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Cataholic
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by Cataholic » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:02 pm
91catAlum wrote:GoldstoneCat wrote:Cledus wrote:catsrback76 wrote:BelgradeBobcat wrote:coloradocat wrote:Anyone know if DMac is always up in the box? Murray kept fighting the whole game but he didn't look like a bench leader at all and I'm wondering if the 18yo needs more in-person attention/guidance when he's not on the field.
Can't say I was paying too close attention, but I seem to recall DMac on the sideline at EWU and talking to Murray quite a bit-as well as warming him up before the game and after halftime. Maybe they changed things up because that didn't seem to be working. Maybe there were too many people talking to him.
That's what I was thinking. Murray may not be able to process everything that DMac throws at him in a game situation. He might vapour lock on too much attention. At any rate, that is an interesting observation because in all the previous games DMac has been very animated and obvious on the sidelines. Hmmmmm, what is in the air???
I feel like the coaching staff is just trying to grind through and survive the season with Murray. He’s too good an athlete and too talented to be on the bench, but he is not a passer. Unless he makes some serious strides, I do not believe he will be our starting QB next year.
I actually, oddly, thought he threw it ok yesterday. Some balls still fluttered, but he actually ripped a couple in there as well. Obviously, you can't make the mistakes with the picks, but 20-35 for 222 is good enough from him without the turnovers. I still think there's enough there to keep working for him. Having the guy out there that can score on his own from anywhere, anytime, is the great equalizer.
Great point! If Murray can manage anything close to 20/35 for 220 each game, minus the turnovers, we'll be just fine.
I am afraid these stats are misleading. There must have been 10 additional pass plays where Murray dropped back but decided to run. These show up as run plays and not in the pass statistics.
There is no question that Chris can throw the ball. He has a great arm and reasonable accuracy. The issue is his execution and decision making. There were multiple occasions yesterday where he threw the ball late. Some of these were still completions, but the receiver was clearly open earlier. Other times he is just making the wrong read where a receiver is open and Chris does not see the guy. He gets happy feet and runs. We need to let him develop but my patience is running thin as he now has a full year of in game action under his belt. There were plenty of open receivers yesterday, he just is not picking up on them quickly enough
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91catAlum
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by 91catAlum » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:18 pm
utucats wrote:BobCatFan wrote:I have been very quiet on this board for a long time. I will say it now. We need a new head coach. You cant win in the big sky with a running style office. Currently, I am not sure what they are running and that is problem. It is not a pure running game and it certainly is not a passing game. It is what it is. Just bad designed on the offense side of the ball. That is a coaching problem. I hope after next year, we can get a new coach.
Now would be a good time to go back to being very quiet on this board.
Lol, gotta say I agree.
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BigBruceBaker
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by BigBruceBaker » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:23 pm
BobCatFan wrote:I have been very quiet on this board for a long time. I will say it now. We need a new head coach. You cant win in the big sky with a running style office. Currently, I am not sure what they are running and that is problem. It is not a pure running game and it certainly is not a passing game. It is what it is. Just bad designed on the offense side of the ball. That is a coaching problem. I hope after next year, we can get a new coach.
Completely agree. Running style offices are not productive. Can't even get a decent donut and coffee in that bullspit of a cubicle.
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BleedingBLue
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by BleedingBLue » Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:01 pm
BigBruceBaker wrote:BobCatFan wrote:I have been very quiet on this board for a long time. I will say it now. We need a new head coach. You cant win in the big sky with a running style office. Currently, I am not sure what they are running and that is problem. It is not a pure running game and it certainly is not a passing game. It is what it is. Just bad designed on the offense side of the ball. That is a coaching problem. I hope after next year, we can get a new coach.
Completely agree. Running style offices are not productive. Can't even get a decent donut and coffee in that bullspit of a cubicle.
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topey711
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by topey711 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:21 pm
You absolutely can win the Big Sky with a quality running team. Best defense against these spread hurry up teams? Ball control offense. Do we need more balance? Yes, but we're still building towards that style. It's not as if Big Sky teams have been dominant in the playoffs either so who wants to have a spread offense that just fizzles in the playoffs. You know, in November when the weather is crap....... You think NDSU wouldn't have won 5 in a row playing that style in the Big Sky? Please.......
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Caboose
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by Caboose » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:50 pm
utucats wrote:BobCatFan wrote:I have been very quiet on this board for a long time. I will say it now. We need a new head coach. You cant win in the big sky with a running style office. Currently, I am not sure what they are running and that is problem. It is not a pure running game and it certainly is not a passing game. It is what it is. Just bad designed on the offense side of the ball. That is a coaching problem. I hope after next year, we can get a new coach.
Now would be a good time to go back to being very quiet on this board.
Best post ever lol
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CelticCat
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by CelticCat » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:36 am
I'm not going to lie, during the game was thinking to myself that maybe this Chris Murray experiment needs to come to an end. But he did just enough in that 4th quarter to pacify me for another game, but I don't know what our ceiling is with him under center.
It seemed earlier in the year that maybe he was indeed turning into a good passing quarterback. He looked great against SDSU and UND, but went back to the Chris Murray we saw last year against Weber, PSU and EWU.
I think a big part of that is SDSU was not expecting a passing Murray, so we caught them off guard. Same a bit for UND but UND is just awful. By the time we go to Weber, Weber was ready for any type of passing attack from Murray, and the rest of the league isn't surprised.
This year likely wasn't going to be a playoff year no matter who was under center, so there is no point in deviating from Murray at this time. He has a few games left and an offseason to ward off Rovig, IMO. Whoever emerges from that battle next year I think will give us a shot at winning the conference in 2018.
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codecat
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by codecat » Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:39 pm
utucats wrote:BobCatFan wrote:I have been very quiet on this board for a long time. I will say it now. We need a new head coach. You cant win in the big sky with a running style office. Currently, I am not sure what they are running and that is problem. It is not a pure running game and it certainly is not a passing game. It is what it is. Just bad designed on the offense side of the ball. That is a coaching problem. I hope after next year, we can get a new coach.
Now would be a good time to go back to being very quiet on this board.
Perhaps he should, but aren't you the author of "we have arrived"?
London Bridge is falling down, falling down, falling down, London Bridge is falling down, Bye-Bye Fauci!
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codecat
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by codecat » Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:50 pm
topey711 wrote:You absolutely can win the Big Sky with a quality running team. Best defense against these spread hurry up teams? Ball control offense. Do we need more balance? Yes, but we're still building towards that style. It's not as if Big Sky teams have been dominant in the playoffs either so who wants to have a spread offense that just fizzles in the playoffs. You know, in November when the weather is crap....... You think NDSU wouldn't have won 5 in a row playing that style in the Big Sky? Please.......
Good solid post, and i agree, however my doubts from the beginning have been if coach Choate can recruit the kind of OL that he needs for this kind of ball - I hope he can but guess it remains to be seen.
London Bridge is falling down, falling down, falling down, London Bridge is falling down, Bye-Bye Fauci!
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VimSince03
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by VimSince03 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:10 pm
codecat wrote:topey711 wrote:You absolutely can win the Big Sky with a quality running team. Best defense against these spread hurry up teams? Ball control offense. Do we need more balance? Yes, but we're still building towards that style. It's not as if Big Sky teams have been dominant in the playoffs either so who wants to have a spread offense that just fizzles in the playoffs. You know, in November when the weather is crap....... You think NDSU wouldn't have won 5 in a row playing that style in the Big Sky? Please.......
Good solid post, and i agree, however my doubts from the beginning have been if coach Choate can recruit the kind of OL that he needs for this kind of ball - I hope he can but guess it remains to be seen.
Do you doubt the past two recruiting classes because they haven't played yet? Currently two of them have already logged starts...beating out sophomores and juniors in front of them.
Freshman:
Zach Redd
Connor Wood
Brody McKnight
Sean Hatten
Redshirt Freshman:
Taylor Tuiasosopo
Lewis Kidd
Jake Sessions
"There's two times of year for me: Football season, and waiting for football season."
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CelticCat
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by CelticCat » Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:10 pm
codecat wrote:topey711 wrote:You absolutely can win the Big Sky with a quality running team. Best defense against these spread hurry up teams? Ball control offense. Do we need more balance? Yes, but we're still building towards that style. It's not as if Big Sky teams have been dominant in the playoffs either so who wants to have a spread offense that just fizzles in the playoffs. You know, in November when the weather is crap....... You think NDSU wouldn't have won 5 in a row playing that style in the Big Sky? Please.......
Good solid post, and i agree, however my doubts from the beginning have been if coach Choate can recruit the kind of OL that he needs for this kind of ball - I hope he can but guess it remains to be seen.
I think our OL has been playing better and better. Our 4 main running backs (taking out Murray) have rushed for 902 yards on 171 carries, good for 5.27 YPC, which would be the best in the Big Sky on its on. Granted it's hard to know how our running game would be working with a guy like Rovig back there, but I'm not convinced we don't have the OL for it, and so far his OL recruits have looked good to me - one is starting right now as a freshman.
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CelticCat
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by CelticCat » Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:11 pm
VimSince03 wrote:codecat wrote:topey711 wrote:You absolutely can win the Big Sky with a quality running team. Best defense against these spread hurry up teams? Ball control offense. Do we need more balance? Yes, but we're still building towards that style. It's not as if Big Sky teams have been dominant in the playoffs either so who wants to have a spread offense that just fizzles in the playoffs. You know, in November when the weather is crap....... You think NDSU wouldn't have won 5 in a row playing that style in the Big Sky? Please.......
Good solid post, and i agree, however my doubts from the beginning have been if coach Choate can recruit the kind of OL that he needs for this kind of ball - I hope he can but guess it remains to be seen.
Do you doubt the past two recruiting classes because they haven't played yet? Currently two of them have already logged starts...beating out sophomores and juniors in front of them.
Freshman:
Zach Redd
Connor Wood
Brody McKnight
Sean Hatten
Redshirt Freshman:
Taylor Tuiasosopo
Lewis Kidd
Jake Sessions
I agree 100%, but technically wasn't Kidd an Ash recruit?
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codecat
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by codecat » Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:46 pm
CelticCat wrote:codecat wrote:topey711 wrote:You absolutely can win the Big Sky with a quality running team. Best defense against these spread hurry up teams? Ball control offense. Do we need more balance? Yes, but we're still building towards that style. It's not as if Big Sky teams have been dominant in the playoffs either so who wants to have a spread offense that just fizzles in the playoffs. You know, in November when the weather is crap....... You think NDSU wouldn't have won 5 in a row playing that style in the Big Sky? Please.......
Good solid post, and i agree, however my doubts from the beginning have been if coach Choate can recruit the kind of OL that he needs for this kind of ball - I hope he can but guess it remains to be seen.
I think our OL has been playing better and better. Our 4 main running backs (taking out Murray) have rushed for 902 yards on 171 carries, good for 5.27 YPC, which would be the best in the Big Sky on its on. Granted it's hard to know how our running game would be working with a guy like Rovig back there, but I'm not convinced we don't have the OL for it, and so far his OL recruits have looked good to me - one is starting right now as a freshman.
I agree, the OL recruits have been good so far - just a type of ball I haven't seen out of this program in quite a few years, so guess i'm a bit of a doubting Thomas too (for now anyway).
London Bridge is falling down, falling down, falling down, London Bridge is falling down, Bye-Bye Fauci!
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Colter_Nuanez
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by Colter_Nuanez » Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:16 pm
CelticCat wrote:VimSince03 wrote:codecat wrote:topey711 wrote:You absolutely can win the Big Sky with a quality running team. Best defense against these spread hurry up teams? Ball control offense. Do we need more balance? Yes, but we're still building towards that style. It's not as if Big Sky teams have been dominant in the playoffs either so who wants to have a spread offense that just fizzles in the playoffs. You know, in November when the weather is crap....... You think NDSU wouldn't have won 5 in a row playing that style in the Big Sky? Please.......
Good solid post, and i agree, however my doubts from the beginning have been if coach Choate can recruit the kind of OL that he needs for this kind of ball - I hope he can but guess it remains to be seen.
Do you doubt the past two recruiting classes because they haven't played yet? Currently two of them have already logged starts...beating out sophomores and juniors in front of them.
Freshman:
Zach Redd
Connor Wood
Brody McKnight
Sean Hatten
Redshirt Freshman:
Taylor Tuiasosopo
Lewis Kidd
Jake Sessions
I agree 100%, but technically wasn't Kidd an Ash recruit?
No. Kidd was a Gregorak recruit who likely would've gone to Montana had Ty not jumped ship to MSU.
Per this argument, Montana State essentially runs the triple option out of the spread and does it better than anyone in the league, including Cal Poly. The Bobcats currently lead the league in rushing at 252 yards per game, which hasn't seemed possible since Cal Poly joined the league in 2012. And MSU does it with a quarterback who is going to lead the league in rushing individually who also happens to be able to throw for 225 yards to go along with his 110 rushing yards per game. Do you know how hard that is to defend?
Montana State had 519 yards of total offense and nearly 300 rushing against Northern Colorado. If the 'Cats don't turn the ball over a few times and Bryce Alley doesn't fall down on the long play, MSU wins that game by three scores. MSU's biggest strength - relentlessly pounding the rock - will be a fault unless they play turnover-free football. MSU eats up the clock, not allowing the other team to score. But the offense also does not predicate for big plays outside of Murray, so the Cats are eating up their own time to score as well, meaning the point totals will always be lower than a team that piles up 500+ yards of total offense in a game. Murray is far from a finished product and far from a true quarterback, but he's the only QB I've covered, Dakota Prukop included, who can put his foot in the ground and score from 60 yards out consistently. He's not getting benched.
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Buckaroo Bonzi
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by Buckaroo Bonzi » Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:35 pm
Colter_Nuanez wrote:CelticCat wrote:VimSince03 wrote:codecat wrote:topey711 wrote:You absolutely can win the Big Sky with a quality running team. Best defense against these spread hurry up teams? Ball control offense. Do we need more balance? Yes, but we're still building towards that style. It's not as if Big Sky teams have been dominant in the playoffs either so who wants to have a spread offense that just fizzles in the playoffs. You know, in November when the weather is crap....... You think NDSU wouldn't have won 5 in a row playing that style in the Big Sky? Please.......
Good solid post, and i agree, however my doubts from the beginning have been if coach Choate can recruit the kind of OL that he needs for this kind of ball - I hope he can but guess it remains to be seen.
Do you doubt the past two recruiting classes because they haven't played yet? Currently two of them have already logged starts...beating out sophomores and juniors in front of them.
Freshman:
Zach Redd
Connor Wood
Brody McKnight
Sean Hatten
Redshirt Freshman:
Taylor Tuiasosopo
Lewis Kidd
Jake Sessions
I agree 100%, but technically wasn't Kidd an Ash recruit?
No. Kidd was a Gregorak recruit who likely would've gone to Montana had Ty not jumped ship to MSU.
Per this argument, Montana State essentially runs the triple option out of the spread and does it better than anyone in the league, including Cal Poly. The Bobcats currently lead the league in rushing at 252 yards per game, which hasn't seemed possible since Cal Poly joined the league in 2012. And MSU does it with a quarterback who is going to lead the league in rushing individually who also happens to be able to throw for 225 yards to go along with his 110 rushing yards per game. Do you know how hard that is to defend?
Montana State had 519 yards of total offense and nearly 300 rushing against Northern Colorado. If the 'Cats don't turn the ball over a few times and Bryce Alley doesn't fall down on the long play, MSU wins that game by three scores. MSU's biggest strength - relentlessly pounding the rock - will be a fault unless they play turnover-free football. MSU eats up the clock, not allowing the other team to score. But the offense also does not predicate for big plays outside of Murray, so the Cats are eating up their own time to score as well, meaning the point totals will always be lower than a team that piles up 500+ yards of total offense in a game. Murray is far from a finished product and far from a true quarterback, but he's the only QB I've covered, Dakota Prukop included, who can put his foot in the ground and score from 60 yards out consistently. He's not getting benched.
From the film on Chote’s OL recruits, they come with an attitude that gives insight into Chote’s Offensive philosophies.
That was a good post Colter .
Where ever you go , There you are .... Protect the Rock ~ Create TurnOvers ~ Execute on every Play
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codecat
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by codecat » Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:57 pm
VimSince03 wrote:codecat wrote:topey711 wrote:You absolutely can win the Big Sky with a quality running team. Best defense against these spread hurry up teams? Ball control offense. Do we need more balance? Yes, but we're still building towards that style. It's not as if Big Sky teams have been dominant in the playoffs either so who wants to have a spread offense that just fizzles in the playoffs. You know, in November when the weather is crap....... You think NDSU wouldn't have won 5 in a row playing that style in the Big Sky? Please.......
Good solid post, and i agree, however my doubts from the beginning have been if coach Choate can recruit the kind of OL that he needs for this kind of ball - I hope he can but guess it remains to be seen.
Do you doubt the past two recruiting classes because they haven't played yet? Currently two of them have already logged starts...beating out sophomores and juniors in front of them.
Freshman:
Zach Redd
Connor Wood
Brody McKnight
Sean Hatten
Redshirt Freshman:
Taylor Tuiasosopo
Lewis Kidd
Jake Sessions
Choate's recruiting has been awesome, but just because they are starting doesn't mean they have what it takes to pound the ball like coach has said he wants to. If anybody in this league can do it, I'm thinking Choate can, but I'm still going to wait until I see offensive efficiency similar to NDSU before I proclaim it to be a done deal.
London Bridge is falling down, falling down, falling down, London Bridge is falling down, Bye-Bye Fauci!
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topey711
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by topey711 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:13 pm
I'm guessing that Choate wants a balanced attack. Maybe favoring the run a little. Or at least the ability to take advantage of the weakness the opponent shows. I'm personally not sold on the whole spread/50+ passes a game offense. Time and time again I see them fail in the playoffs. Yes , EWU has had some success, but it seems to take having a next level type QB. Yes it's flashy and exciting but how many times in close games has it come down to the ability to hold on to the ball and run the clock out? These type of teams have trouble with that. It always comes down to who has the ball last. If the ultimate goal is to be playing well into November and December, then the weather in Bozeman definitely becomes a factor. You better be able to run the ball. Imagine the PSU game with snow!
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Cledus
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by Cledus » Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:26 pm
topey711 wrote:I'm guessing that Choate wants a balanced attack. Maybe favoring the run a little. Or at least the ability to take advantage of the weakness the opponent shows. I'm personally not sold on the whole spread/50+ passes a game offense. Time and time again I see them fail in the playoffs. Yes , EWU has had some success, but it seems to take having a next level type QB. Yes it's flashy and exciting but how many times in close games has it come down to the ability to hold on to the ball and run the clock out? These type of teams have trouble with that. It always comes down to who has the ball last. If the ultimate goal is to be playing well into November and December, then the weather in Bozeman definitely becomes a factor. You better be able to run the ball. Imagine the PSU game with snow!
I believe Choate wants a downhill running game with big play capabilities, e.g. Washington, Michigan.
Personally, I’m on board with Choate and that kind of offense.
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BelgradeBobcat
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by BelgradeBobcat » Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:35 pm
I just hope they carve out a significant amount of practice time for Murray to throw that fade to Jabarri Johnson in the end zone. Once they get that dialed in I don't think it can be stopped. I don't think we've scratched the surface with Johnson.
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BleedingBLue
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by BleedingBLue » Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:33 pm
Colter's post was great. The only problem is Murray consistently turns the ball over, therefore making our games close, win or lose. I have to believe that if Rovig shows he can run the offense in the spring that we go with the quarterback who can make plays with his arm off the running game. Maybe it's Murray, maybe it's Rovig, maybe it's the incoming freshman (Bauman?). I don't know. But there is no way the coaches go into spring saying Murray is our guy and all the other guys are competing for backup.