Kyle Brennan Bails on MSU

[iaafan]

What will Dennis Erickson say to him?

[ilovethecats]

So I totally get what you are saying ilovethecats but I disagree on this situation being a simple "brush off" scenario where a guy just had a change of heart. There is more to the story than the reasons he gave for backing out of the position. For the amount of money we put into the search firm on these candidates, we should have known better than to hire a guy who had a high potential to not want to leave his current job. It means he wasn't the right "fit." I'm glad we got Costello but Cruzado and crew need to learn from this. Nothing should be unexpected in these situations based off the money put into the search.

I am not meaning to say he is completely faultless in this. and I completely agree there is likely more to the story. my point is none of us know what that story is. but if it has to do with his family, specifically his son, I just can't fault the guy too much. and if this was all nothing more than leverage for more money, then i'm happy we didn't get him for that reason too.

i'm just saying that because we don't know the whole story, it's hard to simply say he should have known 100% that he would never change his mind. and when cancer is involved, I know how things change every day, every hour. so if this was a decision he made with his family and his son in mind, that trumps msu sports in my eyes.

[iaafan]

It'll be interesting to see what Brennan's salary is the next time Utah posts it. Wasn't it around $195,000 when he accepted the MSU position?

[Cat Grad]

Gosh everyone. This happens all the time, especially in the spring at teacher job fairs. Especially when you're comparing signing bonuses for critical shortages and moving expenses from district to district. I know his wife has a good position with Utah that has to pay six figures and to leave Salt Lake for what the cost of living that the Gallatin has become would seem to be ridiculous if she had little or no chance of securing a similar position with MSU. I know of several professors who would only relocate if their spouse were to be offered a similar position just like I was always hired with my spouse as a team outside of Montana.

When the national average for a superintendency is less than three years (that's why they are awarded five year contracts in most states) and a principal is less than four years it seems to me their family must have returned to Salt Lake and made family decision based upon facts and data. Coaches and administrators basically never unpack all their bags after the movers deposit them at their new position and yes, it'd be interesting to consider all the other factors such as the difference in the state income tax rates, the property taxes, etc. I'm certain they crunched the numbers when they returned to Salt Lake and it just didn't make sense from an administrative viewpoint.

Just a few years ago, EWU wanted their former quarterback to leave Nick Saban's staff and go to Cheney for about 130k. He was making over 800k at Alabama.

We got the second choice in less than a day.

[RobertCats]

So I totally get what you are saying ilovethecats but I disagree on this situation being a simple "brush off" scenario where a guy just had a change of heart. There is more to the story than the reasons he gave for backing out of the position. For the amount of money we put into the search firm on these candidates, we should have known better than to hire a guy who had a high potential to not want to leave his current job. It means he wasn't the right "fit." I'm glad we got Costello but Cruzado and crew need to learn from this. Nothing should be unexpected in these situations based off the money put into the search.

I am not meaning to say he is completely faultless in this. and I completely agree there is likely more to the story. my point is none of us know what that story is. but if it has to do with his family, specifically his son, I just can't fault the guy too much. and if this was all nothing more than leverage for more money, then i'm happy we didn't get him for that reason too.

i'm just saying that because we don't know the whole story, it's hard to simply say he should have known 100% that he would never change his mind. and when cancer is involved, I know how things change every day, every hour. so if this was a decision he made with his family and his son in mind, that trumps msu sports in my eyes.

I do not have an issue with someone changing their mind regarding a HUGE, life changing decision. What I DO have an issue with is when you do it after accepting the position and going through a freaking introduction ceremony. I do not think he had to be 100% sure when he applied but he sure as hell should have been certain when he accepted. I interviewed with Boeing a couple of years back, was incredibly excited about the position and the move from Great Falls to Federal Way, Washington. I ended up getting offered the position and I told the hiring manager that I just needed to do some more research with my wife and would give them an answer as quickly as I could. That is when my wife and I sat down and made a list of pro's and con's, looked at housing and talked about how this move would change our lives (small town folk raising a family in the big city?). I then talked to my current employer who sweetened the pot and enticed me to stay. I got back with the hiring manager after a day and a half and politely declined. Maybe MSU wanted a decision right away, but I cannot see Cruzado demanding an immediate answer, I am sure she would have given Kyle a day or few to consider everything if he had just asked instead of saying "Yes".

[CelticCat]

Exactly, you can be 90% sure when you apply, but you better be 100% after you accept an offer, at least at a job with the profile of this.

[Lovethecats75]

Just wondering, Kyle who?
Time to move on.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[St George]

Not much good comes out of a state that makes you order food so you can have a beer.

[Bobcat4Ever]

I would be interested to know how much the search firm was actually involved with this candidate. When the announcement of the final candidates was made there were to be four finalists. Brennan was a last second addition. Did he go through the whole process? I am guessing not.

Well said. I have been wondering about this ever since the fifth candidate suddenly appeared, and became the front-runner. Perhaps he was injected into the process and did not have the time ahead to think about the move, prepare the application, etc.

I think we got the right man, and he seems sincerely all in on MSU and the move. UNI has done well, and SDSU has done well and not just in football. Welcome, Mr. Costello.

Go Cats!

[91catAlum]

Gosh everyone. This happens all the time, especially in the spring at teacher job fairs. Especially when you're comparing signing bonuses for critical shortages and moving expenses from district to district. I know his wife has a good position with Utah that has to pay six figures and to leave Salt Lake for what the cost of living that the Gallatin has become would seem to be ridiculous if she had little or no chance of securing a similar position with MSU. I know of several professors who would only relocate if their spouse were to be offered a similar position just like I was always hired with my spouse as a team outside of Montana.

When the national average for a superintendency is less than three years (that's why they are awarded five year contracts in most states) and a principal is less than four years it seems to me their family must have returned to Salt Lake and made family decision based upon facts and data. Coaches and administrators basically never unpack all their bags after the movers deposit them at their new position and yes, it'd be interesting to consider all the other factors such as the difference in the state income tax rates, the property taxes, etc. I'm certain they crunched the numbers when they returned to Salt Lake and it just didn't make sense from an administrative viewpoint.

Just a few years ago, EWU wanted their former quarterback to leave Nick Saban's staff and go to Cheney for about 130k. He was making over 800k at Alabama.

We got the second choice in less than a day.

This is all true, but it's all information that is easily knowable BEFORE you say yes and accept the position.
When MSU calls and offers the job, he could have said thank you very much, and can I please have a few days to check with my family, check housing prices, etc. before I give an answer.
That way, you don't have to quit a week into your new job and look like a bit of an idiot.

[91catAlum]

So I totally get what you are saying ilovethecats but I disagree on this situation being a simple "brush off" scenario where a guy just had a change of heart. There is more to the story than the reasons he gave for backing out of the position. For the amount of money we put into the search firm on these candidates, we should have known better than to hire a guy who had a high potential to not want to leave his current job. It means he wasn't the right "fit." I'm glad we got Costello but Cruzado and crew need to learn from this. Nothing should be unexpected in these situations based off the money put into the search.

I am not meaning to say he is completely faultless in this. and I completely agree there is likely more to the story. my point is none of us know what that story is. but if it has to do with his family, specifically his son, I just can't fault the guy too much. and if this was all nothing more than leverage for more money, then i'm happy we didn't get him for that reason too.

i'm just saying that because we don't know the whole story, it's hard to simply say he should have known 100% that he would never change his mind. and when cancer is involved, I know how things change every day, every hour. so if this was a decision he made with his family and his son in mind, that trumps msu sports in my eyes.

I do not have an issue with someone changing their mind regarding a HUGE, life changing decision. What I DO have an issue with is when you do it after accepting the position and going through a freaking introduction ceremony. I do not think he had to be 100% sure when he applied but he sure as hell should have been certain when he accepted. I interviewed with Boeing a couple of years back, was incredibly excited about the position and the move from Great Falls to Federal Way, Washington. I ended up getting offered the position and I told the hiring manager that I just needed to do some more research with my wife and would give them an answer as quickly as I could. That is when my wife and I sat down and made a list of pro's and con's, looked at housing and talked about how this move would change our lives (small town folk raising a family in the big city?). I then talked to my current employer who sweetened the pot and enticed me to stay. I got back with the hiring manager after a day and a half and politely declined. Maybe MSU wanted a decision right away, but I cannot see Cruzado demanding an immediate answer, I am sure she would have given Kyle a day or few to consider everything if he had just asked instead of saying "Yes".

Exactly!

[PapaG]

When you are making the biggest decision of your career, you need to be 100% sure of your decision before even applying.

I disagree with this approach simply because you don't have all of the information available when just applying for a new job. The interview process is as much as both sides selling themselves to the other as it is anything else. Sometimes what seemed like a great fit upon applying turns into a bad fit after the interview process, which is why you don't accept it if you have reservations.

When you are offered a job, though, you need to be 100% sure about accepting it. If there is any doubt, stay at your current place unless it's unbearable, but even then it's best to take some time off rather than run to another bad fit.

EDIT - what tdub said.

[RAshJudgement]

#dumpsterfire
#inthesh!tpond

[VimSince03]

#dumpsterfire
#inthesh!tpond

These are nice, trendy hashtags that describe University of Montana's current college enrollment situation.

But to correct you on one of them. #InTheStittPond

[Cat Grad]

Gosh everyone. This happens all the time, especially in the spring at teacher job fairs. Especially when you're comparing signing bonuses for critical shortages and moving expenses from district to district. I know his wife has a good position with Utah that has to pay six figures and to leave Salt Lake for what the cost of living that the Gallatin has become would seem to be ridiculous if she had little or no chance of securing a similar position with MSU. I know of several professors who would only relocate if their spouse were to be offered a similar position just like I was always hired with my spouse as a team outside of Montana.

When the national average for a superintendency is less than three years (that's why they are awarded five year contracts in most states) and a principal is less than four years it seems to me their family must have returned to Salt Lake and made family decision based upon facts and data. Coaches and administrators basically never unpack all their bags after the movers deposit them at their new position and yes, it'd be interesting to consider all the other factors such as the difference in the state income tax rates, the property taxes, etc. I'm certain they crunched the numbers when they returned to Salt Lake and it just didn't make sense from an administrative viewpoint.

Just a few years ago, EWU wanted their former quarterback to leave Nick Saban's staff and go to Cheney for about 130k. He was making over 800k at Alabama.

We got the second choice in less than a day.

This is all true, but it's all information that is easily knowable BEFORE you say yes and accept the position.
When MSU calls and offers the job, he could have said thank you very much, and can I please have a few days to check with my family, check housing prices, etc. before I give an answer.
That way, you don't have to quit a week into your new job and look like a bit of an idiot.

All I was saying is this happens all the time in the real world. A search committee in the Power 5 Conferences is a farce in and of itself! The AD, President have a short list and they GO to the individuals they want, not the other way around! You get a phone call at 8:30 or 9:00 at night from the powers that be asking if you're interested in a position, you DO NOT SUBJECT YOURSELF TO THE HUMILIATION OF JUMPING THROUGH HOOPS if you are worth a damn and this crock we have for an application process out here! That, by itself is probably what Brennan's wife pointed out to him after he got back to Salt Lake. Our application process is bush league.

[SonomaCat]

The idea of forming a search committee and taking applications as part of a national search is quite common in Power 5 conferences as well, Cat Grad. The MSU process was not at all unusual and probably borrows heavily from national best practices:

Google is littered with references to search committees for athletic directors for all sorts of Power 5 schools.

https://www.google.com/search?newwindow ... pfwUySJ-5E

If you want the best person for the job, you open up the job nationally to see who applies and pick the best of the litter. If you only want to hire somebody you already know, then you go the route you propose.

I can assure you that many, many, many people have had to suffer the "humiliation" of applying for jobs that pay far more than $185,000 per year and then had to also interview for said job before it was given to them.

[Cat Grad]

The idea of forming a search committee and taking applications as part of a national search is quite common in Power 5 conferences as well, Cat Grad. The MSU process was not at all unusual and probably borrows heavily from national best practices:

Google is littered with references to search committees for athletic directors for all sorts of Power 5 schools.

https://www.google.com/search?newwindow ... pfwUySJ-5E

If you want the best person for the job, you open up the job nationally to see who applies and pick the best of the litter. If you only want to hire somebody you already know, then you go the route you propose.

I can assure you that many, many, many people have had to suffer the "humiliation" of applying for jobs that pay far more than $185,000 per year and then had to also interview for said job before it was given to them.

You know who I used to be married to for what it's worth. Therefore, I'll acquiesce in this instance and discuss this in a private message if you desire. If you think for example, Wayne Hogan (I'm certain you remember the last name!) was fired from his position in Missoula and was "hired" at Georgia Tech for about four times the salary within the week is an oddity, than you still justify our left coast practices. I simply stated, and did not intend to get into a pissing contest in any shape or form, that in the real world, you are sought after and hardly ever apply for a position of any relevance. Your reputation and credentials speak all that needs to be discussed.

[PHAT CAT]

I don't. Who were you married to? Still talk to her?

[SonomaCat]

The idea of forming a search committee and taking applications as part of a national search is quite common in Power 5 conferences as well, Cat Grad. The MSU process was not at all unusual and probably borrows heavily from national best practices:

Google is littered with references to search committees for athletic directors for all sorts of Power 5 schools.

https://www.google.com/search?newwindow ... pfwUySJ-5E

If you want the best person for the job, you open up the job nationally to see who applies and pick the best of the litter. If you only want to hire somebody you already know, then you go the route you propose.

I can assure you that many, many, many people have had to suffer the "humiliation" of applying for jobs that pay far more than $185,000 per year and then had to also interview for said job before it was given to them.

You know who I used to be married to for what it's worth. Therefore, I'll acquiesce in this instance and discuss this in a private message if you desire. If you think for example, Wayne Hogan (I'm certain you remember the last name!) was fired from his position in Missoula and was "hired" at Georgia Tech for about four times the salary within the week is an oddity, than you still justify our left coast practices. I simply stated, and did not intend to get into a pissing contest in any shape or form, that in the real world, you are sought after and hardly ever apply for a position of any relevance. Your reputation and credentials speak all that needs to be discussed.

I have no idea who you used to be married to ... I just concluded that your criticism of MSU didn't make much said and provided evidence to support my conclusion.

[Cat Grad]

The idea of forming a search committee and taking applications as part of a national search is quite common in Power 5 conferences as well, Cat Grad. The MSU process was not at all unusual and probably borrows heavily from national best practices:

Google is littered with references to search committees for athletic directors for all sorts of Power 5 schools.

https://www.google.com/search?newwindow ... pfwUySJ-5E

If you want the best person for the job, you open up the job nationally to see who applies and pick the best of the litter. If you only want to hire somebody you already know, then you go the route you propose.

I can assure you that many, many, many people have had to suffer the "humiliation" of applying for jobs that pay far more than $185,000 per year and then had to also interview for said job before it was given to them.

You know who I used to be married to for what it's worth. Therefore, I'll acquiesce in this instance and discuss this in a private message if you desire. If you think for example, Wayne Hogan (I'm certain you remember the last name!) was fired from his position in Missoula and was "hired" at Georgia Tech for about four times the salary within the week is an oddity, than you still justify our left coast practices. I simply stated, and did not intend to get into a pissing contest in any shape or form, that in the real world, you are sought after and hardly ever apply for a position of any relevance. Your reputation and credentials speak all that needs to be discussed.

I have no idea who you used to be married to ... I just concluded that your criticism of MSU didn't make much said and provided evidence to support my conclusion.

Well good, I'm glad you feel that way. You really expect the great ones to apply for an opening? Really? I mean really? That is not how it's done. You recruit the great ones and throw the resumes away of those who are mediocre at best. Your reputation is all you need when you're good and I believe you know this and just want to argue for whatever reason tonight.