Handshake

[utucats]

I thought Choate overreacting to the press about the offense and defense staying together as a team was exactly the right move. He put that thought process into the kids heads without railing about it in the locker room or on the practice field. Jerry Sloan use to make off hand comments to the press about a players effort or any host of other critiques. It would make it clear where his mind was at without creating division. More often than not you would see a marked improvement in the player.

I think Choate jumped at the opportunity to put the idea of unity in his teams mind and although it may have taken outsiders and the press by surprise it drive home the attitude he was looking for to his players.

I know that his players want badly to turn things around for him. It has been well documented the lack of loyalty Ash's crew had toward him.

As far as the all time winningest bs, without Kramer Ash would have never got there. Kramer stays and he is the all time winningest coach so what does that say?

[utucats]

If Stitt had done the same thing... would your reaction be the same.

Just asking.

Did you see what happened?

Just asking.

No I guess I have more faith in cat posters then you do...

My guess is that if Stitt had done this the faithful on BN would have pitchforks and gasoline bombs wanting him to be fired and saying what a low-grade dick he is.... Oh well, seem like some cat fans pick and chose the "high ground" based on who says or does something. IE see Bobby Hauck and Bob Stitt.

You may have noticed that any and all criticism of Choate is completely off limits on this board right now, whether justified or not. I guess getting worse every game has backed the diehards into a corner of defiance. I'm also guessing if you created a Venn Diagram of those who screamed for Ash and Co's heads (rightly or wrongly) with those screaming that everything Choate says and does is beyond reproach, you would have just one circle. I'm not sure what has happened on here, but anymore any thought that is outside the herd is yelled down with personal attacks. I'm blaming it on this election cycle....

Some of us are smart enough to know that Ash would have had similar results this season, probably worse as Marshall would have been involved with the defense still. Choate is not above criticism but he has to have time to turn the tide. Ash had us heading this direction the last several seasons. His inability as a coach has cost us from McGhee's senior year until now and we've been spiraling down ever since.

I didn't turn on Ash until his last two seasons. Some of us might be sensible enough to give Choate a fighting chance before we write him off. Oh and I have absolutely no problem with him being pissed after every loss.

Uh, not a chance in hell we would be 2 and 6 under Ash right now. I'm 100 percent with Shaner on this one. Geezus, do you people really not remember how much Ash won?? As Shaner pointed out, winning consistently is extremely hard to do, that's why so few teams ever do it. Ash won... A lot. Ya, last year was a huge disappointment but it was his only losing season... But everyone started the "fire Ash" bandwagon. Personally I would have preferred to give him one more year to right the ship. Ash was a damn good coach, obviously. You don't win three league championships in a row, beat the Griz, win playoff games, and end up ranked the number one team in the nation (albeit short lived) if you're a and or even mediocre coach. Look, I am very hopeful that Choate can match or even exceed that success, and I think he deserves three or four years to prove himself, but let's face it.... He hasn't proven a thing yet. So you all got the rah rah, intense, passionate dude you wanted, let's hope he can figure out how to build a winning program.

Don't agree at all. Ash turned your list of accomplishments into the debacle his last three years were. After all that success why wasn't he able to recruit better? How did we get to a spot where we obviously are behind the curve on the d line and other places. After to Buck winners at d end? Cmon. Kramer and Hysell were program builders. Once their fingerprints disappeared from the program it all unraveled.

[Buckaroo Bonzi]

There will always be people who add to LIFE and people who take away from LIFE
And everyone is a teacher,some teach us what to do, and some teach us what not to do !
I liked what Kramer did when he did it , I didn't like the way he did it or the way it ended.
I liked the way Ash did what he did - I think it got as good as it was going to get and was not
sustainable much longer . I still like Ash and wish him well . I think Chote is the right coach at the
right time . I see a little of the fire from the Kramer era with a little of the class of the Ash era .
This season I think we are struggling at QB , Brugg's isn't playing as well as he would like or anyone
else would like . And Murray shows a lot of upside - but is playing against dudes that can bench press
his body weight 20 or 30 times - a year in the weight room will make a lot of difference. We can not loose the
Turn Over Ratio by 4 and 5 and expect to win or be in games at the end . We have been spoiled by having the best
Or one of the best QB's in the Big Sky for the last 10 plus years. That will change but not yet. I don't think we are blessed
With overall team speed and are a little undersized in some areas- we are young and that will change . I do believe
We have a lot of fight and Heart.
On Defense it is nice to see this transformation - when we get bigger and longer in the future it will be real nice.
The biggest difference I see is the pre snap alignment it looks like we have the field covered . In the past few years it
looked like we had 10 guys out there with holes in the flats or slants were open or press with nothing over the top.
I hate to say it but, now we look like the Grizz used to - like we got 12 dudes out there no easy pre snap reads for
The opposing QB . The other thing that stands out is the Defensive adjustments this season at half time - we have them
And they work !
I think the players are frustrated, the coach's are frustrated, and the fans are frustrated !
We can play ball with anybody at times , with the fight and heart of this team and we can get a little
Healthier, clean up the turn over Ratio and put together 4 quarters there's an upset in the making
Down the road and then we off to the New Era of Bob Cat Football!


No matter where you go , there you are ~ protect the rock

[Shaner]

There will always be people who add to LIFE and people who take away from LIFE
And everyone is a teacher,some teach us what to do, and some teach us what not to do !
I liked what Kramer did when he did it , I didn't like the way he did it or the way it ended.
I liked the way Ash did what he did - I think it got as good as it was going to get and was not
sustainable much longer . I still like Ash and wish him well . I think Chote is the right coach at the
right time . I see a little of the fire from the Kramer era with a little of the class of the Ash era .
This season I think we are struggling at QB , Brugg's isn't playing as well as he would like or anyone
else would like . And Murray shows a lot of upside - but is playing against dudes that can bench press
his body weight 20 or 30 times - a year in the weight room will make a lot of difference. We can not loose the
Turn Over Ratio by 4 and 5 and expect to win or be in games at the end . We have been spoiled by having the best
Or one of the best QB's in the Big Sky for the last 10 plus years. That will change but not yet. I don't think we are blessed
With overall team speed and are a little undersized in some areas- we are young and that will change . I do believe
We have a lot of fight and Heart.
On Defense it is nice to see this transformation - when we get bigger and longer in the future it will be real nice.
The biggest difference I see is the pre snap alignment it looks like we have the field covered . In the past few years it
looked like we had 10 guys out there with holes in the flats or slants were open or press with nothing over the top.
I hate to say it but, now we look like the Grizz used to - like we got 12 dudes out there no easy pre snap reads for
The opposing QB . The other thing that stands out is the Defensive adjustments this season at half time - we have them
And they work !
I think the players are frustrated, the coach's are frustrated, and the fans are frustrated !
We can play ball with anybody at times , with the fight and heart of this team and we can get a little
Healthier, clean up the turn over Ratio and put together 4 quarters there's an upset in the making
Down the road and then we off to the New Era of Bob Cat Football!


No matter where you go , there you are ~ protect the rock

This is an excellent post. I agree on all accounts.

[CARDIAC_CATS]

There will always be people who add to LIFE and people who take away from LIFE
And everyone is a teacher,some teach us what to do, and some teach us what not to do !
I liked what Kramer did when he did it , I didn't like the way he did it or the way it ended.
I liked the way Ash did what he did - I think it got as good as it was going to get and was not
sustainable much longer . I still like Ash and wish him well . I think Chote is the right coach at the
right time . I see a little of the fire from the Kramer era with a little of the class of the Ash era .
This season I think we are struggling at QB , Brugg's isn't playing as well as he would like or anyone
else would like . And Murray shows a lot of upside - but is playing against dudes that can bench press
his body weight 20 or 30 times - a year in the weight room will make a lot of difference. We can not loose the
Turn Over Ratio by 4 and 5 and expect to win or be in games at the end . We have been spoiled by having the best
Or one of the best QB's in the Big Sky for the last 10 plus years. That will change but not yet. I don't think we are blessed
With overall team speed and are a little undersized in some areas- we are young and that will change . I do believe
We have a lot of fight and Heart.
On Defense it is nice to see this transformation - when we get bigger and longer in the future it will be real nice.
The biggest difference I see is the pre snap alignment it looks like we have the field covered . In the past few years it
looked like we had 10 guys out there with holes in the flats or slants were open or press with nothing over the top.
I hate to say it but, now we look like the Grizz used to - like we got 12 dudes out there no easy pre snap reads for
The opposing QB . The other thing that stands out is the Defensive adjustments this season at half time - we have them
And they work !
I think the players are frustrated, the coach's are frustrated, and the fans are frustrated !
We can play ball with anybody at times , with the fight and heart of this team and we can get a little
Healthier, clean up the turn over Ratio and put together 4 quarters there's an upset in the making
Down the road and then we off to the New Era of Bob Cat Football!


No matter where you go , there you are ~ protect the rock

Excellent Post. #1 Clean up the turnover ratio and we will have a chance to win all of our remaining games.

[GoldstoneCat]

If Stitt had done the same thing... would your reaction be the same.

Just asking.

Did you see what happened?

Just asking.

No I guess I have more faith in cat posters then you do...

My guess is that if Stitt had done this the faithful on BN would have pitchforks and gasoline bombs wanting him to be fired and saying what a low-grade dick he is.... Oh well, seem like some cat fans pick and chose the "high ground" based on who says or does something. IE see Bobby Hauck and Bob Stitt.

You may have noticed that any and all criticism of Choate is completely off limits on this board right now, whether justified or not. I guess getting worse every game has backed the diehards into a corner of defiance. I'm also guessing if you created a Venn Diagram of those who screamed for Ash and Co's heads (rightly or wrongly) with those screaming that everything Choate says and does is beyond reproach, you would have just one circle. I'm not sure what has happened on here, but anymore any thought that is outside the herd is yelled down with personal attacks. I'm blaming it on this election cycle....

Some of us are smart enough to know that Ash would have had similar results this season, probably worse as Marshall would have been involved with the defense still. Choate is not above criticism but he has to have time to turn the tide. Ash had us heading this direction the last several seasons. His inability as a coach has cost us from McGhee's senior year until now and we've been spiraling down ever since.

I didn't turn on Ash until his last two seasons. Some of us might be sensible enough to give Choate a fighting chance before we write him off. Oh and I have absolutely no problem with him being pissed after every loss.

Uh, not a chance in hell we would be 2 and 6 under Ash right now. I'm 100 percent with Shaner on this one. Geezus, do you people really not remember how much Ash won?? As Shaner pointed out, winning consistently is extremely hard to do, that's why so few teams ever do it. Ash won... A lot. Ya, last year was a huge disappointment but it was his only losing season... But everyone started the "fire Ash" bandwagon. Personally I would have preferred to give him one more year to right the ship. Ash was a damn good coach, obviously. You don't win three league championships in a row, beat the Griz, win playoff games, and end up ranked the number one team in the nation (albeit short lived) if you're a and or even mediocre coach. Look, I am very hopeful that Choate can match or even exceed that success, and I think he deserves three or four years to prove himself, but let's face it.... He hasn't proven a thing yet. So you all got the rah rah, intense, passionate dude you wanted, let's hope he can figure out how to build a winning program.

Don't agree at all. Ash turned your list of accomplishments into the debacle his last three years were. After all that success why wasn't he able to recruit better? How did we get to a spot where we obviously are behind the curve on the d line and other places. After to Buck winners at d end? Cmon. Kramer and Hysell were program builders. Once their fingerprints disappeared from the program it all unraveled.

You have some points here, but your point about Hysell and Kramer being program builders, and Ash not, is so far off base it's not even funny. I wish we didn't have to keep re-litigating this, but there are those of us here who still have a ton of respect for the program he built here, and how he did it. Ash built a deep, talented team here, and did it by sending his guys to recruit in a talent-rich state where MSU had never dreamed of building a presence like we did there. Those 2010-2013 teams were as talented as any in the country. We lacked a little speed on defense, but were it not for injuries to some key offensive players (McGhee specifically, also Kirk) who knows how far we go. Were there letdowns in big games? Sure there were, and that was frustrating, not often getting over the hump against the better teams in the league. But to say the last three years were a debacle is just incorrect. You had a great QB get injured in '14, won 8 and had a home playoff game, and had his first losing season. Recruiting could have been better, we obviously see that now, but to compare Ash unfavorably to anybody in the recent past here is simply not correct. Let it go, so we can maybe talk about some of the shortcomings of the new staff, as that seems more pertinent now. I know all you guys thought Ash lacked fire, but we never had to have a thread about whether our coach acted like a jackass after the game, or during the game screaming at his assistants (which he's done all year, not just this game) for the world to watch. Look, I think and hope he can turn us back into a winner, and I agree that some well-placed fire and brimstone will be good for this program, but it's possible to like the new direction while acknowledging that we had it pretty good here the last 9 years too, compared to 90% of the country. How often have we said that in the last 30 years?

[The Butcher]

If Stitt had done the same thing... would your reaction be the same.

Just asking.

Did you see what happened?

Just asking.

No I guess I have more faith in cat posters then you do...

My guess is that if Stitt had done this the faithful on BN would have pitchforks and gasoline bombs wanting him to be fired and saying what a low-grade dick he is.... Oh well, seem like some cat fans pick and chose the "high ground" based on who says or does something. IE see Bobby Hauck and Bob Stitt.

You may have noticed that any and all criticism of Choate is completely off limits on this board right now, whether justified or not. I guess getting worse every game has backed the diehards into a corner of defiance. I'm also guessing if you created a Venn Diagram of those who screamed for Ash and Co's heads (rightly or wrongly) with those screaming that everything Choate says and does is beyond reproach, you would have just one circle. I'm not sure what has happened on here, but anymore any thought that is outside the herd is yelled down with personal attacks. I'm blaming it on this election cycle....

Some of us are smart enough to know that Ash would have had similar results this season, probably worse as Marshall would have been involved with the defense still. Choate is not above criticism but he has to have time to turn the tide. Ash had us heading this direction the last several seasons. His inability as a coach has cost us from McGhee's senior year until now and we've been spiraling down ever since.

I didn't turn on Ash until his last two seasons. Some of us might be sensible enough to give Choate a fighting chance before we write him off. Oh and I have absolutely no problem with him being pissed after every loss.

+1

[imacat]

If Stitt had done the same thing... would your reaction be the same.

Just asking.

Did you see what happened?

Just asking.

No I guess I have more faith in cat posters then you do...

My guess is that if Stitt had done this the faithful on BN would have pitchforks and gasoline bombs wanting him to be fired and saying what a low-grade dick he is.... Oh well, seem like some cat fans pick and chose the "high ground" based on who says or does something. IE see Bobby Hauck and Bob Stitt.

You may have noticed that any and all criticism of Choate is completely off limits on this board right now, whether justified or not. I guess getting worse every game has backed the diehards into a corner of defiance. I'm also guessing if you created a Venn Diagram of those who screamed for Ash and Co's heads (rightly or wrongly) with those screaming that everything Choate says and does is beyond reproach, you would have just one circle. I'm not sure what has happened on here, but anymore any thought that is outside the herd is yelled down with personal attacks. I'm blaming it on this election cycle....

Some of us are smart enough to know that Ash would have had similar results this season, probably worse as Marshall would have been involved with the defense still. Choate is not above criticism but he has to have time to turn the tide. Ash had us heading this direction the last several seasons. His inability as a coach has cost us from McGhee's senior year until now and we've been spiraling down ever since.

I didn't turn on Ash until his last two seasons. Some of us might be sensible enough to give Choate a fighting chance before we write him off. Oh and I have absolutely no problem with him being pissed after every loss.

Uh, not a chance in hell we would be 2 and 6 under Ash right now. I'm 100 percent with Shaner on this one. Geezus, do you people really not remember how much Ash won?? As Shaner pointed out, winning consistently is extremely hard to do, that's why so few teams ever do it. Ash won... A lot. Ya, last year was a huge disappointment but it was his only losing season... But everyone started the "fire Ash" bandwagon. Personally I would have preferred to give him one more year to right the ship. Ash was a damn good coach, obviously. You don't win three league championships in a row, beat the Griz, win playoff games, and end up ranked the number one team in the nation (albeit short lived) if you're a and or even mediocre coach. Look, I am very hopeful that Choate can match or even exceed that success, and I think he deserves three or four years to prove himself, but let's face it.... He hasn't proven a thing yet. So you all got the rah rah, intense, passionate dude you wanted, let's hope he can figure out how to build a winning program.

Don't agree at all. Ash turned your list of accomplishments into the debacle his last three years were. After all that success why wasn't he able to recruit better? How did we get to a spot where we obviously are behind the curve on the d line and other places. After to Buck winners at d end? Cmon. Kramer and Hysell were program builders. Once their fingerprints disappeared from the program it all unraveled.

You have some points here, but your point about Hysell and Kramer being program builders, and Ash not, is so far off base it's not even funny. I wish we didn't have to keep re-litigating this, but there are those of us here who still have a ton of respect for the program he built here, and how he did it. Ash built a deep, talented team here, and did it by sending his guys to recruit in a talent-rich state where MSU had never dreamed of building a presence like we did there. Those 2010-2013 teams were as talented as any in the country. We lacked a little speed on defense, but were it not for injuries to some key offensive players (McGhee specifically, also Kirk) who knows how far we go. Were there letdowns in big games? Sure there were, and that was frustrating, not often getting over the hump against the better teams in the league. But to say the last three years were a debacle is just incorrect. You had a great QB get injured in '14, won 8 and had a home playoff game, and had his first losing season. Recruiting could have been better, we obviously see that now, but to compare Ash unfavorably to anybody in the recent past here is simply not correct. Let it go, so we can maybe talk about some of the shortcomings of the new staff, as that seems more pertinent now. I know all you guys thought Ash lacked fire, but we never had to have a thread about whether our coach acted like a jackass after the game, or during the game screaming at his assistants (which he's done all year, not just this game) for the world to watch. Look, I think and hope he can turn us back into a winner, and I agree that some well-placed fire and brimstone will be good for this program, but it's possible to like the new direction while acknowledging that we had it pretty good here the last 9 years too, compared to 90% of the country. How often have we said that in the last 30 years?

+++++


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[catsrback76]

If Stitt had done the same thing... would your reaction be the same.

Just asking.

Did you see what happened?

Just asking.

No I guess I have more faith in cat posters then you do...

My guess is that if Stitt had done this the faithful on BN would have pitchforks and gasoline bombs wanting him to be fired and saying what a low-grade dick he is.... Oh well, seem like some cat fans pick and chose the "high ground" based on who says or does something. IE see Bobby Hauck and Bob Stitt.

You may have noticed that any and all criticism of Choate is completely off limits on this board right now, whether justified or not. I guess getting worse every game has backed the diehards into a corner of defiance. I'm also guessing if you created a Venn Diagram of those who screamed for Ash and Co's heads (rightly or wrongly) with those screaming that everything Choate says and does is beyond reproach, you would have just one circle. I'm not sure what has happened on here, but anymore any thought that is outside the herd is yelled down with personal attacks. I'm blaming it on this election cycle....

Some of us are smart enough to know that Ash would have had similar results this season, probably worse as Marshall would have been involved with the defense still. Choate is not above criticism but he has to have time to turn the tide. Ash had us heading this direction the last several seasons. His inability as a coach has cost us from McGhee's senior year until now and we've been spiraling down ever since.

I didn't turn on Ash until his last two seasons. Some of us might be sensible enough to give Choate a fighting chance before we write him off. Oh and I have absolutely no problem with him being pissed after every loss.

Uh, not a chance in hell we would be 2 and 6 under Ash right now. I'm 100 percent with Shaner on this one. Geezus, do you people really not remember how much Ash won?? As Shaner pointed out, winning consistently is extremely hard to do, that's why so few teams ever do it. Ash won... A lot. Ya, last year was a huge disappointment but it was his only losing season... But everyone started the "fire Ash" bandwagon. Personally I would have preferred to give him one more year to right the ship. Ash was a damn good coach, obviously. You don't win three league championships in a row, beat the Griz, win playoff games, and end up ranked the number one team in the nation (albeit short lived) if you're a and or even mediocre coach. Look, I am very hopeful that Choate can match or even exceed that success, and I think he deserves three or four years to prove himself, but let's face it.... He hasn't proven a thing yet. So you all got the rah rah, intense, passionate dude you wanted, let's hope he can figure out how to build a winning program.

Don't agree at all. Ash turned your list of accomplishments into the debacle his last three years were. After all that success why wasn't he able to recruit better? How did we get to a spot where we obviously are behind the curve on the d line and other places. After to Buck winners at d end? Cmon. Kramer and Hysell were program builders. Once their fingerprints disappeared from the program it all unraveled.

You have some points here, but your point about Hysell and Kramer being program builders, and Ash not, is so far off base it's not even funny. I wish we didn't have to keep re-litigating this, but there are those of us here who still have a ton of respect for the program he built here, and how he did it. Ash built a deep, talented team here, and did it by sending his guys to recruit in a talent-rich state where MSU had never dreamed of building a presence like we did there. Those 2010-2013 teams were as talented as any in the country. We lacked a little speed on defense, but were it not for injuries to some key offensive players (McGhee specifically, also Kirk) who knows how far we go. Were there letdowns in big games? Sure there were, and that was frustrating, not often getting over the hump against the better teams in the league. But to say the last three years were a debacle is just incorrect. You had a great QB get injured in '14, won 8 and had a home playoff game, and had his first losing season. Recruiting could have been better, we obviously see that now, but to compare Ash unfavorably to anybody in the recent past here is simply not correct. Let it go, so we can maybe talk about some of the shortcomings of the new staff, as that seems more pertinent now. I know all you guys thought Ash lacked fire, but we never had to have a thread about whether our coach acted like a jackass after the game, or during the game screaming at his assistants (which he's done all year, not just this game) for the world to watch. Look, I think and hope he can turn us back into a winner, and I agree that some well-placed fire and brimstone will be good for this program, but it's possible to like the new direction while acknowledging that we had it pretty good here the last 9 years too, compared to 90% of the country. How often have we said that in the last 30 years?

+++++


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would only add to the point that he expresses emotion and passion that at times seems to be over the top...have you ever been in a restaurant full of Italians??? I ask that tongue in cheek, because if you've not, you might upon first glance react to the noise and emotion being shared as "negative" talk, yelling, and arguments. But, you'd be wrong...it is how they express themselves in community, and for the lilting flowers in the room it can be too much!

BUT, for those so inclined and raised, it is carpe diem!

So, my point is simple. Many here on this board and in the stands enjoyed Coach Ash "most of the time" because he was so level... BUT hated it when he did not express the emotions appropriate with disappointment, upset, etc. So, we sat on it out of respect for the Coach. Now however, we have a Coach who expresses himself emotionally. I LOVE it, but recognise that many don't. Simply stated, it's time for those who are so inclined to prefer an Ash response over a Choate reaction...to get over it!

[imacat]

If Stitt had done the same thing... would your reaction be the same.

Just asking.

Did you see what happened?

Just asking.

No I guess I have more faith in cat posters then you do...

My guess is that if Stitt had done this the faithful on BN would have pitchforks and gasoline bombs wanting him to be fired and saying what a low-grade dick he is.... Oh well, seem like some cat fans pick and chose the "high ground" based on who says or does something. IE see Bobby Hauck and Bob Stitt.

You may have noticed that any and all criticism of Choate is completely off limits on this board right now, whether justified or not. I guess getting worse every game has backed the diehards into a corner of defiance. I'm also guessing if you created a Venn Diagram of those who screamed for Ash and Co's heads (rightly or wrongly) with those screaming that everything Choate says and does is beyond reproach, you would have just one circle. I'm not sure what has happened on here, but anymore any thought that is outside the herd is yelled down with personal attacks. I'm blaming it on this election cycle....

Some of us are smart enough to know that Ash would have had similar results this season, probably worse as Marshall would have been involved with the defense still. Choate is not above criticism but he has to have time to turn the tide. Ash had us heading this direction the last several seasons. His inability as a coach has cost us from McGhee's senior year until now and we've been spiraling down ever since.

I didn't turn on Ash until his last two seasons. Some of us might be sensible enough to give Choate a fighting chance before we write him off. Oh and I have absolutely no problem with him being pissed after every loss.

Uh, not a chance in hell we would be 2 and 6 under Ash right now. I'm 100 percent with Shaner on this one. Geezus, do you people really not remember how much Ash won?? As Shaner pointed out, winning consistently is extremely hard to do, that's why so few teams ever do it. Ash won... A lot. Ya, last year was a huge disappointment but it was his only losing season... But everyone started the "fire Ash" bandwagon. Personally I would have preferred to give him one more year to right the ship. Ash was a damn good coach, obviously. You don't win three league championships in a row, beat the Griz, win playoff games, and end up ranked the number one team in the nation (albeit short lived) if you're a and or even mediocre coach. Look, I am very hopeful that Choate can match or even exceed that success, and I think he deserves three or four years to prove himself, but let's face it.... He hasn't proven a thing yet. So you all got the rah rah, intense, passionate dude you wanted, let's hope he can figure out how to build a winning program.

Don't agree at all. Ash turned your list of accomplishments into the debacle his last three years were. After all that success why wasn't he able to recruit better? How did we get to a spot where we obviously are behind the curve on the d line and other places. After to Buck winners at d end? Cmon. Kramer and Hysell were program builders. Once their fingerprints disappeared from the program it all unraveled.

You have some points here, but your point about Hysell and Kramer being program builders, and Ash not, is so far off base it's not even funny. I wish we didn't have to keep re-litigating this, but there are those of us here who still have a ton of respect for the program he built here, and how he did it. Ash built a deep, talented team here, and did it by sending his guys to recruit in a talent-rich state where MSU had never dreamed of building a presence like we did there. Those 2010-2013 teams were as talented as any in the country. We lacked a little speed on defense, but were it not for injuries to some key offensive players (McGhee specifically, also Kirk) who knows how far we go. Were there letdowns in big games? Sure there were, and that was frustrating, not often getting over the hump against the better teams in the league. But to say the last three years were a debacle is just incorrect. You had a great QB get injured in '14, won 8 and had a home playoff game, and had his first losing season. Recruiting could have been better, we obviously see that now, but to compare Ash unfavorably to anybody in the recent past here is simply not correct. Let it go, so we can maybe talk about some of the shortcomings of the new staff, as that seems more pertinent now. I know all you guys thought Ash lacked fire, but we never had to have a thread about whether our coach acted like a jackass after the game, or during the game screaming at his assistants (which he's done all year, not just this game) for the world to watch. Look, I think and hope he can turn us back into a winner, and I agree that some well-placed fire and brimstone will be good for this program, but it's possible to like the new direction while acknowledging that we had it pretty good here the last 9 years too, compared to 90% of the country. How often have we said that in the last 30 years?

+++++


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would only add to the point that he expresses emotion and passion that at times seems to be over the top...have you ever been in a restaurant full of Italians??? I ask that tongue in cheek, because if you've not, you might upon first glance react to the noise and emotion being shared as "negative" talk, yelling, and arguments. But, you'd be wrong...it is how they express themselves in community, and for the lilting flowers in the room it can be too much!

BUT, for those so inclined and raised, it is carpe diem!

So, my point is simple. Many here on this board and in the stands enjoyed Coach Ash "most of the time" because he was so level... BUT hated it when he did not express the emotions appropriate with disappointment, upset, etc. So, we sat on it out of respect for the Coach. Now however, we have a Coach who expresses himself emotionally. I LOVE it, but recognise that many don't. Simply stated, it's time for those who are so inclined to prefer an Ash response over a Choate reaction...to get over it!

It is also time for those who prefer Choate's response to quit bashing Ash ... to get over it. :coffee


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SACCAT]

Found a clip of the Handshake...It is at about the 1:00 mark of the video

https://youtu.be/5i_D6oQO6b8

[Buckaroo Bonzi]

I liked Ash. I still believe Chote is the right coach at the right time.
I believe it is better to have a Coach that the players would run through
a brick wall for, than a Coach the Fan base would run through a brick wall
for . So far I think the players believe Chote has their back, takes responsibility
for the turn overs and where the program is at, at this time. And will make the right
decisions to correct it as fast as he can. I like that we are a team now instead of an
offense and a defense . Right now there is a lot that is totally unacceptable to the
Coach. I look forward to the product when it becomes acceptable to the Coach.
Real good times are coming but not yet .


Where ever you go, there you are............protect the rock

[wbtfg]

Found a clip of the Handshake...It is at about the 1:00 mark of the video

https://youtu.be/5i_D6oQO6b8

[91catAlum]

Found a clip of the Handshake...It is at about the 1:00 mark of the video

https://youtu.be/5i_D6oQO6b8

I'm listening to the F!#@kn song!

[GoldstoneCat]

If Stitt had done the same thing... would your reaction be the same.

Just asking.

Did you see what happened?

Just asking.

No I guess I have more faith in cat posters then you do...

My guess is that if Stitt had done this the faithful on BN would have pitchforks and gasoline bombs wanting him to be fired and saying what a low-grade dick he is.... Oh well, seem like some cat fans pick and chose the "high ground" based on who says or does something. IE see Bobby Hauck and Bob Stitt.

You may have noticed that any and all criticism of Choate is completely off limits on this board right now, whether justified or not. I guess getting worse every game has backed the diehards into a corner of defiance. I'm also guessing if you created a Venn Diagram of those who screamed for Ash and Co's heads (rightly or wrongly) with those screaming that everything Choate says and does is beyond reproach, you would have just one circle. I'm not sure what has happened on here, but anymore any thought that is outside the herd is yelled down with personal attacks. I'm blaming it on this election cycle....

Some of us are smart enough to know that Ash would have had similar results this season, probably worse as Marshall would have been involved with the defense still. Choate is not above criticism but he has to have time to turn the tide. Ash had us heading this direction the last several seasons. His inability as a coach has cost us from McGhee's senior year until now and we've been spiraling down ever since.

I didn't turn on Ash until his last two seasons. Some of us might be sensible enough to give Choate a fighting chance before we write him off. Oh and I have absolutely no problem with him being pissed after every loss.

Uh, not a chance in hell we would be 2 and 6 under Ash right now. I'm 100 percent with Shaner on this one. Geezus, do you people really not remember how much Ash won?? As Shaner pointed out, winning consistently is extremely hard to do, that's why so few teams ever do it. Ash won... A lot. Ya, last year was a huge disappointment but it was his only losing season... But everyone started the "fire Ash" bandwagon. Personally I would have preferred to give him one more year to right the ship. Ash was a damn good coach, obviously. You don't win three league championships in a row, beat the Griz, win playoff games, and end up ranked the number one team in the nation (albeit short lived) if you're a and or even mediocre coach. Look, I am very hopeful that Choate can match or even exceed that success, and I think he deserves three or four years to prove himself, but let's face it.... He hasn't proven a thing yet. So you all got the rah rah, intense, passionate dude you wanted, let's hope he can figure out how to build a winning program.

Don't agree at all. Ash turned your list of accomplishments into the debacle his last three years were. After all that success why wasn't he able to recruit better? How did we get to a spot where we obviously are behind the curve on the d line and other places. After to Buck winners at d end? Cmon. Kramer and Hysell were program builders. Once their fingerprints disappeared from the program it all unraveled.

You have some points here, but your point about Hysell and Kramer being program builders, and Ash not, is so far off base it's not even funny. I wish we didn't have to keep re-litigating this, but there are those of us here who still have a ton of respect for the program he built here, and how he did it. Ash built a deep, talented team here, and did it by sending his guys to recruit in a talent-rich state where MSU had never dreamed of building a presence like we did there. Those 2010-2013 teams were as talented as any in the country. We lacked a little speed on defense, but were it not for injuries to some key offensive players (McGhee specifically, also Kirk) who knows how far we go. Were there letdowns in big games? Sure there were, and that was frustrating, not often getting over the hump against the better teams in the league. But to say the last three years were a debacle is just incorrect. You had a great QB get injured in '14, won 8 and had a home playoff game, and had his first losing season. Recruiting could have been better, we obviously see that now, but to compare Ash unfavorably to anybody in the recent past here is simply not correct. Let it go, so we can maybe talk about some of the shortcomings of the new staff, as that seems more pertinent now. I know all you guys thought Ash lacked fire, but we never had to have a thread about whether our coach acted like a jackass after the game, or during the game screaming at his assistants (which he's done all year, not just this game) for the world to watch. Look, I think and hope he can turn us back into a winner, and I agree that some well-placed fire and brimstone will be good for this program, but it's possible to like the new direction while acknowledging that we had it pretty good here the last 9 years too, compared to 90% of the country. How often have we said that in the last 30 years?

+++++


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would only add to the point that he expresses emotion and passion that at times seems to be over the top...have you ever been in a restaurant full of Italians??? I ask that tongue in cheek, because if you've not, you might upon first glance react to the noise and emotion being shared as "negative" talk, yelling, and arguments. But, you'd be wrong...it is how they express themselves in community, and for the lilting flowers in the room it can be too much!

BUT, for those so inclined and raised, it is carpe diem!

So, my point is simple. Many here on this board and in the stands enjoyed Coach Ash "most of the time" because he was so level... BUT hated it when he did not express the emotions appropriate with disappointment, upset, etc. So, we sat on it out of respect for the Coach. Now however, we have a Coach who expresses himself emotionally. I LOVE it, but recognise that many don't. Simply stated, it's time for those who are so inclined to prefer an Ash response over a Choate reaction...to get over it!

I'm over it, and didn't say it's all bad. where I pipe up and get pissed is when people still insist on re litigating all the things they hated about the prior staff and their 9 year reign, but criticize this current staff and one isn't a true fan. I'm on the record, numerous times on this board, saying I support coach Choate and his staff taking this program forward. Can somebody please tell me why it's unreasonable to also remember the last staff for the good they did here, instead of only with malice for their perceived shortcomings? It seems that it shouldn't have to be an either/or proposition.

[exppi]

You I know all you guys thought Ash lacked fire, but we never had to have a thread about whether our coach acted like a jackass after the game, or during the game screaming at his assistants (which he's done all year, not just this game) for the world to watch.

interesting. I am aware of a few other coaches who have a reputation for wearing their passion on their sleeve. One dude even has players quoted that they hear him yelling at them in their sleep. BTW, his number happens to be have been retired by MSU.

[exppi]

I thought Choate overreacting to the press about the offense and defense staying together as a team was exactly the right move. He put that thought process into the kids heads without railing about it in the locker room or on the practice field. Jerry Sloan use to make off hand comments to the press about a players effort or any host of other critiques. It would make it clear where his mind was at without creating division. More often than not you would see a marked improvement in the player.

I think Choate jumped at the opportunity to put the idea of unity in his teams mind and although it may have taken outsiders and the press by surprise it drive home the attitude he was looking for to his players.

I know that his players want badly to turn things around for him. It has been well documented the lack of loyalty Ash's crew had toward him.

As far as the all time winningest bs, without Kramer Ash would have never got there. Kramer stays and he is the all time winningest coach so what does that say?

Does anyone know the last time we had a player play both ways in a game? That to me says unity among this team above everything else.

[utucats]

My bringing up Ash was not to "re-litigate" but to simply make the point that we were headed down this path before our current staff showed up. As far as anyone questioning someone's mindset or whether they are a "true fan" or not, I think we are all true fans who look at things differently and have different opinions. That being the reason this site exists so we are all able to tell each other they are wrong and we are right.

I'm convinced that in the near future all questions about Coach's ability will be answered and threads like this will not exist on BN. I love his fire but more importantly I think 18-23 year olds respond to it well. I believe Coach 100% when he says, "Our day is coming."

[DriscollCat]

My bringing up Ash was not to "re-litigate" but to simply make the point that we were headed down this path before our current staff showed up. As far as anyone questioning someone's mindset or whether they are a "true fan" or not, I think we are all true fans who look at things differently and have different opinions. That being the reason this site exists so we are all able to tell each other they are wrong and we are right.

I'm convinced that in the near future all questions about Coach's ability will be answered and threads like this will not exist on BN. I love his fire but more importantly I think 18-23 year olds respond to it well. I believe Coach 100% when he says, "Our day is coming."

Hey UTU, it's been a while since we have butted heads. Hope you are well.

A lot of people feel like coach Choate didn't get a fair starting point, but it keeps getting brought up, and it is starting to sound like an excuse.

Choate is our coach, and we should be supporting him because he is our coach and he is clearly a competent one. IMHO, he needs time, not excuses. There are so many nuances other than old/new coach's fault that determine how a team does during the first year of a new coaching staff, and almost none of us has insight to those things.

It gets hard to hold your peace when people continue to trash Ash. I just feel like we need to move on.

[CatsNoMatterWhat]

My bringing up Ash was not to "re-litigate" but to simply make the point that we were headed down this path before our current staff showed up. As far as anyone questioning someone's mindset or whether they are a "true fan" or not, I think we are all true fans who look at things differently and have different opinions. That being the reason this site exists so we are all able to tell each other they are wrong and we are right.

I'm convinced that in the near future all questions about Coach's ability will be answered and threads like this will not exist on BN. I love his fire but more importantly I think 18-23 year olds respond to it well. I believe Coach 100% when he says, "Our day is coming."

Hey UTU, it's been a while since we have butted heads. Hope you are well.

A lot of people feel like coach Choate didn't get a fair starting point, but it keeps getting brought up, and it is starting to sound like an excuse.

Choate is our coach, and we should be supporting him because he is our coach and he is clearly a competent one. IMHO, he needs time, not excuses. There are so many nuances other than old/new coach's fault that determine how a team does during the first year of a new coaching staff, and almost none of us has insight to those things.

It gets hard to hold your peace when people continue to trash Ash. I just feel like we need to move on.

Well said,

I was an "Ash Doomsday'er" (as you know, Driscoll ), but I don't think all of Choate's problems boil down to Ash. There are certainly some roster challenges, but Choate is also brining in an entirely new system, a new way of thinking, new everything. This is why I have been STUNNED all season long to see the number of people who are upset that we're not winning (ok...I'll stop some of you at the door; it's not JUST that we're not winning, but that we're now one of the worst teams in the BSC...I acknowledge, lets not beat that dead horse). I said in an earlier post, there will be a quick turn here, but it won't be this year. I think it's good that Choate is looking at the remainder of the year as a 3-game "new season", but the result of this season--good or bad--will have very little to do with how next year plays out. If Choate doesn't start righting the ship next year and has it cruising the year after, I will agree (as a HUGE supporter of his), that we should try somebody new.