August 19 scrimmage

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iaafan
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Re: August 19 scrimmage

Post by iaafan » Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:32 am

Two things have me thinking that MSU could do very well this year. First, the conference is very balanced talent-wise from 1-9. Second, when that's the case coaching can make the difference and I think MSU has a very, very good group. I think by game 3 or 4, not next year, MSU will be firing.



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Re: August 19 scrimmage

Post by Cat Grad » Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:58 am

iaafan wrote:Two things have me thinking that MSU could do very well this year. First, the conference is very balanced talent-wise from 1-9. Second, when that's the case coaching can make the difference and I think MSU has a very, very good group. I think by game 3 or 4, not next year, MSU will be firing.
I choose to think most people who have been around this game for a few years understands that even in a sandlot touch (okay, maybe flag) football league like the Big Sky, the outcome of the game is still determined by the kids who eat more than their fair share of groceries, especially the ones on the defensive line. I really like what Choate has done prior to arriving at MSU and I'm especially happy with the baby buffalo he's brought in to enable this team to have a decent rotation this year. I'm pretty optimistic and can't wait to see how they do over the course of the year.



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Re: August 19 scrimmage

Post by bobcat99 » Mon Aug 22, 2016 8:40 am

We simply just don't have the talent yet.

Brekke/Newell are above-average.

Bruggs is average.

Barth is average.

DL is still meh. I love our coaches there though, so that could easily improve.

WR's are ok. Most of our talent is in the younger guys, but we need a lot more.

LB's are ok. If the McCarthy's start, I like it a lot better.

Our CB's are actually pretty good, safeties are ok. Neither one of them is very good in coverage...could see a lot of broke plays over the top.

Special teams is horrid.

Look, I love Choate and his staff. I think our team will do fine, with a very outside chance of making the playoffs. But they need a year or two to get talent in here. We just don't have much right now.



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Re: August 19 scrimmage

Post by mslacatfan » Mon Aug 22, 2016 8:52 am

bobcat99 wrote:We simply just don't have the talent yet.

Brekke/Newell are above-average.

Bruggs is average.

Barth is average.

DL is still meh. I love our coaches there though, so that could easily improve.

WR's are ok. Most of our talent is in the younger guys, but we need a lot more.

LB's are ok. If the McCarthy's start, I like it a lot better.

Our CB's are actually pretty good, safeties are ok. Neither one of them is very good in coverage...could see a lot of broke plays over the top.

Special teams is horrid.

Look, I love Choate and his staff. I think our team will do fine, with a very outside chance of making the playoffs. But they need a year or two to get talent in here. We just don't have much right now.

Pretty much agree with you. I expect the Cats to be competitive this year, with an outside chance of making the playoffs... but that is about it (hopefully they prove me wrong).

Give it another 2 years and I think this team will be a national championship contender. Even next year, I think the cats will make huge strides.


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Re: August 19 scrimmage

Post by iaafan » Mon Aug 22, 2016 9:06 am

I keep going back to this quote by Choate when he was asked about the team after being hired.

“I’d say this: It’s not broken,” Choate said. “It might need to go in for a tuneup. Sometimes it’s just a little influx of energy, a little different approach.”

I don't think MSU's overall talent level is much different than any team anyone considers to be a top team in the league. If I'm off on this, please give an example of a team that is ahead of MSU.



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Re: August 19 scrimmage

Post by GoCats18 » Mon Aug 22, 2016 9:09 am

We lost games by 5, 8, 17, 6, 11 and 19 points last season. The defense I saw on Friday night was a defense that is being coached correctly, being taught to tackle and they are playing with a lot more energy. What killed us last year......giving up big plays on defense. I don't see that happening this year. Players are stepping up, we brought in some help and these kids are ready to play. I am tired of hearing people talk about the players as being average. I think it was a lack of coaching and leadership that ruined the players and their attitudes last year. The culture around MSU has changed a lot, and I am excited.


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Re: August 19 scrimmage

Post by thefrank1 » Mon Aug 22, 2016 9:17 am

I agree totally with GoCats18. Performance starts at the top with expectations and follow through. The current coaching staff demonstrates excellent skills in this area. They are dynamic committed leaders who establish high expectations and solid fundamentals. I believe this will fix the lackluster gimmicky performances we have seen the last three years. Gimmicks may get you into the playoffs, but you won't win there - sound familiar.

Most positive sign for me is the focus on team and balance. I look forward to attending games with all of you deep into the playoffs this year! Haven't reserved rooms in Frisco yet but....


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Re: August 19 scrimmage

Post by John K » Mon Aug 22, 2016 9:23 am

mslacatfan wrote:
bobcat99 wrote:We simply just don't have the talent yet.

Brekke/Newell are above-average.

Bruggs is average.

Barth is average.

DL is still meh. I love our coaches there though, so that could easily improve.

WR's are ok. Most of our talent is in the younger guys, but we need a lot more.

LB's are ok. If the McCarthy's start, I like it a lot better.

Our CB's are actually pretty good, safeties are ok. Neither one of them is very good in coverage...could see a lot of broke plays over the top.

Special teams is horrid.

Look, I love Choate and his staff. I think our team will do fine, with a very outside chance of making the playoffs. But they need a year or two to get talent in here. We just don't have much right now.

Pretty much agree with you. I expect the Cats to be competitive this year, with an outside chance of making the playoffs... but that is about it (hopefully they prove me wrong).

Give it another 2 years and I think this team will be a national championship contender. Even next year, I think the cats will make huge strides.
I'm usually one of those fans who tends to be pessimistic/realistic about our prospects for the season, but I really think people are underestimating our chances this year. Remember, our talent was good enough last year, that we were picked to win the BSC. That we finished below .500 was more of a reflection of all the apparent internal issues, than it was lack of talent. Sure we lost Prukop and some key guys from the O-line, but I think we're going to be OK at both of those positions this fall. And we have almost all of our key skill position players back from last year. Brekke/Newell should be as good at RB as any duo in the league. Our receivers may not be in the same category as guys like Jefferson, Akpla, or Bleskin, but Herbert is a great possession receiver, and Gates/Paige have good speed. Not to mention some of the younger guys that seem to have lots of potential at that position. I am convinced that just due to being much better fundamentally, the defense will be significantly improved. Maybe not the best defense in the BSC like what we grew accustomed to during most of the last 15 years, but middle of the pack at least. If these things prove to be true, I see us finishing no worse than 5-3/7-4, and maybe a little better, which would put us right in the thick of things for a playoff berth.



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Re: August 19 scrimmage

Post by Cat Grad » Mon Aug 22, 2016 9:26 am

thefrank1 wrote:I agree totally with GoCats18. Performance starts at the top with expectations and follow through. The current coaching staff demonstrates excellent skills in this area. They are dynamic committed leaders who establish high expectations and solid fundamentals. I believe this will fix the lackluster gimmicky performances we have seen the last three years. Gimmicks may get you into the playoffs, but you won't win there - sound familiar.

Most positive sign for me is the focus on team and balance. I look forward to attending games with all of you deep into the playoffs this year! Haven't reserved rooms in Frisco yet but....
Fortunately I have relatives close to Frisco...so either way I'm good. Hope MSU is playing there in January but if not, I don't think it's going to be because of a lack of effort this year. Guess we'll know in about four and half months.



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Re: August 19 scrimmage

Post by iaafan » Mon Aug 22, 2016 9:32 am

I expect MSU will beat Bryant, Western Oregon, @Sac State, and UC Davis.

I expect MSU will win two of the remaining three homes vs. EWU, NAU and UND.

I expect MSU will go 2-2 @ Idaho, UM, SUU, and WSU.



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Re: August 19 scrimmage

Post by 91catAlum » Mon Aug 22, 2016 9:32 am

bobcat99 wrote:We simply just don't have the talent yet.

Brekke/Newell are above-average.

Bruggs is average.

Barth is average.

DL is still meh. I love our coaches there though, so that could easily improve.

WR's are ok. Most of our talent is in the younger guys, but we need a lot more.

LB's are ok. If the McCarthy's start, I like it a lot better.

Our CB's are actually pretty good, safeties are ok. Neither one of them is very good in coverage...could see a lot of broke plays over the top.

Special teams is horrid.

Look, I love Choate and his staff. I think our team will do fine, with a very outside chance of making the playoffs. But they need a year or two to get talent in here. We just don't have much right now.
Bruggman is average based on what? A preseason scrimmage with a red jersey?
Fact is, he's an unknown at this point, just like most of our defense. He might be average, he might be less than that, or he might become something special. At this point, none of us know.


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Re: August 19 scrimmage

Post by John K » Mon Aug 22, 2016 9:39 am

91catAlum wrote:
bobcat99 wrote:We simply just don't have the talent yet.

Brekke/Newell are above-average.

Bruggs is average.

Barth is average.

DL is still meh. I love our coaches there though, so that could easily improve.

WR's are ok. Most of our talent is in the younger guys, but we need a lot more.

LB's are ok. If the McCarthy's start, I like it a lot better.

Our CB's are actually pretty good, safeties are ok. Neither one of them is very good in coverage...could see a lot of broke plays over the top.

Special teams is horrid.

Look, I love Choate and his staff. I think our team will do fine, with a very outside chance of making the playoffs. But they need a year or two to get talent in here. We just don't have much right now.
Bruggman is average based on what? A preseason scrimmage with a red jersey?
Fact is, he's an unknown at this point, just like most of our defense. He might be average, he might be less than that, or he might become something special. At this point, none of us know.
Everyone always expects a big dropoff when you lose a big time QB, but look at the last two times that happened. After Lulay was done, Carpovich led us to the QF of the playoffs. That was Kramer's best season...better than we ever did with Lulay, and those two were no better than average QB's. After McGhee's last season, Prukop led us to the playoffs. If the rest of the team is solid, Bruggman won't have to be spectacular, in order for us to have a very good season,



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Re: August 19 scrimmage

Post by blueandgoldblitz » Mon Aug 22, 2016 9:48 am

91catAlum wrote:
bobcat99 wrote:We simply just don't have the talent yet.

Brekke/Newell are above-average.

Bruggs is average.

Barth is average.

DL is still meh. I love our coaches there though, so that could easily improve.

WR's are ok. Most of our talent is in the younger guys, but we need a lot more.

LB's are ok. If the McCarthy's start, I like it a lot better.

Our CB's are actually pretty good, safeties are ok. Neither one of them is very good in coverage...could see a lot of broke plays over the top.

Special teams is horrid.

Look, I love Choate and his staff. I think our team will do fine, with a very outside chance of making the playoffs. But they need a year or two to get talent in here. We just don't have much right now.
Bruggman is average based on what? A preseason scrimmage with a red jersey?
Fact is, he's an unknown at this point, just like most of our defense. He might be average, he might be less than that, or he might become something special. At this point, none of us know.
The only thing that worries me about Bruggman is his accuracy. I only say this from looking at box scores. I've never actually seen him throw, so I could be off base. Last year, I believe his completion percentage was like 48% which is way too low. In this most recent scrimmage, he was 9-17 which is a completion percentage of 52.9%. That's an improvement, but not by very much. Can anyone clarify if he's actually inaccurate? Or were there dropped balls by wide receivers? Throw aways to the sideline? I'm interested to know what you guys think



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Re: August 19 scrimmage

Post by mslacatfan » Mon Aug 22, 2016 9:53 am

blueandgoldblitz wrote:
91catAlum wrote:
bobcat99 wrote:We simply just don't have the talent yet.

Brekke/Newell are above-average.

Bruggs is average.

Barth is average.

DL is still meh. I love our coaches there though, so that could easily improve.

WR's are ok. Most of our talent is in the younger guys, but we need a lot more.

LB's are ok. If the McCarthy's start, I like it a lot better.

Our CB's are actually pretty good, safeties are ok. Neither one of them is very good in coverage...could see a lot of broke plays over the top.

Special teams is horrid.

Look, I love Choate and his staff. I think our team will do fine, with a very outside chance of making the playoffs. But they need a year or two to get talent in here. We just don't have much right now.
Bruggman is average based on what? A preseason scrimmage with a red jersey?
Fact is, he's an unknown at this point, just like most of our defense. He might be average, he might be less than that, or he might become something special. At this point, none of us know.
The only thing that worries me about Bruggman is his accuracy. I only say this from looking at box scores. I've never actually seen him throw, so I could be off base. Last year, I believe his completion percentage was like 48% which is way too low. In this most recent scrimmage, he was 9-17 which is a completion percentage of 52.9%. That's an improvement, but not by very much. Can anyone clarify if he's actually inaccurate? Or were there dropped balls by wide receivers? Throw aways to the sideline? I'm interested to know what you guys think
From what I have seen I would say the opposite. I think one of his biggest strengths is his accuracy, just from what I have seen. To me he seems to be pretty conservative, which might be a negative?


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Re: August 19 scrimmage

Post by John K » Mon Aug 22, 2016 9:55 am

blueandgoldblitz wrote:
91catAlum wrote:
bobcat99 wrote:We simply just don't have the talent yet.

Brekke/Newell are above-average.

Bruggs is average.

Barth is average.

DL is still meh. I love our coaches there though, so that could easily improve.

WR's are ok. Most of our talent is in the younger guys, but we need a lot more.

LB's are ok. If the McCarthy's start, I like it a lot better.

Our CB's are actually pretty good, safeties are ok. Neither one of them is very good in coverage...could see a lot of broke plays over the top.

Special teams is horrid.

Look, I love Choate and his staff. I think our team will do fine, with a very outside chance of making the playoffs. But they need a year or two to get talent in here. We just don't have much right now.
Bruggman is average based on what? A preseason scrimmage with a red jersey?
Fact is, he's an unknown at this point, just like most of our defense. He might be average, he might be less than that, or he might become something special. At this point, none of us know.
The only thing that worries me about Bruggman is his accuracy. I only say this from looking at box scores. I've never actually seen him throw, so I could be off base. Last year, I believe his completion percentage was like 48% which is way too low. In this most recent scrimmage, he was 9-17 which is a completion percentage of 52.9%. That's an improvement, but not by very much. Can anyone clarify if he's actually inaccurate? Or were there dropped balls by wide receivers? Throw aways to the sideline? I'm interested to know what you guys think
Plus, it depends upon what kind of offense you're running. If he's throwing downfield a lot, his completion percentage is obviously going to be significantly lower than if you're running more of a ball control passing offense, with lots of short throws.



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Re: August 19 scrimmage

Post by blueandgoldblitz » Mon Aug 22, 2016 9:58 am

mslacatfan wrote:
blueandgoldblitz wrote:
91catAlum wrote:
bobcat99 wrote:We simply just don't have the talent yet.

Brekke/Newell are above-average.

Bruggs is average.

Barth is average.

DL is still meh. I love our coaches there though, so that could easily improve.

WR's are ok. Most of our talent is in the younger guys, but we need a lot more.

LB's are ok. If the McCarthy's start, I like it a lot better.

Our CB's are actually pretty good, safeties are ok. Neither one of them is very good in coverage...could see a lot of broke plays over the top.

Special teams is horrid.

Look, I love Choate and his staff. I think our team will do fine, with a very outside chance of making the playoffs. But they need a year or two to get talent in here. We just don't have much right now.
Bruggman is average based on what? A preseason scrimmage with a red jersey?
Fact is, he's an unknown at this point, just like most of our defense. He might be average, he might be less than that, or he might become something special. At this point, none of us know.
The only thing that worries me about Bruggman is his accuracy. I only say this from looking at box scores. I've never actually seen him throw, so I could be off base. Last year, I believe his completion percentage was like 48% which is way too low. In this most recent scrimmage, he was 9-17 which is a completion percentage of 52.9%. That's an improvement, but not by very much. Can anyone clarify if he's actually inaccurate? Or were there dropped balls by wide receivers? Throw aways to the sideline? I'm interested to know what you guys think
From what I have seen I would say the opposite. I think one of his biggest strengths is his accuracy, just from what I have seen. To me he seems to be pretty conservative, which might be a negative?
Awesome, that's what I've wanted to hear. Where do his misses come from then? Does he throw the ball away a lot? I'm just curious. I can't wait to see him and the rest of the team live in Idaho. It'll be my first Bobcat away game!
John K wrote:Plus, it depends upon what kind of offense you're running. If he's throwing downfield a lot, his completion percentage is obviously going to be significantly lower than if you're running more of a ball control passing offense, with lots of short throws.
Good point. Thanks!



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Re: August 19 scrimmage

Post by VimSince03 » Mon Aug 22, 2016 10:17 am

On the first drive, he was like 5-7 I believe, leading the offense confidently. We will be fine.


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Re: August 19 scrimmage

Post by Grizaddict » Mon Aug 22, 2016 10:26 am

GoldstoneCat wrote:
catscat wrote:
Hawks86 wrote:It's going to take more than one season.
Okay, if you think that, but at least share your rationale. Why will it take more than one season? Isn't Coach Choate better than Coach Ash? Isn't Costello better than Fields? Isn't Gregorak better than what's his name? Are the returning players worse than in other years (overall - not just in this position or that)? Did we not bring in quality transfers and recruits? Are our offensive players less able to learn a new system than back in 2010 to 2012 when we were bringing in a new OC every year? Enquiring minds want to know!
Jeez, I'm optimistic about the future of the program as well, but me, you, nobody has any idea the answers to really any of your questions at this juncture? Even if Costello is the greatest A.D. ever conjured he's been on the job since...June. We all think coach brought in quality transfers, but not one of them has played a down for us! Garrett Marino was going to be Jared Allen, IIRC. Also, I am with you, I like the way coach Choate has addressed moving us into the future, but ash did win a pile of games here; maybe let Choate get a w-l record before we cast his hall of fame plaque. I think we'll be more cohesive, more competitive, and more physical this year, but it's a stretch to me to say our turnaround can be executed that quickly.
From an outsider looking in, this seems to be the most level-headed assessment I've read. I think losing Prukop will hurt more than folks want to admit. I've said before, if there is one position on the team that you need to be completely solid, it's the QB. That player can single-handedly win or lose games regardless of the team that surrounds him. Also, everyone assumes the defense will be better and that transfers will be a key difference maker. It seems that was the outlook prior to last season (that the D had nowhere to go but up and the many transfers Ash brought in would make the difference) and your defense still really struggled. Plus it sounds like your special teams have a very long ways to go and they play a huge role at times as well.

With all that being said, I still think you will see improvement in the program. I think your defense will be a little better due to getting back to basics (proper tackling, positioning, mental toughness, schemes) and I think the toughness and attitude culture will move the needle for the team overall as well. I think you will get a couple more wins this season and finish at a 7-4 mark. Unfortunately a win over the D2 team won't help you in making a case for playoffs with that record, but I see the program trending up from there and only getting better. I do think it will take at least 1-2 years and then the sky could be the limit, no pun intended.



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Re: August 19 scrimmage

Post by iaafan » Mon Aug 22, 2016 10:44 am

Grizaddict: I think you're over emphasizing stats and electric plays. Prukop had those, but when it came to making plays when the game was on the line, or even a first down on a key drive, he didn't come through very often. He was great when the other team had a big lead and perhaps softened up on defense. I don't think too many people are focused on the transfers making the team better, but rather the coaching. The only transfer that is listed as a starter on defense is Walker.



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Re: August 19 scrimmage

Post by catatac » Mon Aug 22, 2016 11:26 am

Cat Grad wrote:Six months ago I honestly did not think we'd win a game this year. The new staff brought a lot of kids in who are going to make an immediate impact, especially on defense. Throw in the coaches working with these kids and yes, I'm optimistic. Is Frisco out of the question? Hell no. Nobody has played a single game yet. Look what Portland State did last year with an attitude adjustment just within our conference. One thing is certain about this year though, and that is the staff is not going to let the kids just participate on any play. They're going to compete or it's the next kid on the sideline each and every play.
What?


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