Bruggman needs to take a seat

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jdevries
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Re: Bruggman needs to take a seat

Post by jdevries » Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:01 pm

Here is Iowa State reporter and Head Coach Paul Rhoades explaining Courtney Messingham's Offense,...and their struggles to be effective in 2013.

There have been missed reads on the run and through the air.
Throws out of bounds.
Dropped passes and penalties at particularly damaging times.
It’s a formula for low rankings, inconsistency and a parade of three and outs.
How to fix it?
Where to start?

“Protection, play calls, accuracy, catching the ball,” said Cyclones coach Paul Rhoads, whose team has lost seven of its past eight Big 12 games. “All of them play into it. And if you look at times when we weren’t successful, you could point to a number of things — a drop, an inaccurate pass, a play call that you;d like to have back, not enough time in the pocket to follow through with a full play. So things gotta line up with all those things for you to have success. The more things you do right, the more success you’re going to have. Any time you stumble, any time you trip along the way, your chances of success decrease.”


Does this sound like JP Flynn explaining our offense post game?? It sure does to me.

Paul Rhoades was fired last year after seven seasons.....If you're going to get an OC, wouldn't you try and get one from a winning program, not one that was mired in mediocrity? So here we are, 3 years later and Coach Choate and our veteran offensive lineman and making almost the same WORD FOR WORD description of Messingham's offensive struggles. Including the worst part to me,...blaming the players for "not executing". Certainly players have some ownership, but ultimately the coaches need to put the kids in better positions to be successful than they have. Look what Choate and Gregorak have done in 1 off season with our defense. It's ALL about coaching. Bruggman can play,.....he just needs to be shown how to do it the right way and to be put in better positions to succeed.


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Re: Bruggman needs to take a seat

Post by VimSince03 » Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:21 pm

MSU_MountainsandMoreMountains wrote:
VimSince03 wrote:
MSU_MountainsandMoreMountains wrote:
VimSince03 wrote:
MSU_MountainsandMoreMountains wrote:
VimSince03 wrote:
Hawks86 wrote:
MSU_MountainsandMoreMountains wrote:
Again, just a cat fan here who is sick of mediocrity. If I were a griz fan, I would not waste my time posting on another team's forum--which is more than I can say for you. I wish I had as much time to waste on BN and Egriz as you do, VimSince03, but unfortunately I have a job, family, etc. and other obligations.
But that is what they do. They start out posting as Cat fans and are soon exposed. If you don't have time. How do you know about Vim?
I update Egriz on Montana recruits and occasionally talk football with them. Some good dudes over their who are passionate about their team. Funny that he starts posting today....and calls me out for wasting my time. I do the Montana recruits page because I like to and my job allows me freedom that most would envy. I'm lucky. 8)
"Occasionally"...? I'm not even going to address that, because you and I BOTH know that isn't true :lol:

If you don't recognize the amount of time you spend on the forums as wasted, that is your problem, not mine. Again, I won't address that as we likely won't come to terms.

"My job allows me freedom that most would envy." Yada, yada, yada, I spend too much time on BN and Egriz but the internet allows me anonymity so I don't have to validate any of this and no one actually envies the fact that I have the time to sit on BN and Egriz all day.

We're obviously not going to see eye to eye on Bobcat football, or life in general. So, this is goodbye, Vimsince :-({|=
12 posts in...that was a quick goodbye. See ya bud!

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Wow... After everything I said I really was anticipating a stronger rebuttal. I'd like to apologize for the things I said before. When I insinuated that you are on BN and Egriz all day because you have nothing better to do, I didn't ACTUALLY think it was true. Again, my apologies and best of luck.
You said goodbye, didn't know I was supposed to rebuttal. I can't keep up with these rule changes for being a troll. Say something of substance and I'll give you a strong rebuttal. That simple. So far you have basically brought up Prukop and the Bobcats not being good. Anything else?
Probably not because if you can (with a straight-face) argue that the Bobcats are good, then we're likely wasting our time.
Lets start with a simple strengths and weaknesses discussion. I've been very open with this team's weaknesses so far.


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Re: Bruggman needs to take a seat

Post by LTown Cat » Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:45 pm

I get concerned about perceived strengths being used to their strength and not set up to fail. See Brekke--I feel he isn't being used to his strengths. Myself and many came into the season thinking RB was a huge strength. Right now it looks like Chad and everyone else. Unfortunately everyone else hasn't looked so hot thus far...
On this site the use of players to their strengths and using schemes that fit your personnel was discussed at length over the last 2 seasons concerning the defense. It is amazing to me how that script has flipped. I'm not one that has thrown in the towel on TB. I see a lot of things he does do serviceably if not well. Adapting scheme to his strengths would help tremendously.



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Re: Bruggman needs to take a seat

Post by jdevries » Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:51 pm

LTown Cat wrote:I get concerned about perceived strengths being used to their strength and not set up to fail. See Brekke--I feel he isn't being used to his strengths. Myself and many came into the season thinking RB was a huge strength. Right now it looks like Chad and everyone else. Unfortunately everyone else hasn't looked so hot thus far...
On this site the use of players to their strengths and using schemes that fit your personnel was discussed at length over the last 2 seasons concerning the defense. It is amazing to me how that script has flipped. I'm not one that has thrown in the towel on TB. I see a lot of things he does do serviceably if not well. Adapting scheme to his strengths would help tremendously.
Agree LTown. This offense is Messy. (PUN fully intended) Hopefully they will get things tightened up soon. Despite his lack of accuracy last game, Bruggman can spin it. His feet are nervous, he's not set, and he doesn't get rid of the ball with anticipation, especially under duress. Howver, in the D2 WO game (when the pass rush was not as strong) he threw several Lazer strikes across the middle of the field.... in very tight windows. This kid can throw! But we need a system that makes him feel comfortable to step into throws, and also forces him to get rid of the ball on time.

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Re: Bruggman needs to take a seat

Post by Colter_Nuanez » Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:37 pm

“Tyler was in a funk and yesterday I had to drag him out of it a little bit,” Choate said. “He takes things very seriously and very personally. There’s no one individual who ever wins or loses a football game. This is the greatest team sport in the world for a reason. I can point to many, many examples in that game where Tyler made the right decision, the right throw and gave us opportunities. I know he is going to beat himself up over it but his teammates have his back and so do we as coaches. I think he knows how he carries himself is respected by his team and certainly by us. He’s a very humble, hard-working young man who wants to do better. No one tries to go out there trying to make mistakes.”



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Re: Bruggman needs to take a seat

Post by utucats » Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:25 pm

Glad TB takes it personal. This is a competitive sport and he's the starting QB for a program that has high expectations. As a player he should be happy to be in this situation. Passionate fan base=a lot of scrutiny. That's just the way it works. TB will remain the starter and if he's bummed about the current view of many he has the opportunity to change it. That's all anyone can ask for is an opportunity. It's up to him what he does with it. Criticism comes with the territory so hopefully he can show the courage to shrug it off and improve his game. The line between love and hate is thin with a fanbase so how TB is perceived by the faithful is entirely up to him.


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Re: Bruggman needs to take a seat

Post by CelticCat » Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:47 am

As others have said, and I've said myself, Bruggman just needs to get out of his own head. He clearly has the physical tools. I don't know if he will get there or not, but his problems are fixable more so than if a guy just didn't have the physical side of things. He has a cannon despite what some people on there think, I just think he sometimes floats balls because either A) he doesn't fully grasp the speed of D1 defenders yet, or B) trying to make the ball as easy to catch for his receiver as he can. But he had a plan, don't remember what quarter, but where were inside our own 20 or so and he just flicked the ball about 50 yards, to D'Agosotino maybe, can't remember.

Someone else summed it up quite well when they said he just doesn't play with enough urgency. He is almost too cool and collected.


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Re: Bruggman needs to take a seat

Post by jdevries » Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:34 pm

I don't see cool and collected. Maybe his game time "demeanor" is cool and collected, (that's what the players say about him) but TBs throwing motion is not. Denarious McGhee? ..... that was cool and collected. DMs feet were solid, each step had a purpose, he planted himself in the ground on every throw. Always. DM also had a great internal clock, and threw the ball on time with tremendous anticipation. TBs feet are choppy, scattered, and he moves like he's nervous rather than confident. He looks like he over thinks throws, waiting to long to "make sure the WR is open".

A few more timing/spot routes could get him on track IMO. I think he's a good QB if he improves mechanically. He also is more effective up tempo, (when he has less time to think) and plays on instinct.

Hopefully we adjust the plan to fit his strengths....

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Re: Bruggman needs to take a seat

Post by CARDIAC_CATS » Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:58 pm

jdevries wrote:I don't see cool and collected. Maybe his game time "demeanor" is cool and collected, (that's what the players say about him) but TBs throwing motion is not. Denarious McGhee? ..... that was cool and collected. DMs feet were solid, each step had a purpose, he planted himself in the ground on every throw. Always. DM also had a great internal clock, and threw the ball on time with tremendous anticipation. TBs feet are choppy, scattered, and he moves like he's nervous rather than confident. He looks like he over thinks throws, waiting to long to "make sure the WR is open".

A few more timing/spot routes could get him on track IMO. I think he's a good QB if he improves mechanically. He also is more effective up tempo, (when he has less time to think) and plays on instinct.

Hopefully we adjust the plan to fit his strengths....

Bobcat For Life
I totally agree. Give home some 3 step drop quick fire throws (those are just as good as runs for 5 yards), bubble screens, TE Rollout quick passes, and then some quick strikes down the field. That will help give him some confidence and tempo. I hope they also start doing some play action when running Newell (QB up under center). The D swarms against Newell, hit them back hard on play action where it counts.



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Re: Bruggman needs to take a seat

Post by VimSince03 » Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:36 pm

Cataholic wrote:
technoCat wrote:
CelticCat wrote:
VimSince03 wrote:I know most of Bobcatnation wants to put this all on Bruggman and like I said, 15 of 36 is 15 of 36. But yesterday I saw an ENTIRE offense that lacked a legitimate playmaker to step up other than Chad (and he had a very crucial fumble lost). The QB play needs to improve but lets maybe talk a little bit about the receivers. Erase the overthrows because those are on Bruggman and timing but I think a player that needs to be held a little more accountable is Mitch Herbert. He is supposed to be our go-to guy, the player that can make the contested catch when covered. Right now, he is simply not doing enough at his position. Corners are winning battles against him this year and right now he looks like a possession receiver to me. There was again a throw in the endzone that was put up their for Mitch and the corner defended it out of his hands. But Mitch needs to catch that ball and use his body a little more. He needs to help out his quarterback in my opinion. I thought the offense line played well against the front seven of UND yesterday but then a few bad snaps and two costly false start penalties put us immediately in 1st (or 2nd) and long situations. Then there were some bad drops yesterday that need to be mentioned as well. Bruggman continues to be my #1 concern (the defensive ends proved to me that they can hold up yesterday) but this offense needs to stop digging itself into holes or else this will be a long season. As JP stated, it seems to be a domino effect when its not one guy, its the other guy, and so forth. Overall, I thought Messingham called a decent game yesterday (and I thought that before Choate stated it in his press conference). I disagree with putting Murray in there on the same drive Bruggman is opertaing and I also think Murray needs even more chances. Lets start running a real "two-QB" system instead of just flirting with it. Frankly, I think it helps both quarterbacks and it keeps defenses honest.

One thing that most are forgetting as well, UND has a very good defense and deserves credit. Our offense is pretty average but they are a good defensive football team. I liked how physical we played yesterday.
My thoughts exactly. Bruggman isn't playing well, but outside of a few guys, nobody on the offense is. Of course maybe I'm wrong because I've only watched the games on TV, several posters have been making it sound like guys are running wide open all over the place and Bruggman just isn't finding them. If that is true, then it is more serious than I thought.

Neale is struggling with his shotgun snaps, receivers aren't making plays, Brekke is a complete non-factor, even Newell fumbled the ball that turned into a score, and Bruggman is late with this throws and has struggled with inconsistency. Apparently we don't have anyone outside of Newell and Brekke, I don't think anyone else even got a carry against UND.

Kassis was the only bright spot on offense the entire day.
Bruggman has missed at least 8 throws this year to players that were wide open. Like 15 yards from the nearest defender. On a couple he was being rushed but most were overthrows.

LaSane was in jeans Saturday but I don't know why James/Jones/Pegues didn't get some touches. Brekke has lost his mojo. Not sure what's going on there but last year he catches that wheel route I think.

The truth of the matter is that we looked like a team that should have beat ND by two scores. We just couldn't get out of our own way. We had a definite chance to score at the end of the first half but let a good 30 seconds run off of the last minute standing around waiting for a play. We hit big plays but never really took advantage of them until the Kassis throw at the end(I think that might have been the first play they didn't leave a safety deep). Messingham needs to take the sweeps and 5 yards outs out of the game plan or minimize them as they are just too high risk/low reward. Bruggman needs to learn how to throw with accuracy to his left(and if he can't as a junior I don't hold out much hope).
I normally agree with Vim on most things but not this view on Herbert. He is still our most reliable receiver. He is getting matched with the best corner and ND had some big physical guys. Messingham has to figure out a way to free up Mitch more. The guy can catch a ball thrown five rows into the stands. Our Mr Dependable.

Kassis is going to be a stud and should get lots of time moving forward. Johnny D is a great player but had a tough game. He broke stride on a deep pass that would have been a TD. Looked like TB overthrew but Johhny D clearly slowed up as the ball was launched. The interception/pick was thrown high but I thought it was catchable. It is easy for me to say that as Johnny was dinged up on that play going for the ball. A better pass would have been a reception for sure.

Brekke actually missed a hole on one of his runs. It was strange as he used to find the smallest hole when it opens up. He just went the wrong the way. Maybe he is still not 100%. I would love to see more Pegues. I thought it was very strange we chosen it to redshirt him then not use him at all. Heck, let's give Jones a chance to carry the ball as a change of pace guy.

Regardless, QB is the big concern right now. If we can get some reliable mistake free play at QB, we will win at least 6 games ,maybe even 7 this year.
Would like to note here that Coach Choate agrees that our receivers could do a little bit better job of winning 50/50 balls and he specifically mentioned Mitch. Wasn't calling him out or anything. Mitch needs to do even more than what is expected of him. Defenses are not struggling to contain any of our receivers right now guys and rewatching the UND game reaffirmed that for me. It would be nice to see Mitch go off in a few games this year. He is a junior whether we like it or not. Juniors need to start produce and Mitch has gotten plenty of targets so far this year. Justin Paige is in that group as well. Johnny D'Agistino and Kevin Kassis have been nice surprises but they are young guys but our upper classmen need to step up. Bruggman has struggled but eventually we are going to start to hit on some of these deep balls, wheel routes, slants, etc. The timing between Tyler and the receivers will only improve from here...hopefully.


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Re: Bruggman needs to take a seat

Post by Anacomando » Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:54 pm

I said this first half of week 1. I compared him to Tyler Thomas. I got crap from other posters. I apologize to Tyler Thomas, he is much better than Bruggman.



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Re: Bruggman needs to take a seat

Post by jdevries » Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:10 pm

CARDIAC_CATS wrote:
jdevries wrote:I don't see cool and collected. Maybe his game time "demeanor" is cool and collected, (that's what the players say about him) but TBs throwing motion is not. Denarious McGhee? ..... that was cool and collected. DMs feet were solid, each step had a purpose, he planted himself in the ground on every throw. Always. DM also had a great internal clock, and threw the ball on time with tremendous anticipation. TBs feet are choppy, scattered, and he moves like he's nervous rather than confident. He looks like he over thinks throws, waiting to long to "make sure the WR is open".

A few more timing/spot routes could get him on track IMO. I think he's a good QB if he improves mechanically. He also is more effective up tempo, (when he has less time to think) and plays on instinct.

Hopefully we adjust the plan to fit his strengths....

Bobcat For Life
I totally agree. Give home some 3 step drop quick fire throws (those are just as good as runs for 5 yards), bubble screens, TE Rollout quick passes, and then some quick strikes down the field. That will help give him some confidence and tempo. I hope they also start doing some play action when running Newell (QB up under center). The D swarms against Newell, hit them back hard on play action where it counts.
Couldn't agree more on the play action..

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Re: Bruggman needs to take a seat

Post by catatac » Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:13 pm

Anacomando wrote:I said this first half of week 1. I compared him to Tyler Thomas. I got crap from other posters. I apologize to Tyler Thomas, he is much better than Bruggman.
Strongly disagree with this, and am bookmarking it to revisit. TB is going to put up some huge numbers in games this year before it's all said and done.


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Re: Bruggman needs to take a seat

Post by Anacomando » Tue Sep 27, 2016 3:06 pm

catatac wrote:
Anacomando wrote:I said this first half of week 1. I compared him to Tyler Thomas. I got crap from other posters. I apologize to Tyler Thomas, he is much better than Bruggman.
Strongly disagree with this, and am bookmarking it to revisit. TB is going to put up some huge numbers in games this year before it's all said and done.

Yes, go do that, I'm sure you'll highlight it after a 14/35 performance against Sac St. I will bet you Bruggman either won't play against Griz or not throw a TD in that game and is under 50% completion. Bookmark it at the beginning of your cute book because Bruggman won't be in it at the end.



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Re: Bruggman needs to take a seat

Post by imacat » Tue Sep 27, 2016 3:51 pm

Helcat72 wrote:Saw post game interview with Choate. He said Messingham called a great game. He said he was dissappointed in the fact we couldn't execute in the passing game and made too many mistakes for that kind of opponent He said we matched ND in every catagory.....except 5 TO's.....end of story.

He didn't mention any names as the causes of the non-execution however!
I saw that also and that statement is a head scratcher. Raises red flags for me.



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Re: Bruggman needs to take a seat

Post by catatac » Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:16 pm

Anacomando wrote:
catatac wrote:
Anacomando wrote:I said this first half of week 1. I compared him to Tyler Thomas. I got crap from other posters. I apologize to Tyler Thomas, he is much better than Bruggman.
Strongly disagree with this, and am bookmarking it to revisit. TB is going to put up some huge numbers in games this year before it's all said and done.

Yes, go do that, I'm sure you'll highlight it after a 14/35 performance against Sac St. I will bet you Bruggman either won't play against Griz or not throw a TD in that game and is under 50% completion. Bookmark it at the beginning of your cute book because Bruggman won't be in it at the end.
Uh no... I'm not just talking one game, I'm talking about the rest of the season, and our offense starting to get things clicking as a whole. I sure hope you're wrong about him not playing solid at the end of the season because obviously he's our best option at QB right now or the coaches would be starting someone else Saturday.

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Re: Bruggman needs to take a seat

Post by catatac » Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:20 pm

imacat wrote:
Helcat72 wrote:Saw post game interview with Choate. He said Messingham called a great game. He said he was dissappointed in the fact we couldn't execute in the passing game and made too many mistakes for that kind of opponent He said we matched ND in every catagory.....except 5 TO's.....end of story.

He didn't mention any names as the causes of the non-execution however!
I saw that also and that statement is a head scratcher. Raises red flags for me.
I could name at least seven players that contributed to the fact that we never really got rolling on offense. Yes, one of them is TB..... but he's far from the only one. Drops, wrong routes, missed blocks, false starts, procedure penalties..... talk about shooting ourselves in the foot, multiple times. I really, really thought Chad was going to plow that one in for the 2 pt conversion after they got the penalty. That's not on him, but man that was close.


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Re: Bruggman needs to take a seat

Post by thefrank1 » Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:37 pm

catatac wrote:
imacat wrote:
Helcat72 wrote:Saw post game interview with Choate. He said Messingham called a great game. He said he was dissappointed in the fact we couldn't execute in the passing game and made too many mistakes for that kind of opponent He said we matched ND in every catagory.....except 5 TO's.....end of story.

He didn't mention any names as the causes of the non-execution however!
I saw that also and that statement is a head scratcher. Raises red flags for me.
Keep the faith, Choate is on the correct road to team performance. Praise in public, assist growth in private.


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Re: Bruggman needs to take a seat

Post by bobcat92 » Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:07 pm

thefrank1 wrote:
catatac wrote:
imacat wrote:
Helcat72 wrote:Saw post game interview with Choate. He said Messingham called a great game. He said he was dissappointed in the fact we couldn't execute in the passing game and made too many mistakes for that kind of opponent He said we matched ND in every catagory.....except 5 TO's.....end of story.

He didn't mention any names as the causes of the non-execution however!
I saw that also and that statement is a head scratcher. Raises red flags for me.
Keep the faith, Choate is on the correct road to team performance. Praise in public, assist growth in private.
From the presser on Monday I would have to agree. Choate sees something in TB and he will be the QB this season.



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