New OL Coach

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vike_king
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Re: New OL Coach

Post by vike_king » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:20 pm

GoCats18 wrote:
blueandgoldblitz wrote:Sorry if I've missed it somewhere, but does anyone know how to pronounce his name? I'm thinking Toffa lay lay. Is that even close?

I would just call him Joshua. It is easy and pronounce Joshua!!
Coach,
Sir,
Forgive me for getting in your way.

I can see using any one of those.


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blueandgoldblitz
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Re: New OL Coach

Post by blueandgoldblitz » Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:21 pm

vike_king wrote:
GoCats18 wrote:
blueandgoldblitz wrote:Sorry if I've missed it somewhere, but does anyone know how to pronounce his name? I'm thinking Toffa lay lay. Is that even close?

I would just call him Joshua. It is easy and pronounce Joshua!!
Coach,
Sir,
Forgive me for getting in your way.

I can see using any one of those.
GoCats18 wrote:
blueandgoldblitz wrote:Sorry if I've missed it somewhere, but does anyone know how to pronounce his name? I'm thinking Toffa lay lay. Is that even close?

I would just call him Joshua. It is easy and pronounce Joshua!!
Both good answers! =D^



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wbtfg
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Re: New OL Coach

Post by wbtfg » Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:26 pm

Just don't call him late for dinner


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Re: New OL Coach

Post by PapaG » Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:55 pm

wbtfg wrote:
lutecat wrote:So why did he go from a cc to the UW and then back to the same cc?

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I'd assume $$. He was a grad asst at UW. I think that's basically a volunteer position.


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I assume he was going to grad school at UDub as well?


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Re: New OL Coach

Post by BLACKnBLUEnGOLD » Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:08 am

wbtfg wrote:Also like his recruiting connections with california JC's
Maybe this is just me being way too old-school Montanan, but I'm not a big fan of recruiting California. Seems like we've had a lot less risk and maybe a bit more reward with the Texas guys.

As a coach, though, I love young up and comers, so I'm happy about that. Much better than old guys on their way down.


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iaafan
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Re: New OL Coach

Post by iaafan » Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:32 am

BBG: It all depends on the recruiter. When we had Gaines in Texas, he was hitting it out of the park. Not so much anymore, but with McGhee in the saddle that may change.



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wbtfg
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Re: New OL Coach

Post by wbtfg » Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:55 am

iaafan wrote:BBG: It all depends on the recruiter. When we had Gaines in Texas, he was hitting it out of the park. Not so much anymore, but with McGhee in the saddle that may change.
We've had booms and busts from both states. Our success out of Texas seem to really go downhill after Justin Gaines left.

Also, I feel like Choate and Company have a completely different recruiting strategy than the ash staff. The guys we got out of California this year look to be extremely high character and strong academically.


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Re: New OL Coach

Post by Mr Lisle » Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:30 am

It's reasonable to believe coach Choate will be spending considerable time recruiting the Northwest in general and Washington State in particular. Washington is a hugely under recruited state. With 7 million people and just 2 FBS and one FCS programs there is a huge amount of talent available. Eastern Washington, who call themselves "Washington's Team" listed 68 players from Washington in 2016 and filled in with 13 from California. Fifteen of their 19 2017 signees are from Washington. Choate, a northwest guy..born and raised in Idaho, played in Montana, coached at Washington State, Boise State and Washington is well aware of the Washington potential. From my biased viewpoint...the Cats should out recruit EWU every time. In addition to talent, the Washington players come climatized, are just a day trip by car from home and their families can attend several games around the region.



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Re: New OL Coach

Post by BigBruceBaker » Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:52 am

Mr Lisle wrote:It's reasonable to believe coach Choate will be spending considerable time recruiting the Northwest in general and Washington State in particular. Washington is a hugely under recruited state. With 7 million people and just 2 FBS and one FCS programs there is a huge amount of talent available. Eastern Washington, who call themselves "Washington's Team" listed 68 players from Washington in 2016 and filled in with 13 from California. Fifteen of their 19 2017 signees are from Washington. Choate, a northwest guy..born and raised in Idaho, played in Montana, coached at Washington State, Boise State and Washington is well aware of the Washington potential. From my biased viewpoint...the Cats should out recruit EWU every time. In addition to talent, the Washington players come climatized, are just a day trip by car from home and their families can attend several games around the region.
Excellent post.


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Re: New OL Coach

Post by VimSince03 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:58 am

wbtfg wrote:
iaafan wrote:BBG: It all depends on the recruiter. When we had Gaines in Texas, he was hitting it out of the park. Not so much anymore, but with McGhee in the saddle that may change.
We've had booms and busts from both states. Our success out of Texas seem to really go downhill after Justin Gaines left.

Also, I feel like Choate and Company have a completely different recruiting strategy than the ash staff. The guys we got out of California this year look to be extremely high character and strong academically.


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Here is Texas recruiting since 2011 (updated):

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=37324


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Re: New OL Coach

Post by onceacat » Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:10 am

BigBruceBaker wrote:
Mr Lisle wrote:It's reasonable to believe coach Choate will be spending considerable time recruiting the Northwest in general and Washington State in particular. Washington is a hugely under recruited state. With 7 million people and just 2 FBS and one FCS programs there is a huge amount of talent available. Eastern Washington, who call themselves "Washington's Team" listed 68 players from Washington in 2016 and filled in with 13 from California. Fifteen of their 19 2017 signees are from Washington. Choate, a northwest guy..born and raised in Idaho, played in Montana, coached at Washington State, Boise State and Washington is well aware of the Washington potential. From my biased viewpoint...the Cats should out recruit EWU every time. In addition to talent, the Washington players come climatized, are just a day trip by car from home and their families can attend several games around the region.
Excellent post.


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Not to mention that WSU & UW don't recruit Washington very heavily. I think thats one of the main reasons why EWU is so loaded with talent every year. I don't know that we are going to out-recruit EWU, at least offensively, anytime soon, but there's an awful lot of talent there for the Cats to go after.



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Re: New OL Coach

Post by Mr Lisle » Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:21 am

The late, great USC coach John McKay used to say "there is one great one per million". In the State of Washington, UW and WSU fight hard for those "great ones" as does Notre Dame, the Oregon Schools and Stanford. Stanford recruits well anywhere it wants.



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Re: New OL Coach

Post by VimSince03 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:31 am

California recruiting since 2011: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=37323

Texas recruiting since 2011: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=37324


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Re: New OL Coach

Post by thefrank1 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:59 am

try pronouncing it 2 awful lay lay :D


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Re: New OL Coach

Post by BLACKnBLUEnGOLD » Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:25 am

VimSince03 wrote:California recruiting since 2011: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=37323

Texas recruiting since 2011: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=37324
Don't take this personally, but you put all six guys from 2016 on the good list, and only two have actually played. How many of the guys who ended up on their years' bad lists looked poised to "compete for a spot" at some point? The numbers for California are really 14/31, with four guys too soon to tell.

I also wonder if teams are really expected to score a "hit" on half their recruits. It seems intuitive that if you're unsuccessful more often than not, that's bad, but that's not always the case. If you miss more than half your shots in basketball, you can still be Tyler Hall. If you get out more often than you get a hit in baseball, you can still be Mike Trout. Football teams put a lot of guys on the roster, but only about a quarter of them are the starters. Another ten to twelve are key backups who make big positive contributions to the team without being starters, although most of those guys seem to go on to become starters eventually rather than peaking as key backups. That means, at any given time, a huge fraction of the roster consists of guys who either don't play at all, or can't play well enough to make a positive impact. Some of those guys get better, but certainly a lot of them quit or don't improve.


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Re: New OL Coach

Post by bobcat99 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:07 am

BLACKnBLUEnGOLD wrote:
VimSince03 wrote:California recruiting since 2011: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=37323

Texas recruiting since 2011: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=37324
Don't take this personally, but you put all six guys from 2016 on the good list, and only two have actually played. How many of the guys who ended up on their years' bad lists looked poised to "compete for a spot" at some point? The numbers for California are really 14/31, with four guys too soon to tell.

I also wonder if teams are really expected to score a "hit" on half their recruits. It seems intuitive that if you're unsuccessful more often than not, that's bad, but that's not always the case. If you miss more than half your shots in basketball, you can still be Tyler Hall. If you get out more often than you get a hit in baseball, you can still be Mike Trout. Football teams put a lot of guys on the roster, but only about a quarter of them are the starters. Another ten to twelve are key backups who make big positive contributions to the team without being starters, although most of those guys seem to go on to become starters eventually rather than peaking as key backups. That means, at any given time, a huge fraction of the roster consists of guys who either don't play at all, or can't play well enough to make a positive impact. Some of those guys get better, but certainly a lot of them quit or don't improve.
I don't think we can look at these larger states and say we shouldn't recruit them because of missed recruits.

There's a big factor you're missing when discussing our past history. A new coaching staff. A new coaching staff means that they evaluate talking differently, perhaps better, perhaps worse. But one guy the previous staff would offer, this staff wouldn't. Ash did a fine job here, but I would not say he was a strong talent evaluator, and along with that, I don't think he was very good at recognizing kids who could succeed away from home. Obviously we have a bit of an early bias here, but Choate and co seem like they evaluate all of those things much better. If we didn't recruit Cali, we wouldn't be getting one of the best DB prospects we've ever had. Seems shortsighted and foolish to ignore a state because Ash was a bad recruiter.



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Re: New OL Coach

Post by VimSince03 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:27 am

Don't take this personally, but you put all six guys from 2016 on the good list, and only two have actually played. How many of the guys who ended up on their years' bad lists looked poised to "compete for a spot" at some point? The numbers for California are really 14/31, with four guys too soon to tell.
Chris Murray, Kevin Kassis, and Damien Washington all received significant playing time as true freshman and not just on special teams so I would definitely put them in the "good" category. But you are right about the other three. Should be in a "yet to play" category or something.

And multiple kids from the 2013-2015 classes ended up on the "bad" list who were once on the "good" list. The point I'm trying to drive home here is how successful we have been with recruiting an area/state. Usually these kids all receive full-rides (except for the few in 2016). A lot is invested in out-of-state recruiting. Over a span of 5 years (not including 2016-2017), we rolled out under 50% retention rates for kids finishing their careers with the program from the state of California. That isn't good enough.

Also, when Rob Ash landed Jody Owens, Denarius McGhee, Darius Jones, Na'a Moeakiola, and others between the years of 2008 and 2010, it directly correlated to our three year run of Big Sky titles (2010-2012). Since 2011, we have recruited two players from Texas that have made an All-Big Sky list (Tray Robinson and Dakota Prukop) and those two players came from the 2011 (Robinson) and 2012 (Prukop) classes. There are plenty of different factors for why kids don't produce or develop. If you want to throw out Anthony Pegues from 2016, 3 out of 19 Texas recruits since 2011 have made an All-Big Sky team.
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Re: New OL Coach

Post by iaafan » Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:48 am

It isn't the state, it's the recruiter. If you have a good recruiter who knows an area well (sometimes it doesn't matter if he knows the area well or not), that state will probably treat you well.



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Re: New OL Coach

Post by VimSince03 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:59 am

iaafan wrote:It isn't the state, it's the recruiter. If you have a good recruiter who knows an area well (sometimes it doesn't matter if he knows the area well or not), that state will probably treat you well.
And it is important to point out who recruits what area and the success they have in that area. When Justin Gaines and Brandon North were on staff, our Texas recruiting was producing ridiculous results. When those two left, our primary recruiter in Texas was Bo Beck along with McEndoo and Cramsey. If you look at the years he was the primary Texas recruiter, the current results have a lot left to be desired based off the kids in that are still in the program or have left the program.

Now talking California, it comes down to Kane Ioane and Michael Pitre. Jason McEndoo also had some success in California but Ioane and Pitre have been the primary ones. Ioane was primarily in California throughout Ash's tenure. If you actually look at the recruits where he was the primary recruiter, he has some home runs and some strike outs. Actually, by the end of Ash's career in Bozeman, Ioane's California recruits produced or have produced mixed results. This is where Pitre comes in. Michael has attacked more of the Northern California schools along with the Trinity League schools and so far he has found some gems in my opinion. He hits hard on the academic part. Not saying Ioane didn't but he had a handful of recruits not making it academically or socially at MSU. I'm not saying Kane isn't a good recruiter because he is one of our best. I'm just saying maybe he needed a change of scenery under a new staff and he got just that by being the primary Washington recruiter.


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Re: New OL Coach

Post by lutecat » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:03 pm

BLACKnBLUEnGOLD wrote:
VimSince03 wrote:California recruiting since 2011: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=37323

Texas recruiting since 2011: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=37324
Don't take this personally, but you put all six guys from 2016 on the good list, and only two have actually played. How many of the guys who ended up on their years' bad lists looked poised to "compete for a spot" at some point? The numbers for California are really 14/31, with four guys too soon to tell.

I also wonder if teams are really expected to score a "hit" on half their recruits. It seems intuitive that if you're unsuccessful more often than not, that's bad, but that's not always the case. If you miss more than half your shots in basketball, you can still be Tyler Hall. If you get out more often than you get a hit in baseball, you can still be Mike Trout. Football teams put a lot of guys on the roster, but only about a quarter of them are the starters. Another ten to twelve are key backups who make big positive contributions to the team without being starters, although most of those guys seem to go on to become starters eventually rather than peaking as key backups. That means, at any given time, a huge fraction of the roster consists of guys who either don't play at all, or can't play well enough to make a positive impact. Some of those guys get better, but certainly a lot of them quit or don't improve.
And if you as a qb complete less than half your passes in football you can be....unemployed or Colin Kapernick.... or if you are a coach who's team's red zone % is less then half you can be laughed out of your profession.

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