Coach Cole and the QBs

[CelticCat]

I think a lot of the criticism or suggestions to move Murray is simply based on the notion that we would’ve been a playoff team with more competent QB play last year. I think a lot of fans feel that way, especially since we finally seem to want to play defense again. They look at the passing stats for Murray and just imagine a what if scenario with a better passing QB.

It’s not bad logic necessarily but it completely discounts what Murray can and has done on his feet.

I think even the average low IQ fan can see Murray spins a decent ball, but that doesn’t do much good if you are late with your reads or miss them completely. I have faith he will come out of the gate next year looking much better, but I’ll wait and see if he can sustain that improvement for a whole season, or revert back to his bad habits.

But seriously, no one else on the roster is better than Murray. The one guy who had a chance was Jonsen but he’s way behind the ball now, he’s going to have to look like the 2nd coming of Armanti Edwards if Murray is going to lose his job.


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[HelenaCat95]

Don't forget that this will be the 2nd year with Murray at the helm and the same OC as last year.

Murray's first year the bulk of the offense installed was built around Bruggman's skill set - with Messingham as OC (they adapted to Murray during the season....but that's not a lot of time to get adequate reps). Last year was built around Murray, and the terminology and style will be the same this year.

If Murray can get better at reading coverages, and trust his arm to throw to the middle of the field, he will have a very good season.

[Cledus]

I think a lot of the criticism or suggestions to move Murray is simply based on the notion that we would’ve been a playoff team with more competent QB play last year. I think a lot of fans feel that way, especially since we finally seem to want to play defense again. They look at the passing stats for Murray and just imagine a what if scenario with a better passing QB.

It’s not bad logic necessarily but it completely discounts what Murray can and has done on his feet.

I think even the average low IQ fan can see Murray spins a decent ball, but that doesn’t do much good if you are late with your reads or miss them completely. I have faith he will come out of the gate next year looking much better, but I’ll wait and see if he can sustain that improvement for a whole season, or revert back to his bad habits.

But seriously, no one else on the roster is better than Murray. The one guy who had a chance was Jonsen but he’s way behind the ball now, he’s going to have to look like the 2nd coming of Armanti Edwards if Murray is going to lose his job.


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I would add that it's a position where we have a lot of upside potential.

As far as games we could have won with better passing play, there are a few games that might have swung our way with better kicking. Let's be honest here, Peppenger wasn't good from beyond 30 yards.

[BLACKnBLUEnGOLD]

Is having a good qb a key to success? Yes.
Is the qb position the most important in football? Yes.
Does a qb need to have big pass numbers to win? Absolutely not.

Philadelphia just won SB with backup Foles. Two years before that the Broncos with a dilapidated Peyton Manning. Ravens won with Flacco, Tampa with Johnson, Ravens with Dilfer. Same is true in college. The teams on that list all won primarily with great defenses and good running attacks.

Oh come on. This isn't 1970. Nobody good is building a team around running the ball anymore. The Eagles team you're talking about ran 198 offensive plays in the playoffs. 109 of them were pass plays, against only 89 runs, despite the fact that they were undefeated (and presumably called a more conservative offense late in games to keep the clock running.) First downs are the key to any offense, and those same Eagles gained 50 first downs by passing in the playoffs, compared to 21 by running.

The Broncos team you mentioned ran 192 offensive plays in the playoffs, 101 passes and 91 runs, despite winning every game and also despite having a quarterback who was about 40 and on the wrong side of what was basically a career-ending neck injury. They gained 26 of their first downs by passing and only 12 rushing. The Flacco-led team you mentioned actually called more runs than passes (139 vs 132) and again, they won all of those games. They also still had more than twice as many first downs passing (53 vs 25). Bottom line, this 2018 and in 2018 the productive part of the offense on all good teams is the passing game. It's even true in the NFL, which is actually about ten years behind the college game in terms of becoming pass-happy.

The other two examples you gave were 20 years ago or something. You might as well be talking about Pitt's last national championship team, in terms of how relevant it is to the modern college game. To be a playoff team that can compete for a national championship, the Bobcats need to pass the ball effectively, period.

The problem I have with the criticism of Murray is that I feel like he hasn't been afforded the slack that past QBs have. The guy is a freshman of the year in the big sky playing like 5 games. He has beat the Griz twice in two tries. He has made us competitive against some very good teams. He started as a 17 year old freshman and has consistently shown improvement. And yet people are looking everywhere they possibly can for his replacement. Move him to WR!! Let Jonsen(who hasn't shown anything) or Rovig(who's shown nearly nothing) start, they can pass! It would have been blasphemy if anyone had suggested the same about Lulay, McGhee or Prukop.

You're comparing Murray to probably the three best QBs in Bobcat history. Certainly the three most productive. Each of them had proven themselves by their second year starting far more than Murray had. Out of those six seasons (two for each QB), only Lulay's 2003 was less efficient than Murray's 2017 year passing. None of them had a year as bad as Murray's 2016. Those six seasons also yielded five playoff appearances, while Murray has yet to lead the Bobcats to the playoffs.

Before Lulay, McGhee, and Prukop had proven themselves, they absolutely had doubters. There were definitely people who didn't think Tyler Thomas should be replaced by a Freshman--I might easily have been among them, except I was a doubter of Tyler Thomas. McGhee was a complete unknown, and there were definitely people who didn't think he was any good. As for Prukop, during the winter before he won the starting job, I found myself wondering, and doubting, whether he would ever live up to his billing as a recruit. Even during the spring I was skeptical. And I was not alone.

Bottom line, the Cats did not need an improvement from their passing game under Lulay, McGhee, and Prukop. They need one now. I diagree with anyone dismissing the possibility of that improvement coming from Murray. But, I also disagree with anyone who dismisses the idea that the improvement could come from a change at QB.

[technoCat]

Oh BnBnG, I think you might have had on the gold colored glasses during the reign of those 3 qbs. Note that I love each one and wouldn't have traded them but they made many MANY mistakes that cost our teams wins and playoff appearances. Lulay didn't even make the playoffs his final two years(one of which was his best passing year). McGhee disappeared twice in the playoffs and was like clockwork throwing bad interceptions early in games against good teams. Prukop put up huge numbers rallying against teams but could never get over the hump when we actually were in a position to lead. Look at the UND game, he had something like 3 or 4 drives with a chance to take the lead and failed. Everyone blames the defense but they made stops.

My point is not to razz on these guys, they were amazing. My point is that just because they had better passing numbers, doesn't mean they were more effective.

[91catAlum]

Is having a good qb a key to success? Yes.
Is the qb position the most important in football? Yes.
Does a qb need to have big pass numbers to win? Absolutely not.

Philadelphia just won SB with backup Foles. Two years before that the Broncos with a dilapidated Peyton Manning. Ravens won with Flacco, Tampa with Johnson, Ravens with Dilfer. Same is true in college. The teams on that list all won primarily with great defenses and good running attacks.

Oh come on. This isn't 1970. Nobody good is building a team around running the ball anymore. The Eagles team you're talking about ran 198 offensive plays in the playoffs. 109 of them were pass plays, against only 89 runs, despite the fact that they were undefeated (and presumably called a more conservative offense late in games to keep the clock running.) First downs are the key to any offense, and those same Eagles gained 50 first downs by passing in the playoffs, compared to 21 by running.

The Broncos team you mentioned ran 192 offensive plays in the playoffs, 101 passes and 91 runs, despite winning every game and also despite having a quarterback who was about 40 and on the wrong side of what was basically a career-ending neck injury. They gained 26 of their first downs by passing and only 12 rushing. The Flacco-led team you mentioned actually called more runs than passes (139 vs 132) and again, they won all of those games. They also still had more than twice as many first downs passing (53 vs 25). Bottom line, this 2018 and in 2018 the productive part of the offense on all good teams is the passing game. It's even true in the NFL, which is actually about ten years behind the college game in terms of becoming pass-happy.

The other two examples you gave were 20 years ago or something. You might as well be talking about Pitt's last national championship team, in terms of how relevant it is to the modern college game. To be a playoff team that can compete for a national championship, the Bobcats need to pass the ball effectively, period.

The problem I have with the criticism of Murray is that I feel like he hasn't been afforded the slack that past QBs have. The guy is a freshman of the year in the big sky playing like 5 games. He has beat the Griz twice in two tries. He has made us competitive against some very good teams. He started as a 17 year old freshman and has consistently shown improvement. And yet people are looking everywhere they possibly can for his replacement. Move him to WR!! Let Jonsen(who hasn't shown anything) or Rovig(who's shown nearly nothing) start, they can pass! It would have been blasphemy if anyone had suggested the same about Lulay, McGhee or Prukop.

You're comparing Murray to probably the three best QBs in Bobcat history. Certainly the three most productive. Each of them had proven themselves by their second year starting far more than Murray had. Out of those six seasons (two for each QB), only Lulay's 2003 was less efficient than Murray's 2017 year passing. None of them had a year as bad as Murray's 2016. Those six seasons also yielded five playoff appearances, while Murray has yet to lead the Bobcats to the playoffs.

Before Lulay, McGhee, and Prukop had proven themselves, they absolutely had doubters. There were definitely people who didn't think Tyler Thomas should be replaced by a Freshman--I might easily have been among them, except I was a doubter of Tyler Thomas. McGhee was a complete unknown, and there were definitely people who didn't think he was any good. As for Prukop, during the winter before he won the starting job, I found myself wondering, and doubting, whether he would ever live up to his billing as a recruit. Even during the spring I was skeptical. And I was not alone.

Bottom line, the Cats did not need an improvement from their passing game under Lulay, McGhee, and Prukop. They need one now. I diagree with anyone dismissing the possibility of that improvement coming from Murray. But, I also disagree with anyone who dismisses the idea that the improvement could come from a change at QB.

Not saying I disagree with you, but your stats would be much more relevant if you did them for Ndsu and JMU the last few years, rather than the Philly Eagles and Denver Broncos.

[Buckaroo Bonzi]

As a 19 year old JR, Chris has matured since his 17 year old Fr season . He has the tools . If he can
gain the confidence in his passing game that he has in his running game , he will be real good. I
think Coach Cole will help with that, a lot this Season.

[The MICKSTER]

Last year the Cats were better at QB (Murray) than the year before (Brugmann & Murray). In 2018 the Cats will be better at QB (Murray/Jonsen) than last year. I say this for several reasons.

1. Murray has shown noticeable improvement from his Freshman year to his Sophomore year, there is no reason to believe that in his Junior year this year, that progress won’t continue.
2. Improvement will continue not only because he has another year of maturity under his belt but this will be his 2nd year under OC Armstrong…….more consistency.
3. He’ll have a ‘deeper’ OL in front of him.
4. Better coaching….this isn’t meant to be a dig on McGhee, but Bob Cole’s been around for a long time and I suspect his mentoring of the QB’s in 2018 will be an improvement.
5. I know we haven’t seen Travis Jonsen take the field in a Bobcat uniform, but he definitely has talent and that will push Murray whether or not he wins the starting job…..I’m not counting Jonsen out just yet.
6. I know we lost Bignell, McCabe, Garcia, Alley & some others, but I think the 2018 MSU defense will be superior to last years, which just makes it easier for whomever is QB.

I’m confident we’ll either have an improved Murray, OR, Jonsen who won the starting job. GO CATS!

[BLACKnBLUEnGOLD]

Not saying I disagree with you, but your stats would be much more relevant if you did them for Ndsu and JMU the last few years, rather than the Philly Eagles and Denver Broncos.

I was just replying to what the other guy wrote. I probably wouldn't have bothered, but the stats were easy to find. I hate research.

[Cat Grad]

As much as I love watching Chris Murray play, I firmly believe Beltran will be starting either three or four games into the season.

[Hi-Line Bobcat]

Beltran didn't have a single division one offer to play football and considering Chris has started for two years in a row, I just don't see that happening. Maybe you have watched the Beltran play and you have some inside information, but looking at the highlights and the paper on this kid, I couldn't fathom him starting over Murray.

[autocat]

Cat Grad, STOP, go to egriz! & then go to MO Club in missoula & polish hauck's shoes!

[Cat Grad]

Josh Allen didn't have any offers. I watched Mercury Morris run all over the Cats. His college coach was looking at film sent to him for another player and asked about this other kid he noticed--Mercury Morris. College coaches often see something in a kid that fits their style of athlete better than the kids the high coaches are shopping. He's a student of the game like Lane Kiffin an Weis, Jr. but he's also coachable. He will be prepared.

[catsrback76]

Josh Allen didn't have any offers. I watched Mercury Morris run all over the Cats. His college coach was looking at film sent to him for another player and asked about this other kid he noticed--Mercury Morris. College coaches often see something in a kid that fits their style of athlete better than the kids the high coaches are shopping. He's a student of the game like Lane Kiffin an Weis, Jr. but he's also coachable. He will be prepared.

What about Danny Woodhead??? He killed us and everyone else he played against and he was only 4'3" tall!

[Cat Grad]

Josh Allen didn't have any offers. I watched Mercury Morris run all over the Cats. His college coach was looking at film sent to him for another player and asked about this other kid he noticed--Mercury Morris. College coaches often see something in a kid that fits their style of athlete better than the kids the high coaches are shopping. He's a student of the game like Lane Kiffin an Weis, Jr. but he's also coachable. He will be prepared.

What about Danny Woodhead??? He killed us and everyone else he played against and he was only 4'3" tall!

Very true. I was alluding to kids who attend camps, college coaches notice on film highlighting other kids getting a chance as with Beltran. He actually reminds me of a smarter version of Vernon Adams in some of the film.

The Cats recovered from that butt whipping by Woodhead and made the playoffs that year, right?

Woodhead played with a pretty big chip on his shoulder. Sonny Holland and Sonny Lubic recruited a lot of the same type kids.

[catatac]

As much as I love watching Chris Murray play, I firmly believe Beltran will be starting either three or four games into the season.

God I hope not because the only way that happens IMO is if.......... not even gonna type it.

[BozoneCat]

As much as I love watching Chris Murray play, I firmly believe Beltran will be starting either three or four games into the season.

God I hope not because the only way that happens IMO is if.......... not even gonna type it.

I'll go ahead and say it. The only way that happens is if... Beltran drives himself to the game and the 4 QB's above him on the depth chart book their flight with Allegiant.

[autocat]

C'mon cat grad, what do you know Beltran that nobody else does? That statement about him starting after a couple games is foolish, are you related to him, did you coach him, did you even attend MSU? So you watched one video on him like everyone else and that's you're conclusion?

[TomCat88]

C'mon cat grad, what do you know Beltran that nobody else does? That statement about him starting after a couple games is foolish, are you related to him, did you coach him, did you even attend MSU? So you watched one video on him like everyone else and that's you're conclusion?

I’m hearing similar things as Cat Grad.

[Buckaroo Bonzi]

C'mon cat grad, what do you know Beltran that nobody else does? That statement about him starting after a couple games is foolish, are you related to him, did you coach him, did you even attend MSU? So you watched one video on him like everyone else and that's you're conclusion?

I’m hearing similar things as Cat Grad.

Do tell