Montana Recruits 2018

[BleedingBLue]

Curious why you couldn't just put out your top 10 with supporting arguments at the beginning of this Howard? Everyone has their opinion no doubt, but what is the point of picking out one kid and hammering Vim about that kid for several posts? Maybe I woke up on the wrong side of the bed but it struck me as odd the way you came in with your 1st ever posts.

In your words, "I just see the game of football differently perhaps. I'm a sucker for detail, some say it may be a curse, and so when I watch game film I focus on every single aspect of the game. Every single step.That's all, so when I argue with you its not because I feed off of mindless words, its because I see something that I think you may have missed. I am a fan of good lineman. Therefore, I like to see good lineman correctly acknowledged."

Could just be me on the wrong side of the bed again but that statement says to me "your opinion is wrong because you didn't acknowledge a lineman the way I think you should have, and I watch film the right way."

Maybe I'm the only one but I say get your 10 up and we can all compare from there.

[HowardRoss280]

I'm just a fan that enjoys the game of football and evaluating young talent. I in no way, shape, or for did I intend to upset you Vim. I just see the game of football differently perhaps. I'm a sucker for detail, some say it may be a curse, and so when I watch game film I focus on every single aspect of the game. Every single step. That's all, so when I argue with you its not because I feed off of mindless words, its because I see something that I think you may have missed.
I am a fan of good lineman. Therefore, I like to see good lineman correctly acknowledged.
I'd love to put together a top 10 for you, in no way am I trying to bash you, and I do truly hope that with everyone making a top 10 that it ultimately makes the final draft stronger. With that being said, to anyone who makes a top 10, there will be question on why a kid is in a position. With good reasons, you make your case stronger for that kid.
I do hope you take into consideration of all of our top 10's, I mean, this is a forum. Open for debate. It'd be sad if one were to make a top 10 and then bash anyone who tried to ask why one was ranked where they were. That's no fun!
So I will most definitely have a top 10 out for you guys, and I look forward to what you have to say

Again, not one bit upset. Actually you are right in me needing to be more clear in how I evaluate one kid over another kid.

However, I gave you a clear list of reasons why I thought one lineman was better than the rest. You then disagreed with several of those reasons and you urged me to watch the tape again assuming that I evaluated the players wrong. We obviously disagree in how we evaluate tape and i can't really do anything about that.

Regardless, if you make a top 10 I will gladly post it on the first page.

Well I'm glad you aren't upset. Analyzing film isn't easy, and I think it only makes scouting stronger if people can debate rankings.
Here's my list.
1. Gabe Sulser (Billings Senior) - 5'9", 160 lbs. - WR/DB - ... 2ef02daf36
2. Drew Turner (Kalispell Glacier) - 6'0", 205 lbs. - RB - ... 09d8bd2af8
3. Nolan Askelson (Billings Senior) - 6'2", 205 lbs. - LB - ... 2450007e2a
4. Seth Schneider (Helena Capital) - 6'0", 205 lbs. - RB/LB - ... 282c438bb7
5. Nick Germer (Missoula Sentinel) - 6'2", 175 lbs. - WR - http://www.hudl.com/profile/4041596/nick-germer/videos
6. Karson Wheat (Deer Lodge) - 6'2", 275 lbs. - OL/DT - http://www.hudl.com/profile/6005971/karson-wheat/videos
7. Carson Shuman (Helena Capital) 6'4", 275 lbs. - OL - https://www.hudl.com/profile/5362150/ca ... man/videos
8. Easton Hatfield (Townsend) - 6'4", 180 lbs. - WR - ... 21bc687e93
9. Joseph McElroy (Missoula Loyola) - 6'4", 240 lbs. - OL/DT - ... 2c088b709e
10. Kevin Boes (Great Falls High) - 6'3", 185 lbs. - QB - http://www.hudl.com/profile/4508918/kevin-boes/videos

[HowardRoss280]

Curious why you couldn't just put out your top 10 with supporting arguments at the beginning of this Howard? Everyone has their opinion no doubt, but what is the point of picking out one kid and hammering Vim about that kid for several posts? Maybe I woke up on the wrong side of the bed but it struck me as odd the way you came in with your 1st ever posts.

In your words, "I just see the game of football differently perhaps. I'm a sucker for detail, some say it may be a curse, and so when I watch game film I focus on every single aspect of the game. Every single step.That's all, so when I argue with you its not because I feed off of mindless words, its because I see something that I think you may have missed. I am a fan of good lineman. Therefore, I like to see good lineman correctly acknowledged."

Could just be me on the wrong side of the bed again but that statement says to me "your opinion is wrong because you didn't acknowledge a lineman the way I think you should have, and I watch film the right way."

Maybe I'm the only one but I say get your 10 up and we can all compare from there.

Yes, maybe I should have approached it differently. I suppose I did that because that was the biggest difference I saw in what I see as the top 10 players. But my list is up, and there are several differences I have that vim doesn't. I'm not trying to say I am better. All I was saying is that we look at different aspects of the game possibly. Everyone sees the game of football differently, that is what makes it so great. One person might look at a kid and see a 4th string WR and another might see a starting slot wide out and a major weapon. Different schemes are a major role in this of course. But my main point is that in no way am I trying to say I'm better than anyone on this page. I'm here to debate and talk about the great young talent in our state.

[Rich K]

Curious why you couldn't just put out your top 10 with supporting arguments at the beginning of this Howard? Everyone has their opinion no doubt, but what is the point of picking out one kid and hammering Vim about that kid for several posts? Maybe I woke up on the wrong side of the bed but it struck me as odd the way you came in with your 1st ever posts.

In your words, "I just see the game of football differently perhaps. I'm a sucker for detail, some say it may be a curse, and so when I watch game film I focus on every single aspect of the game. Every single step.That's all, so when I argue with you its not because I feed off of mindless words, its because I see something that I think you may have missed. I am a fan of good lineman. Therefore, I like to see good lineman correctly acknowledged."

Could just be me on the wrong side of the bed again but that statement says to me "your opinion is wrong because you didn't acknowledge a lineman the way I think you should have, and I watch film the right way."

Maybe I'm the only one but I say get your 10 up and we can all compare from there.

Yes, maybe I should have approached it differently. I suppose I did that because that was the biggest difference I saw in what I see as the top 10 players. But my list is up, and there are several differences I have that vim doesn't. I'm not trying to say I am better. All I was saying is that we look at different aspects of the game possibly. Everyone sees the game of football differently, that is what makes it so great. One person might look at a kid and see a 4th string WR and another might see a starting slot wide out and a major weapon. Different schemes are a major role in this of course. But my main point is that in no way am I trying to say I'm better than anyone on this page. I'm here to debate and talk about the great young talent in our state.

NOBODY would have thought you were "better" than anyone on this forum because you have a different opinion. As a matter of fact, because of the way you entered this forum, I probably will read your posts with little interest. Vim as well as Colter have done great jobs of bringing information to this forum. We all understand it's his opinion. We're blessed to have had some great football contributors to this site. Remember old what's his name that contributed for a couple of years before moving on to Colorado? The consensus around here was he'd be almost impossible to replace. But Colter and Vim have brought such added value to this board that I'll have to have somebody remind me of his name. Right now you're just another opinion like the rest of us football know nothings.

[Hawks86]

I'm happy to announce that I will post my top 10 on February 7th 2018

[HowardRoss280]

"NOBODY would have thought you were "better" than anyone on this forum because you have a different opinion. As a matter of fact, because of the way you entered this forum, I probably will read your posts with little interest".

That's fine. I am just talking football with the others. You don't have to have interest with what I say. Doesn't bother me one bit.


"Right now you're just another opinion like the rest of us football know nothings".[/quote]

Well I like to think I know more than nothing about football. That is why I am here in the first place. Again, I am just talking football, if you don't like what I have to say then ignore it. Vim, I and all the others are having a good time debating each others top 10's and putting out reasons why we think one kid is better than the other. No harm intended. (you consider yourself a football know nothing, so how can you say nobody would have interest in what I say?)
I am here to talk football, not get into arguments about which football fan is better at evaluating. Everyone is going to see things differently. That doesn't mean they are wrong. But it also doesn't mean that another person cant disagree with them.

[VimSince03]

I'm just a fan that enjoys the game of football and evaluating young talent. I in no way, shape, or for did I intend to upset you Vim. I just see the game of football differently perhaps. I'm a sucker for detail, some say it may be a curse, and so when I watch game film I focus on every single aspect of the game. Every single step. That's all, so when I argue with you its not because I feed off of mindless words, its because I see something that I think you may have missed.
I am a fan of good lineman. Therefore, I like to see good lineman correctly acknowledged.
I'd love to put together a top 10 for you, in no way am I trying to bash you, and I do truly hope that with everyone making a top 10 that it ultimately makes the final draft stronger. With that being said, to anyone who makes a top 10, there will be question on why a kid is in a position. With good reasons, you make your case stronger for that kid.
I do hope you take into consideration of all of our top 10's, I mean, this is a forum. Open for debate. It'd be sad if one were to make a top 10 and then bash anyone who tried to ask why one was ranked where they were. That's no fun!
So I will most definitely have a top 10 out for you guys, and I look forward to what you have to say

Again, not one bit upset. Actually you are right in me needing to be more clear in how I evaluate one kid over another kid.

However, I gave you a clear list of reasons why I thought one lineman was better than the rest. You then disagreed with several of those reasons and you urged me to watch the tape again assuming that I evaluated the players wrong. We obviously disagree in how we evaluate tape and i can't really do anything about that.

Regardless, if you make a top 10 I will gladly post it on the first page.

Well I'm glad you aren't upset. Analyzing film isn't easy, and I think it only makes scouting stronger if people can debate rankings.
Here's my list.
1. Gabe Sulser (Billings Senior) - 5'9", 160 lbs. - WR/DB - ... 2ef02daf36
2. Drew Turner (Kalispell Glacier) - 6'0", 205 lbs. - RB - ... 09d8bd2af8
3. Nolan Askelson (Billings Senior) - 6'2", 205 lbs. - LB - ... 2450007e2a
4. Seth Schneider (Helena Capital) - 6'0", 205 lbs. - RB/LB - ... 282c438bb7
5. Nick Germer (Missoula Sentinel) - 6'2", 175 lbs. - WR - http://www.hudl.com/profile/4041596/nick-germer/videos
6. Karson Wheat (Deer Lodge) - 6'2", 275 lbs. - OL/DT - http://www.hudl.com/profile/6005971/karson-wheat/videos
7. Carson Shuman (Helena Capital) 6'4", 275 lbs. - OL - https://www.hudl.com/profile/5362150/ca ... man/videos
8. Easton Hatfield (Townsend) - 6'4", 180 lbs. - WR - ... 21bc687e93
9. Joseph McElroy (Missoula Loyola) - 6'4", 240 lbs. - OL/DT - ... 2c088b709e
10. Kevin Boes (Great Falls High) - 6'3", 185 lbs. - QB - http://www.hudl.com/profile/4508918/kevin-boes/videos

Howard,

I'm on the road for the day but I'll get this posted as soon as I get back to a computer. Love that you listed Kevin Boes in your Top 10. Im really jacked to watch his senior year. Love his tape.

[HowardRoss280]

No problem, sounds good Vim. Boes is a very exciting player. I too am excited to watch his senior year. He is not a flashy talent, but he is a solid player at the QB position.

[allcat]

It only took me 60 years, but I finally figured something out. I always wondered why schools always got their kids from the winning programs, there has to be just as much talent at the losing programs. I just realized the reason those schools win is that they teach the fundamentals well. That results in a lot less coaching you would have to do when you get the kids.

[bobcat99]

It only took me 60 years, but I finally figured something out. I always wondered why schools always got their kids from the winning programs, there has to be just as much talent at the losing programs. I just realized the reason those schools win is that they teach the fundamentals well. That results in a lot less coaching you would have to do when you get the kids.

Somebody a while back posted a quote from a Montana HS coach, cannot remember the school, maybe Miles city? Anyways, it touched in this, and I thought he was spot on.

[Montanabob]

It's February 2018. For Christ's sake Howard is arguing over Aug 2019 potential.
Get over yourself Howard and go troll e-griz.

[Montanabob]

It's February 2018. For Christ's sake Howard is arguing over Aug 2019 potential.
Get over yourself Howard and go troll e-griz.

[Bozcat003]

It's February 2018. For Christ's sake Howard is arguing over Aug 2019 potential.
Get over yourself Howard and go troll e-griz.

I think Howard is doing a good job of contributing - I like hearing multiple thoughts on the upcoming Montana Class

Also, what are the thoughts on this upcoming MT class vs. last?? i feel that last class was maybe a little strong, Anderson, Andersen, Deming, Rensvold, Hashley and Gilman all seem like they would be among the tops in this class as well

[VimSince03]

It's February 2018. For Christ's sake Howard is arguing over Aug 2019 potential.
Get over yourself Howard and go troll e-griz.

I think Howard is doing a good job of contributing - I like hearing multiple thoughts on the upcoming Montana Class

Also, what are the thoughts on this upcoming MT class vs. last?? i feel that last class was maybe a little strong, Anderson, Andersen, Deming, Rensvold, Hashley and Gilman all seem like they would be among the tops in this class as well

A different set of positional groups will be strong in this class. This class will be heavy on interior offensive/defensive lineman, RB/LB types, and athletes who mostly project to WR. There won't be a ton of QB's in this upcoming class like this year's class in terms of athletes playing QB who will likely play a different positions in college.

[Joe Bobcat]

I'd say HR280 hasn't exactly made the best first impression but it looks like he might have some ability, time and passion for analyzing high school lineman talent.
So far I hope he keeps posting and in time it will become clear what he's all about and how reliable and valuable his rankings are.
Vim has shown himself to be very knowledgeable and has put in a huge amount of work that has earned him the respect of not only our fan base but many other fans across the state. Ranking High school players is a pretty inexact science and to start with the tone that HR280 does this early in the 2018 class is odd.
Live and learn, keep posting.

[lutecat]

No problem, sounds good Vim. Boes is a very exciting player. I too am excited to watch his senior year. He is not a flashy talent, but he is a solid player at the QB position.

He's from gfhs so how good can he really be? I don't put him in my top 100. Any other school but the bison we'd talk.

Gfhs is the um of aa football to me.....

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[bobcat99]

It's February 2018. For Christ's sake Howard is arguing over Aug 2019 potential.
Get over yourself Howard and go troll e-griz.

There's nothing wrong with what Howard is saying. People are allowed to disagree with Vim.

Vim knows I like and respect him, and he puts a hell of a lot more time than I do in looking at players and I'm thankful that he does, but he's not always right either. None of us are. None of the pros are. Vim does a really, really good job of this. BUT, Howard is allowed to call him out. A good, healthy debate is good for all of us, it's how we learn and better ourselves. I've disagreed with Vim on several occasions on prospects. It's never bothered him from what I can tell. I personally think it's great to get another guy in here who can evaluate tape...it's not exactly easy. So keep it up Howard, keep it up Vim, and if there are more people like them, please post. Expect for Bruce. Bruce can stfu.

[HowardRoss280]

I enjoy watching film, its a hobby of mine. Vim and I may disagree on some things but we also agree on plenty. Plus I think its nice to see who others think are worthy of top players of the state lists. It only makes the debate stronger.
And as far as overlooking a kid because he plays for a school that has been below average recently, I don't think that is fair. Boes is a solid football player. He isn't a Nate Dick who will run around and break an 80 yard run off like its nothing, but he has strengths that some high school QBs lack. Plus, GFHS will be on the come up, Mark Samson will turn that program around. It might be a slow process, but don't overlook the bison, Samson wont let his kids go down without a fight.

[mslacatfan]

I enjoy watching film, its a hobby of mine. Vim and I may disagree on some things but we also agree on plenty. Plus I think its nice to see who others think are worthy of top players of the state lists. It only makes the debate stronger.
And as far as overlooking a kid because he plays for a school that has been below average recently, I don't think that is fair. Boes is a solid football player. He isn't a Nate Dick who will run around and break an 80 yard run off like its nothing, but he has strengths that some high school QBs lack. Plus, GFHS will be on the come up, Mark Samson will turn that program around. It might be a slow process, but don't overlook the bison, Samson wont let his kids go down without a fight.

Keep posting Howard! I love hearing what guys like yourself and VIM have to say about potential recruits (especially MT kids). You obviously both have a lot of knowledge on the topic.

[wbtfg]

It's like we have our own version of Mel kiper and Todd mcshay. I appreciate both POV's.

From now on I'm going to read Vims posts in kipers voice and Howard's posts in mcshays voice.

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