Are our Coaches in for the Long Haul or the Short Bus?

jdevries · Post by **jdevries** » Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:58 pm

32 Year Bobcat/Grizzly Head Coach Comparison

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwHrWR ... sp=sharing

I had a long post planned,... but you can make your own observations from this.

rivercat · Post by **rivercat** » Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:42 pm

Look at the reasons for the coaching changes. The majority of the griz coaching changes were because successful coaches we're moving up. They left with very good teams in place.

The majority of the Cats changes were precipitated by losing or problems in the program. They left with not so good teams. No other conclusions can be reached.

77matcat · Post by **77matcat** » Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:44 pm

I observed that Kramer took over a team with little talent but still managed to go to the playoffs over 50% of his years, while Ash took over a team that was loaded but didn't manage to get to the playoffs 50% of the time.

Oh....... I also saw what building the best venue in FCS does for recruiting talent.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Mr Lisle · Post by **Mr Lisle** » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:40 pm

77matcat wrote:I observed that Kramer took over a team with little talent but still managed to go to the playoffs over 50% of his years, while Ash took over a team that was loaded but didn't manage to get to the playoffs 50% of the time.

Oh....... I also saw what building the best venue in FCS does for recruiting talent.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I keep seeing Kramer arrived to an empty cupboard and I don't buy it. Here is who Cliff left him...and more:

Ryan Elliott
Jay Hackett
Brian McNeal
Cody Schrader
Lamonte Bell
Arie Grey
Nate Cook
Brandon Vancleeve
Ryan Johnson
Shaun Ross
Mike McCafferty
Blake Wolf
Mike Quast
Raymund Sebestyen
Brent Swaggert
Mataio Toilolo
Paul Diercks
Pat Carahasen
Corey Smith
Scott Turnquist
Frank Green
Johathan Taylor
Jon Montoya
Nick Morasko

Cataholic · Post by **Cataholic** » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:46 pm

Mr Lisle wrote:
77matcat wrote:I observed that Kramer took over a team with little talent but still managed to go to the playoffs over 50% of his years, while Ash took over a team that was loaded but didn't manage to get to the playoffs 50% of the time.

Oh....... I also saw what building the best venue in FCS does for recruiting talent.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I keep seeing Kramer arrived to an empty cupboard and I don't buy it. Here is who Cliff left him...and more:

Ryan Elliott
Jay Hackett
Brian McNeal
Cody Schrader
Lamonte Bell
Arie Grey
Nate Cook
Brandon Vancleeve
Ryan Johnson
Shaun Ross
Mike McCafferty
Blake Wolf
Mike Quast
Raymund Sebestyen
Brent Swaggert
Mataio Toilolo
Paul Diercks
Pat Carahasen
Corey Smith
Scott Turnquist
Frank Green
Johathan Taylor
Jon Montoya
Nick Morasko

Kramer was 0-11 in his first year. It takes time to build a successful program. He had to develop the talent and change the culture. It is exactly what Choate is doing. Give it some time. Good results are in the future.

Mr Lisle · Post by **Mr Lisle** » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:56 pm

Cataholic wrote:
Mr Lisle wrote:
77matcat wrote:I observed that Kramer took over a team with little talent but still managed to go to the playoffs over 50% of his years, while Ash took over a team that was loaded but didn't manage to get to the playoffs 50% of the time.

Oh....... I also saw what building the best venue in FCS does for recruiting talent.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I keep seeing Kramer arrived to an empty cupboard and I don't buy it. Here is who Cliff left him...and more:

Adam Cordeiro
Ryan Elliott
Jay Hackett
Brian McNeal
Cody Schrader
Lamonte Bell
Arie Grey
Nate Cook
Brandon Vancleeve
Ryan Johnson
Shaun Ross
Mike McCafferty
Blake Wolf
Mike Quast
Raymund Sebestyen
Brent Swaggert
Mataio Toilolo
Paul Diercks
Pat Carahasen
Corey Smith
Scott Turnquist
Frank Green
Johathan Taylor
Jon Montoya
Nick Morasko
Kramer was 0-11 in his first year. It takes time to build a successful program. He had to develop the talent and change the culture. It is exactly what Choate is doing. Give it some time. Good results are in the future.

onceacat · Post by **onceacat** » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:11 pm

Mr Lisle wrote:
Cataholic wrote:
Mr Lisle wrote:
77matcat wrote:I observed that Kramer took over a team with little talent but still managed to go to the playoffs over 50% of his years, while Ash took over a team that was loaded but didn't manage to get to the playoffs 50% of the time.

Oh....... I also saw what building the best venue in FCS does for recruiting talent.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I keep seeing Kramer arrived to an empty cupboard and I don't buy it. Here is who Cliff left him...and more:

Adam Cordeiro
Ryan Elliott
Jay Hackett
Brian McNeal
Cody Schrader
Lamonte Bell
Arie Grey
Nate Cook
Brandon Vancleeve
Ryan Johnson
Shaun Ross
Mike McCafferty
Blake Wolf
Mike Quast
Raymund Sebestyen
Brent Swaggert
Mataio Toilolo
Paul Diercks
Pat Carahasen
Corey Smith
Scott Turnquist
Frank Green
Johathan Taylor
Jon Montoya
Nick Morasko
Kramer was 0-11 in his first year. It takes time to build a successful program. He had to develop the talent and change the culture. It is exactly what Choate is doing. Give it some time. Good results are in the future.

Just out of curiosity, what do you consider Ash's 65% win percentage and the Cats 7 or 8 consecutive years of continuous rankings in the top 25? One 5-6 season does not make this an unsuccessful program. Turning a 5-6 team one season out from a playoff bid into a bottom feeder?

You got some 'splainin to do.

Choate needs to start winning some games, and soon, or else his apologists are going to run out of excuses.

Note: I think there are two winnable games left on the schedule. But Choate was not hired to take a program with one bad season to the bottom of all FCS. He was hired to turn a winning program into national champions.

Don't ever forget that-this was a top 10 program a little more than one year ago.

wbtfg · Post by **wbtfg** » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:23 pm

Choate is a Chris Peterson guy. Peterson at UW...2014: 8-6 (4-5), 2015: 7-6 (4-5), 2016: 6-0 (3-0) ranked #5

Give choate 3 years before judgement (I know this will never happen with the mouth breathers in the room, but maybe there's a slight chance for a modicum of reasonable thought).

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Griznationalist · Post by **Griznationalist** » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:25 pm

onceacat wrote:
Mr Lisle wrote:
Cataholic wrote:
Mr Lisle wrote:
77matcat wrote:I observed that Kramer took over a team with little talent but still managed to go to the playoffs over 50% of his years, while Ash took over a team that was loaded but didn't manage to get to the playoffs 50% of the time.

Oh....... I also saw what building the best venue in FCS does for recruiting talent.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I keep seeing Kramer arrived to an empty cupboard and I don't buy it. Here is who Cliff left him...and more:

Adam Cordeiro
Ryan Elliott
Jay Hackett
Brian McNeal
Cody Schrader
Lamonte Bell
Arie Grey
Nate Cook
Brandon Vancleeve
Ryan Johnson
Shaun Ross
Mike McCafferty
Blake Wolf
Mike Quast
Raymund Sebestyen
Brent Swaggert
Mataio Toilolo
Paul Diercks
Pat Carahasen
Corey Smith
Scott Turnquist
Frank Green
Johathan Taylor
Jon Montoya
Nick Morasko
Kramer was 0-11 in his first year. It takes time to build a successful program. He had to develop the talent and change the culture. It is exactly what Choate is doing. Give it some time. Good results are in the future.
Just out of curiosity, what do you consider Ash's 65% win percentage and the Cats 7 or 8 consecutive years of continuous rankings in the top 25? One 5-6 season does not make this an unsuccessful program. Turning a 5-6 team one season out from a playoff bid into a bottom feeder?

You got some 'splainin to do.

Choate needs to start winning some games, and soon, or else his apologists are going to run out of excuses.

Note: I think there are two winnable games left on the schedule. But Choate was not hired to take a program with one bad season to the bottom of all FCS. He was hired to turn a winning program into national champions.

Don't ever forget that-this was a top 10 program a little more than one year ago.

I find a 50% win ratio to be unacceptable, therefore, a 65% ratio to be mediocre. But that is just my opinion. Maybe my expectations are unreasonably high.

Here2inform · Post by **Here2inform** » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:39 pm

wbtfg wrote:Choate is a Chris Peterson guy. Peterson at UW...2014: 8-6 (4-5), 2015: 7-6 (4-5), 2016: 6-0 (3-0) ranked #5

Give choate 3 years before judgement (I know this will never happen with the mouth breathers in the room, but maybe there's a slight chance for a modicum of reasonable thought).

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I hope Choate gets at least 5 years to prove how good of a coach he is. Do not limit a mastermind of football to just 3 years! For Gods sakes!!!!

onceacat · Post by **onceacat** » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:52 pm

Griznationalist wrote:
onceacat wrote:
Mr Lisle wrote:
Cataholic wrote:
Mr Lisle wrote:
77matcat wrote:I observed that Kramer took over a team with little talent but still managed to go to the playoffs over 50% of his years, while Ash took over a team that was loaded but didn't manage to get to the playoffs 50% of the time.

Oh....... I also saw what building the best venue in FCS does for recruiting talent.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I keep seeing Kramer arrived to an empty cupboard and I don't buy it. Here is who Cliff left him...and more:

Adam Cordeiro
Ryan Elliott
Jay Hackett
Brian McNeal
Cody Schrader
Lamonte Bell
Arie Grey
Nate Cook
Brandon Vancleeve
Ryan Johnson
Shaun Ross
Mike McCafferty
Blake Wolf
Mike Quast
Raymund Sebestyen
Brent Swaggert
Mataio Toilolo
Paul Diercks
Pat Carahasen
Corey Smith
Scott Turnquist
Frank Green
Johathan Taylor
Jon Montoya
Nick Morasko
Kramer was 0-11 in his first year. It takes time to build a successful program. He had to develop the talent and change the culture. It is exactly what Choate is doing. Give it some time. Good results are in the future.
Just out of curiosity, what do you consider Ash's 65% win percentage and the Cats 7 or 8 consecutive years of continuous rankings in the top 25? One 5-6 season does not make this an unsuccessful program. Turning a 5-6 team one season out from a playoff bid into a bottom feeder?

You got some 'splainin to do.

Choate needs to start winning some games, and soon, or else his apologists are going to run out of excuses.

Note: I think there are two winnable games left on the schedule. But Choate was not hired to take a program with one bad season to the bottom of all FCS. He was hired to turn a winning program into national champions.

Don't ever forget that-this was a top 10 program a little more than one year ago.
I find a 50% win ratio to be unacceptable, therefore, a 65% ratio to be mediocre. But that is just my opinion. Maybe my expectations are unreasonably high.

Good-to-great. How much patience would the Griz, Bizon, or EWU have for a coach going 2-9?

wbtfg · Post by **wbtfg** » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:58 pm

Here2inform wrote:
wbtfg wrote:Choate is a Chris Peterson guy. Peterson at UW...2014: 8-6 (4-5), 2015: 7-6 (4-5), 2016: 6-0 (3-0) ranked #5

Give choate 3 years before judgement (I know this will never happen with the mouth breathers in the room, but maybe there's a slight chance for a modicum of reasonable thought).

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I hope Choate gets at least 5 years to prove how good of a coach he is. Do not limit a mastermind of football to just 3 years! For Gods sakes!!!!

Thanks for the input Jeremy.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

wbtfg · Post by **wbtfg** » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 pm

77matcat · Post by **77matcat** » Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:17 pm

Mr lisle

I agree that list of players were pretty good. Believe most of them played for Kramer for a least a couple of years so they were pretty young Kramers first year.

If you go 0/11 you have to admit that the overall strength of the team talent was not stellar.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

jdevries · Post by **jdevries** » Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:47 pm

All of you are great posters on this site! But no one has caught the main point of this post when I wrote it. 10 Bonus Points and a drink at your favorite bar for the first guy to catch it.

Bobcat For Life

go96griz · Post by **go96griz** » Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:15 pm

jdevries wrote:32 Year Bobcat/Grizzly Head Coach Comparison

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwHrWR ... sp=sharing

I had a long post planned,... but you can make your own observations from this.

Stitt's win % is incorrect in your chart. You have him at 46.1%. I believe he is currently 13-6, closer to 65%.

Cataholic · Post by **Cataholic** » Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:40 pm

onceacat wrote:
Mr Lisle wrote:
Cataholic wrote:
Mr Lisle wrote:
77matcat wrote:I observed that Kramer took over a team with little talent but still managed to go to the playoffs over 50% of his years, while Ash took over a team that was loaded but didn't manage to get to the playoffs 50% of the time.

Oh....... I also saw what building the best venue in FCS does for recruiting talent.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I keep seeing Kramer arrived to an empty cupboard and I don't buy it. Here is who Cliff left him...and more:

Adam Cordeiro
Ryan Elliott
Jay Hackett
Brian McNeal
Cody Schrader
Lamonte Bell
Arie Grey
Nate Cook
Brandon Vancleeve
Ryan Johnson
Shaun Ross
Mike McCafferty
Blake Wolf
Mike Quast
Raymund Sebestyen
Brent Swaggert
Mataio Toilolo
Paul Diercks
Pat Carahasen
Corey Smith
Scott Turnquist
Frank Green
Johathan Taylor
Jon Montoya
Nick Morasko
Kramer was 0-11 in his first year. It takes time to build a successful program. He had to develop the talent and change the culture. It is exactly what Choate is doing. Give it some time. Good results are in the future.
Just out of curiosity, what do you consider Ash's 65% win percentage and the Cats 7 or 8 consecutive years of continuous rankings in the top 25? One 5-6 season does not make this an unsuccessful program. Turning a 5-6 team one season out from a playoff bid into a bottom feeder?

You got some 'splainin to do.

Choate needs to start winning some games, and soon, or else his apologists are going to run out of excuses.

Note: I think there are two winnable games left on the schedule. But Choate was not hired to take a program with one bad season to the bottom of all FCS. He was hired to turn a winning program into national champions.

Don't ever forget that-this was a top 10 program a little more than one year ago.

Please give the Ash stuff a rest. He is gone. I liked Ash and am grateful for his tenure, but it was time for a change. Have you read any of the comments from our players? When JP Flynn was ready to quit football after last year to now feeling "revitalized" with the new regime, it should tell you something.

I have not forgot about our top 10 standing at the beginning of last season. I have also not forgot about our 5-6 train wreck of a season last year. I have not forgot about our disastrous defense last year. I have not forgot about dropping out of the Top 25 for the first time in 7 years. I have not forgot about the late season collapses or defeats to our rivals. Lots of disappointments in the past couple of years under Ash. Our program was clearly regressing. There was substantial evidence to back this up.

As for Choate, our team is nowhere near the bottom of FCS (did you see Mississippi Valley State in Missoula). We have been competitive all season except for one half where we had an 18 year old quarterback, our best cornerback out, multiple turnovers and 10+ freshman or sophomores playing significant time. If this is not the definition of "rebuilding", I am not sure what is.

AlphaGriz1 · Post by **AlphaGriz1** » Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:48 pm

#clueless

jdevries · Post by **jdevries** » Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:00 am

Cataholic wrote:
onceacat wrote:
Mr Lisle wrote:
Cataholic wrote:
Mr Lisle wrote:
77matcat wrote:I observed that Kramer took over a team with little talent but still managed to go to the playoffs over 50% of his years, while Ash took over a team that was loaded but didn't manage to get to the playoffs 50% of the time.

Oh....... I also saw what building the best venue in FCS does for recruiting talent.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I keep seeing Kramer arrived to an empty cupboard and I don't buy it. Here is who Cliff left him...and more:

Adam Cordeiro
Ryan Elliott
Jay Hackett
Brian McNeal
Cody Schrader
Lamonte Bell
Arie Grey
Nate Cook
Brandon Vancleeve
Ryan Johnson
Shaun Ross
Mike McCafferty
Blake Wolf
Mike Quast
Raymund Sebestyen
Brent Swaggert
Mataio Toilolo
Paul Diercks
Pat Carahasen
Corey Smith
Scott Turnquist
Frank Green
Johathan Taylor
Jon Montoya
Nick Morasko
Kramer was 0-11 in his first year. It takes time to build a successful program. He had to develop the talent and change the culture. It is exactly what Choate is doing. Give it some time. Good results are in the future.
Just out of curiosity, what do you consider Ash's 65% win percentage and the Cats 7 or 8 consecutive years of continuous rankings in the top 25? One 5-6 season does not make this an unsuccessful program. Turning a 5-6 team one season out from a playoff bid into a bottom feeder?

You got some 'splainin to do.

Choate needs to start winning some games, and soon, or else his apologists are going to run out of excuses.

Note: I think there are two winnable games left on the schedule. But Choate was not hired to take a program with one bad season to the bottom of all FCS. He was hired to turn a winning program into national champions.

Don't ever forget that-this was a top 10 program a little more than one year ago.
Please give the Ash stuff a rest. He is gone. I liked Ash and am grateful for his tenure, but it was time for a change. Have you read any of the comments from our players? When JP Flynn was ready to quit football after last year to now feeling "revitalized" with the new regime, it should tell you something.

I have not forgot about our top 10 standing at the beginning of last season. I have also not forgot about our 5-6 train wreck of a season last year. I have not forgot about our disastrous defense last year. I have not forgot about dropping out of the Top 25 for the first time in 7 years. I have not forgot about the late season collapses or defeats to our rivals. Lots of disappointments in the past couple of years under Ash. Our program was clearly regressing. There was substantial evidence to back this up.

As for Choate, our team is nowhere near the bottom of FCS (did you see Mississippi Valley State in Missoula). We have been competitive all season except for one half where we had an 18 year old quarterback, our best cornerback out, multiple turnovers and 10+ freshman or sophomores playing significant time. If this is not the definition of "rebuilding", I am not sure what is.

With all due respect to my fellow Bobcat fan, this kind of thinking is exactly why we are not playing for National titles anymore and are instead stuck in mediocrity.

What is the big difference over 32 years of history between these 2 Montana programs?

Look "Bigger Picture" than simple gameday excuses!

Bobcat For Life

Cat Grad · Post by **Cat Grad** » Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:08 am

go96griz wrote:
jdevries wrote:32 Year Bobcat/Grizzly Head Coach Comparison

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwHrWR ... sp=sharing

I had a long post planned,... but you can make your own observations from this.
Stitt's win % is incorrect in your chart. You have him at 46.1%. I believe he is currently 13-6, closer to 65%.

The chart only showscthe first year record.