Craig Haley's FCS QB's to Watch in 2018

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luckyirishguy25
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Re: Craig Haley's FCS QB's to Watch in 2018

Post by luckyirishguy25 » Fri May 18, 2018 3:14 pm

Cataholic wrote:
1984TwoMinutesHate wrote:
85CatGrad wrote:
1984TwoMinutesHate wrote:
PapaG wrote:
Cat Grad wrote: Not about to argue for any reason. I'll simply state the majority of those 5600 yards came from garbage and pad the stats times of the game. Chris Murray, as a sophomore, equaled the one stat that mattered by a senior: a 5-6 won-loss record. He has two more years of eligibility ahead of him and his senior year, he'll be one year younger than the kid who left for Oregon, right? I think Chris Murray has a tremendous upside ahead of him and with an experienced OL and dependable receivers his passing will obviously be better.

Go back and look at how many dropped passes the Cats had the last two years.
What was Prukop's record as a starter? Thanks in advance.
Q: Did Prukop play within an air-it-out offensive scheme conducive to putting up big statistics?
A: Yes

Q: How many big games that actually mattered did Prukop win as a Bobcat?
A: 0

Q: How many times did Prukop get his ass whooped by the griz?
A: Every time he faced them
Come on man. Do you really believe that's a fair assessment? Prukop was a very good quarterback and did the best he could with the tools he had. Very few FCS quarterbacks could have done better in that situation. End of story. Time to let go and move on.
Yes, I believe it's a very fair assessment. I'm not saying Prukop was a bad QB. In fact, I think he had a lot of physical potential and could've been one of the great Bobcat QBs of all time. He even managed to become an FCS All-American in 2015, despite amassing most of his statistics in "garbage time" against sub-par Big Sky defenses. But it's still a shame he didn't finish his career as a Bobcat.

My point in that post raises the question of how do we best assess QBs? We live in a sports world obsessed with player statistics. I'd argue these statistics are severely overemphasized in evaluating players, especially QBs. I believe Choate is a believer in this concept as well, which is one of the reasons he's becoming a great head coach.

Gawdy offensive statistics was the great hoax of the Ash era, in my opinion. Big numbers, but never any big wins. NEVER BIG WINS!!

My main point is that Prukop never won a single big game as a starting Bobcat QB (or any college team's starting QB I don't believe), despite his superior ability & potential. This is a very important fact that can't be ignored. This manifested itself against the Griz both times he played them. Big time QBs play their best in big games. If not, you're not a big time QB.

Fortunately, Murray is 2-0 against the Griz & will likely be an FCS All-American this season (at the ATHLETE position, if they allow it).

But in the end, what matters are Bobcat wins & losses. Not individual player fantasy football statistics.
Blaming Prukop for never winning the big games is dumb. He played when MSU had two of the worst defenses in the history of MSU football. Defenses lost those games, not the quarterback.
Agreed, if we had anything resembling a Defense those two years Rob Ash would still be HC.



onceacat
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Re: Craig Haley's FCS QB's to Watch in 2018

Post by onceacat » Fri May 18, 2018 5:35 pm

I wonder how Chris Murray's numbers would look if he had JP Flynn on his offensive line and Beau Sandland at TE.

Everything everyone has said here is true: Prukop was an all time Bobcat great who ALSO couldn't quite seem to put together a big win.

Murray will be the same age next season that Pru was the first time Pru started. If Murray isn't hitting in the high 50s with 7-8 yards per attempt, we are going to have a tough year. If he can hit 60% and 8 ypa, the Cats are probably a lock for a seed in the playoffs.



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Re: Craig Haley's FCS QB's to Watch in 2018

Post by TomCat88 » Fri May 18, 2018 10:22 pm

onceacat wrote:I wonder how Chris Murray's numbers would look if he had JP Flynn on his offensive line and Beau Sandland at TE.

Everything everyone has said here is true: Prukop was an all time Bobcat great who ALSO couldn't quite seem to put together a big win.

Murray will be the same age next season that Pru was the first time Pru started. If Murray isn't hitting in the high 50s with 7-8 yards per attempt, we are going to have a tough year. If he can hit 60% and 8 ypa, the Cats are probably a lock for a seed in the playoffs.
I think MSU will be considerably better on defense and in the run game. I don’t think Murray will make as big of a step as he made last year, but he’ll be better. If those three things are true, MSU will be in the hunt.


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1984TwoMinutesHate
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Re: Craig Haley's FCS QB's to Watch in 2018

Post by 1984TwoMinutesHate » Sat May 19, 2018 7:10 am

luckyirishguy25 wrote:
Cataholic wrote:
1984TwoMinutesHate wrote:
85CatGrad wrote:
1984TwoMinutesHate wrote:
PapaG wrote:
Cat Grad wrote: Not about to argue for any reason. I'll simply state the majority of those 5600 yards came from garbage and pad the stats times of the game. Chris Murray, as a sophomore, equaled the one stat that mattered by a senior: a 5-6 won-loss record. He has two more years of eligibility ahead of him and his senior year, he'll be one year younger than the kid who left for Oregon, right? I think Chris Murray has a tremendous upside ahead of him and with an experienced OL and dependable receivers his passing will obviously be better.

Go back and look at how many dropped passes the Cats had the last two years.
What was Prukop's record as a starter? Thanks in advance.
Q: Did Prukop play within an air-it-out offensive scheme conducive to putting up big statistics?
A: Yes

Q: How many big games that actually mattered did Prukop win as a Bobcat?
A: 0

Q: How many times did Prukop get his ass whooped by the griz?
A: Every time he faced them
Come on man. Do you really believe that's a fair assessment? Prukop was a very good quarterback and did the best he could with the tools he had. Very few FCS quarterbacks could have done better in that situation. End of story. Time to let go and move on.
Yes, I believe it's a very fair assessment. I'm not saying Prukop was a bad QB. In fact, I think he had a lot of physical potential and could've been one of the great Bobcat QBs of all time. He even managed to become an FCS All-American in 2015, despite amassing most of his statistics in "garbage time" against sub-par Big Sky defenses. But it's still a shame he didn't finish his career as a Bobcat.

My point in that post raises the question of how do we best assess QBs? We live in a sports world obsessed with player statistics. I'd argue these statistics are severely overemphasized in evaluating players, especially QBs. I believe Choate is a believer in this concept as well, which is one of the reasons he's becoming a great head coach.

Gawdy offensive statistics was the great hoax of the Ash era, in my opinion. Big numbers, but never any big wins. NEVER BIG WINS!!

My main point is that Prukop never won a single big game as a starting Bobcat QB (or any college team's starting QB I don't believe), despite his superior ability & potential. This is a very important fact that can't be ignored. This manifested itself against the Griz both times he played them. Big time QBs play their best in big games. If not, you're not a big time QB.

Fortunately, Murray is 2-0 against the Griz & will likely be an FCS All-American this season (at the ATHLETE position, if they allow it).

But in the end, what matters are Bobcat wins & losses. Not individual player fantasy football statistics.
Blaming Prukop for never winning the big games is dumb. He played when MSU had two of the worst defenses in the history of MSU football. Defenses lost those games, not the quarterback.
Agreed, if we had anything resembling a Defense those two years Rob Ash would still be HC.
The problem with that statement is that Ash WAS the reason we didn't have a defense.



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1984TwoMinutesHate
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Re: Craig Haley's FCS QB's to Watch in 2018

Post by 1984TwoMinutesHate » Sat May 19, 2018 7:14 am

91catAlum wrote:
1984TwoMinutesHate wrote:
85CatGrad wrote:
1984TwoMinutesHate wrote:
PapaG wrote:
Cat Grad wrote: Not about to argue for any reason. I'll simply state the majority of those 5600 yards came from garbage and pad the stats times of the game. Chris Murray, as a sophomore, equaled the one stat that mattered by a senior: a 5-6 won-loss record. He has two more years of eligibility ahead of him and his senior year, he'll be one year younger than the kid who left for Oregon, right? I think Chris Murray has a tremendous upside ahead of him and with an experienced OL and dependable receivers his passing will obviously be better.

Go back and look at how many dropped passes the Cats had the last two years.
What was Prukop's record as a starter? Thanks in advance.
Q: Did Prukop play within an air-it-out offensive scheme conducive to putting up big statistics?
A: Yes

Q: How many big games that actually mattered did Prukop win as a Bobcat?
A: 0

Q: How many times did Prukop get his ass whooped by the griz?
A: Every time he faced them
Come on man. Do you really believe that's a fair assessment? Prukop was a very good quarterback and did the best he could with the tools he had. Very few FCS quarterbacks could have done better in that situation. End of story. Time to let go and move on.
Yes, I believe it's a very fair assessment. I'm not saying Prukop was a bad QB. In fact, I think he had a lot of physical potential and could've been one of the great Bobcat QBs of all time. He even managed to become an FCS All-American in 2015, despite amassing most of his statistics in "garbage time" against sub-par Big Sky defenses. But it's still a shame he didn't finish his career as a Bobcat.

My point in that post raises the question of how do we best assess QBs? We live in a sports world obsessed with player statistics. I'd argue these statistics are severely overemphasized in evaluating players, especially QBs. I believe Choate is a believer in this concept as well, which is one of the reasons he's becoming a great head coach.

Gawdy offensive statistics was the great hoax of the Ash era, in my opinion. Big numbers, but never any big wins. NEVER BIG WINS!!

My main point is that Prukop never won a single big game as a starting Bobcat QB (or any college team's starting QB I don't believe), despite his superior ability & potential. This is a very important fact that can't be ignored. This manifested itself against the Griz both times he played them. Big time QBs play their best in big games. If not, you're not a big time QB.

Fortunately, Murray is 2-0 against the Griz & will likely be an FCS All-American this season (at the ATHLETE position, if they allow it).

But in the end, what matters are Bobcat wins & losses. Not individual player fantasy football statistics.
Again - Prukop played the griz one time, in Rob Ash's last game in 2015 in Bozeman. That's it. It's hard to lose to the griz twice when you only play them once.
Prukop missed the 2014 griz game due to injury, Bleskin started that one.
10-4, good point. I forgot that Prukop was a Cat-Griz no show in 2014. Which raises another question in the Murray vs Prukop debate in my mind...

Q: How many games has Murray missed due to injury?
A: 0



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Re: Craig Haley's FCS QB's to Watch in 2018

Post by allcat » Sat May 19, 2018 7:17 am

1984TwoMinutesHate wrote:
91catAlum wrote:
1984TwoMinutesHate wrote:
85CatGrad wrote:
1984TwoMinutesHate wrote:
PapaG wrote:
Cat Grad wrote: Not about to argue for any reason. I'll simply state the majority of those 5600 yards came from garbage and pad the stats times of the game. Chris Murray, as a sophomore, equaled the one stat that mattered by a senior: a 5-6 won-loss record. He has two more years of eligibility ahead of him and his senior year, he'll be one year younger than the kid who left for Oregon, right? I think Chris Murray has a tremendous upside ahead of him and with an experienced OL and dependable receivers his passing will obviously be better.

Go back and look at how many dropped passes the Cats had the last two years.
What was Prukop's record as a starter? Thanks in advance.
Q: Did Prukop play within an air-it-out offensive scheme conducive to putting up big statistics?
A: Yes

Q: How many big games that actually mattered did Prukop win as a Bobcat?
A: 0

Q: How many times did Prukop get his ass whooped by the griz?
A: Every time he faced them
Come on man. Do you really believe that's a fair assessment? Prukop was a very good quarterback and did the best he could with the tools he had. Very few FCS quarterbacks could have done better in that situation. End of story. Time to let go and move on.
Yes, I believe it's a very fair assessment. I'm not saying Prukop was a bad QB. In fact, I think he had a lot of physical potential and could've been one of the great Bobcat QBs of all time. He even managed to become an FCS All-American in 2015, despite amassing most of his statistics in "garbage time" against sub-par Big Sky defenses. But it's still a shame he didn't finish his career as a Bobcat.

My point in that post raises the question of how do we best assess QBs? We live in a sports world obsessed with player statistics. I'd argue these statistics are severely overemphasized in evaluating players, especially QBs. I believe Choate is a believer in this concept as well, which is one of the reasons he's becoming a great head coach.

Gawdy offensive statistics was the great hoax of the Ash era, in my opinion. Big numbers, but never any big wins. NEVER BIG WINS!!

My main point is that Prukop never won a single big game as a starting Bobcat QB (or any college team's starting QB I don't believe), despite his superior ability & potential. This is a very important fact that can't be ignored. This manifested itself against the Griz both times he played them. Big time QBs play their best in big games. If not, you're not a big time QB.

Fortunately, Murray is 2-0 against the Griz & will likely be an FCS All-American this season (at the ATHLETE position, if they allow it).

But in the end, what matters are Bobcat wins & losses. Not individual player fantasy football statistics.
Again - Prukop played the griz one time, in Rob Ash's last game in 2015 in Bozeman. That's it. It's hard to lose to the griz twice when you only play them once.
Prukop missed the 2014 griz game due to injury, Bleskin started that one.
10-4, good point. I forgot that Prukop was a Cat-Griz no show in 2014. Which raises another question in the Murray vs Prukop debate in my mind...

Q: How many games has Murray missed due to injury?
A: 0
This is a new low even for you. Knock on the guy because he was injured. What should we do if someone gets an injury, shoot them?


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onceacat
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Re: Craig Haley's FCS QB's to Watch in 2018

Post by onceacat » Sat May 19, 2018 9:17 am

allcat wrote:
1984TwoMinutesHate wrote:
91catAlum wrote:
1984TwoMinutesHate wrote:
85CatGrad wrote:
1984TwoMinutesHate wrote:
PapaG wrote:
Cat Grad wrote: Not about to argue for any reason. I'll simply state the majority of those 5600 yards came from garbage and pad the stats times of the game. Chris Murray, as a sophomore, equaled the one stat that mattered by a senior: a 5-6 won-loss record. He has two more years of eligibility ahead of him and his senior year, he'll be one year younger than the kid who left for Oregon, right? I think Chris Murray has a tremendous upside ahead of him and with an experienced OL and dependable receivers his passing will obviously be better.

Go back and look at how many dropped passes the Cats had the last two years.
What was Prukop's record as a starter? Thanks in advance.
Q: Did Prukop play within an air-it-out offensive scheme conducive to putting up big statistics?
A: Yes

Q: How many big games that actually mattered did Prukop win as a Bobcat?
A: 0

Q: How many times did Prukop get his ass whooped by the griz?
A: Every time he faced them
Come on man. Do you really believe that's a fair assessment? Prukop was a very good quarterback and did the best he could with the tools he had. Very few FCS quarterbacks could have done better in that situation. End of story. Time to let go and move on.
Yes, I believe it's a very fair assessment. I'm not saying Prukop was a bad QB. In fact, I think he had a lot of physical potential and could've been one of the great Bobcat QBs of all time. He even managed to become an FCS All-American in 2015, despite amassing most of his statistics in "garbage time" against sub-par Big Sky defenses. But it's still a shame he didn't finish his career as a Bobcat.

My point in that post raises the question of how do we best assess QBs? We live in a sports world obsessed with player statistics. I'd argue these statistics are severely overemphasized in evaluating players, especially QBs. I believe Choate is a believer in this concept as well, which is one of the reasons he's becoming a great head coach.

Gawdy offensive statistics was the great hoax of the Ash era, in my opinion. Big numbers, but never any big wins. NEVER BIG WINS!!

My main point is that Prukop never won a single big game as a starting Bobcat QB (or any college team's starting QB I don't believe), despite his superior ability & potential. This is a very important fact that can't be ignored. This manifested itself against the Griz both times he played them. Big time QBs play their best in big games. If not, you're not a big time QB.

Fortunately, Murray is 2-0 against the Griz & will likely be an FCS All-American this season (at the ATHLETE position, if they allow it).

But in the end, what matters are Bobcat wins & losses. Not individual player fantasy football statistics.
Again - Prukop played the griz one time, in Rob Ash's last game in 2015 in Bozeman. That's it. It's hard to lose to the griz twice when you only play them once.
Prukop missed the 2014 griz game due to injury, Bleskin started that one.
10-4, good point. I forgot that Prukop was a Cat-Griz no show in 2014. Which raises another question in the Murray vs Prukop debate in my mind...

Q: How many games has Murray missed due to injury?
A: 0
This is a new low even for you. Knock on the guy because he was injured. What should we do if someone gets an injury, shoot them?
Yep. Tough to blame a kid for an injury. Besides, he came back and played a really solid game the next week (2 weeks later?) against SDSU, which was probably the best D the Cats played in Prukop's 2 seasons. If the Cats had been able to put a hat on Zach Zenner's hat, they would have had a chance.

There are plenty of legitimate criticisms of Prukop, but toughness isn't one of them.



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