Bobcats to Wazzu 9/2/17

[TIrwin24]

Looks like the game against the Cougs just got bumped up a week.

According to the report, Nevada and WSU agreed a month ago to move the game back three weeks to Sept. 23, 2017. In its place, the Cougars will now open the season on Sept. 2 against Montana State, who was previously scheduled to play on Sept. 16, 2017.

http://www.cougcenter.com/2016/2/10/109 ... ate-nevada

[LongTimeCatFan]

So what does that do to the SDSU game?

[Hawks86]

Looking at the future schedule thread on SDSU's board. I didn't see any other games scheduled. So, hopefully we can just swap dates.

[LongTimeCatFan]

That's what I'm hoping for

[Hi-Line Bobcat]

I'm skeptical we will even play them, due to the movement not to play 1-AA schools. I know Rachac hit on it in an article earlier in the year. I personally hope they play them, because the last trip to Wazzu was a blast.

[bobcatbob]

It has been reported that we will not be playing any Div II schools
in the future. I like that. Play the best!

[Common Cat]

This will be a tough test - the cougs are on their way up and are recruiting really solid players. I married coug haha They are a fun team to root for. Leach has them buying into the system and each other , Grinch their D coordinator has them playing fast swarming defense.

[BleedingBLue]

It has been reported that we will not be playing any Div II schools
in the future. I like that. Play the best!

That would be ideal, but unless we can get a MVFC team to come to us, or schedule a home and home like we did with SDSU with someone it'll be difficult to get D-II teams off the schedule. Especially in the years we are allowed 12 games. I wouldn't mind playing a conference opponent in a non-conference game every year similar to what we did with Eastern though.

[WalkOn79]

It has been reported that we will not be playing any Div II schools
in the future. I like that. Play the best!

That would be ideal, but unless we can get a MVFC team to come to us, or schedule a home and home like we did with SDSU with someone it'll be difficult to get D-II teams off the schedule. Especially in the years we are allowed 12 games. I wouldn't mind playing a conference opponent in a non-conference game every year similar to what we did with Eastern though.

This. We need to play Idaho State and / or Weber in the years they aren't on our conference schedule. These are places we can get to pretty easily, and they are charter schools.

[The MICKSTER]

It has been reported that we will not be playing any Div II schools
in the future. I like that. Play the best!

That would be ideal, but unless we can get a MVFC team to come to us, or schedule a home and home like we did with SDSU with someone it'll be difficult to get D-II teams off the schedule. Especially in the years we are allowed 12 games. I wouldn't mind playing a conference opponent in a non-conference game every year similar to what we did with Eastern though.

This. We need to play Idaho State and / or Weber in the years they aren't on our conference schedule. These are places we can get to pretty easily, and they are charter schools.

I touched on this on a different thread. Until the last few years I haven't been an opponent of an FBS-DII combo on our schedule, but I am an opponent now.

For example I'll give you 2 extremes;

* Idaho State in 2014 had 4 non-conference games in a 12 game season.....2 of them were against DII teams and 2 were against FBS teams. In 2015 they had 3 non-conference games in an 11 game season....1 against a DII team and 2 against FBS teams. Guess what......they beat the DII teams (which counts for bumpkis) and they lost to the FBS teams. That left them each year with 8 FCS opponents (i.e. Big Sky conference games), of which they were required to win 7 of the 8 in order to get to the proverbial 7 DI wins needed to make the playoffs (to put this into perspective only 1 team from the Big Sky conference has won 7 conference games in each of the last 2 seasons...SUU in 2015 & EWU in 2014. Even NDSU did not go undefeated in conference play the last 2 seasons, finishing 7-1 both times) .
* um in 2015 had their 3 non-conference games against FCS opponents. In 2016 they also have their 3 non-conference opponents against FCS schools. When an FCS school is able to schedule all FCS opponents they have a much greater chance of getting to the 7 DI win threshold. In addition, they had/will have 6 home games vs 5 away games.

The CATS in 2015 had 10 FCS opponents & 1 DII opponent. In 2016 the CATS will have 9 FCS opponents, 1 DII opponent, & 1 FBS opponent. Therefore, in 2015 the CATS were in a position where they had to win 7 of 10 games against FCS teams in order to have a realistic chance of making the playoffs. In 2016, IF we loose to Idaho we will need to win 7 of 9 games against FCS teams in order to have a realistic chance of making the playoffs.

My point being, unless and until MSU gets to a point where in an 11 game season their 3 non-conference games are;
* a home portion of a home-home agreement with another FCS team
* an away portion of a home-home agreement with another FCS team
* PAY for an FCS team to come to Bozeman for just that year (i.e. Bryant in 2016?, Central Arkansas in 2014)

We will not be maximizing our chances to get to a 7 DI win season.

Another option to get 11 FCS games in an 11 game season is to have 3 each home-home agreements each year which would mean every other year we'd only have 5 home games. When MSU can consistently put 18K+ fans in the stands for home games that may not be the best option, however it is my understanding that the 1st round of the playoffs is awarded to the teams that 'bid' the most to host.....if that is the case unless we're bidding against the frizz we will almost certainly host our 1st game in the playoffs which means another home game anyhow so I wouldn't rule out the possibility of every other year we only have 5 scheduled home games for the simple fact that IF we did make the playoffs we will most likely have at least 1 home playoff game anyway. It just goes to show you that if you can consistently fill a large stadium like the dark pink can vs getting <7k per game like ISU, you can dramatically increase your chances of making the playoffs independent of how good your team is......11 chances to get 7 wins is more better than 8,9,or 10 chances to get 7 wins.

Now since this year our FBS game will be against Idaho you could certainly say that is comparable to some FCS opponents....but playing Michigan State & Utah sure isn't, and as far as getting selected for the FCS playoffs goes a DII win is worth as much as a baloney sandwich....and I don't like baloney.

[PHAT CAT]

It has been reported that we will not be playing any Div II schools
in the future. I like that. Play the best!

That would be ideal, but unless we can get a MVFC team to come to us, or schedule a home and home like we did with SDSU with someone it'll be difficult to get D-II teams off the schedule. Especially in the years we are allowed 12 games. I wouldn't mind playing a conference opponent in a non-conference game every year similar to what we did with Eastern though.

This. We need to play Idaho State and / or Weber in the years they aren't on our conference schedule. These are places we can get to pretty easily, and they are charter schools.

I touched on this on a different thread. Until the last few years I haven't been an opponent of an FBS-DII combo on our schedule, but I am an opponent now.

For example I'll give you 2 extremes;

* Idaho State in 2014 had 4 non-conference games in a 12 game season.....2 of them were against DII teams and 2 were against FBS teams. In 2015 they had 3 non-conference games in an 11 game season....1 against a DII team and 2 against FBS teams. Guess what......they beat the DII teams (which counts for bumpkis) and they lost to the FBS teams. That left them each year with 8 FCS opponents (i.e. Big Sky conference games), of which they were required to win 7 of the 8 in order to get to the proverbial 7 DI wins needed to make the playoffs (to put this into perspective only 1 team from the Big Sky conference has won 7 conference games in each of the last 2 seasons...SUU in 2015 & EWU in 2014. Even NDSU did not go undefeated in conference play the last 2 seasons, finishing 7-1 both times) .
* um in 2015 had their 3 non-conference games against FCS opponents. In 2016 they also have their 3 non-conference opponents against FCS schools. When an FCS school is able to schedule all FCS opponents they have a much greater chance of getting to the 7 DI win threshold. In addition, they had/will have 6 home games vs 5 away games.

The CATS in 2015 had 10 FCS opponents & 1 DII opponent. In 2016 the CATS will have 9 FCS opponents, 1 DII opponent, & 1 FBS opponent. Therefore, in 2015 the CATS were in a position where they had to win 7 of 10 games against FCS teams in order to have a realistic chance of making the playoffs. In 2016, IF we loose to Idaho we will need to win 7 of 9 games against FCS teams in order to have a realistic chance of making the playoffs.

My point being, unless and until MSU gets to a point where in an 11 game season their 3 non-conference games are;
* a home portion of a home-home agreement with another FCS team
* an away portion of a home-home agreement with another FCS team
* PAY for an FCS team to come to Bozeman for just that year (i.e. Bryant in 2016?, Central Arkansas in 2014)

We will not be maximizing our chances to get to a 7 DI win season.

Another option to get 11 FCS games in an 11 game season is to have 3 each home-home agreements each year which would mean every other year we'd only have 5 home games. When MSU can consistently put 18K+ fans in the stands for home games that may not be the best option, however it is my understanding that the 1st round of the playoffs is awarded to the teams that 'bid' the most to host.....if that is the case unless we're bidding against the frizz we will almost certainly host our 1st game in the playoffs which means another home game anyhow so I wouldn't rule out the possibility of every other year we only have 5 scheduled home games for the simple fact that IF we did make the playoffs we will most likely have at least 1 home playoff game anyway. It just goes to show you that if you can consistently fill a large stadium like the dark pink can vs getting <7k per game like ISU, you can dramatically increase your chances of making the playoffs independent of how good your team is......11 chances to get 7 wins is more better than 8,9,or 10 chances to get 7 wins.

Now since this year our FBS game will be against Idaho you could certainly say that is comparable to some FCS opponents....but playing Michigan State & Utah sure isn't, and as far as getting selected for the FCS playoffs goes a DII win is worth as much as a baloney sandwich....and I don't like baloney.

If you think MSU will get the amount of money they are getting now for Sky Boxes or seats in the Gold Section like mine, for five game, you're nuts. That playoff game is extra money for all who want to attend. I'm not paying $3,000.00 a year to watch five footballs game. NO WAY!

[The MICKSTER]

If you think MSU will get the amount of money they are getting now for Sky Boxes or seats in the Gold Section like mine, for five game, you're nuts. That playoff game is extra money for all who want to attend. I'm not paying $3,000.00 a year to watch five footballs game. NO WAY!

In the end, it might be better to accept 5 home games every other year on 11 game seasons in order to get more home games in the end and potentially more playoff games as well……let me explain.

Not counting 2015 because it wouldn’t have made a difference, the CATS did not make the playoffs in 2013, 2009, 2008 & 2007. Our non-conference schedule those years include games against;
2013; SMU & Mesa (6 DI wins)
2009; Michigan State, Dixie (6 DI wins)
2008; Kansas State, Minnesota, Adams (6 DI wins)
2007; Texas A&M, Dixie (5 DI wins)
If in 2008, 2009, 2013 we would have had FCS opponents rather than FBS/DII opponents and would have won just one of those FCS games we very possibly would have made the playoffs those years. In 2007 we would have had to likely win both FCS games to make the playoffs.

Assuming playing an all FCS schedule in 2007 wouldn’t have made the difference in making the playoffs, but that it would have in 2008, 2009 & 2013 then we would have likely had 3 additional games over that time span (i.e. home playoff games) while giving up a regular scheduled home game every other year during that time span (07-15) say ~4 games, therefore a net loss of ~1 home game. There are a lot of assumptions here, but an all FCS schedule significantly increases a team’s chances of making the playoffs. I think it’s reasonable to assume that in 2008, 2009 & 2013 that given 2 or 3 chances to win 1 game against other FCS opponents those years would have likely happened and likely propelled us into the playoffs.

Another example why an all FCS schedule is a good thing is next year.....if MSU & um both end the season with 7-4 records um will likely make the playoffs and the CATS will likely not……..

*Let's say the CATS loses are @ Idaho, EWU, @SUU, NAU for a 7-4 record but with only 6 DI wins because we will have played Western Oregon, therefore as far as the selection committee is concerned we’re 6-4 (5-3 in conference) and most likely not in the playoffs.
*Let's say the frizz's loses are @ UNI, @NAU, @EWU, MSU for a 7-4 record (5-3 in conference). Same record, they lose to the CATS at home but end up with 7 DI wins because they had 11 FCS opponents and we only had 9, then they are likely in the playoffs.

In the scenario above even though; we have the same conference record as um, we only have 3 FCS loses compared to 4 FCS loses for the frizz, and we would have beaten them at wa griz…. the chances of us getting selected ahead of the dark pink is almost non-existent ……..is that fair?????? As my wife always tells me “the only fair is the county fair”.

Personally I'd forego a regular season home game every other year, but then again I'm not paying for Skyboxes....I see your point. I don't know what the best answer is. I don't want to pay more to attend CAT games either. I want the opportunity to attend 6 regular season home games every year too. I do want to maximize our chances of making the playoffs. I want to look like Brad Pitt. But I can't have everything.....it just ain't fair.

[WalkOn79]

It has been reported that we will not be playing any Div II schools
in the future. I like that. Play the best!

That would be ideal, but unless we can get a MVFC team to come to us, or schedule a home and home like we did with SDSU with someone it'll be difficult to get D-II teams off the schedule. Especially in the years we are allowed 12 games. I wouldn't mind playing a conference opponent in a non-conference game every year similar to what we did with Eastern though.

This. We need to play Idaho State and / or Weber in the years they aren't on our conference schedule. These are places we can get to pretty easily, and they are charter schools.

I touched on this on a different thread. Until the last few years I haven't been an opponent of an FBS-DII combo on our schedule, but I am an opponent now.

For example I'll give you 2 extremes;

* Idaho State in 2014 had 4 non-conference games in a 12 game season.....2 of them were against DII teams and 2 were against FBS teams. In 2015 they had 3 non-conference games in an 11 game season....1 against a DII team and 2 against FBS teams. Guess what......they beat the DII teams (which counts for bumpkis) and they lost to the FBS teams. That left them each year with 8 FCS opponents (i.e. Big Sky conference games), of which they were required to win 7 of the 8 in order to get to the proverbial 7 DI wins needed to make the playoffs (to put this into perspective only 1 team from the Big Sky conference has won 7 conference games in each of the last 2 seasons...SUU in 2015 & EWU in 2014. Even NDSU did not go undefeated in conference play the last 2 seasons, finishing 7-1 both times) .
* um in 2015 had their 3 non-conference games against FCS opponents. In 2016 they also have their 3 non-conference opponents against FCS schools. When an FCS school is able to schedule all FCS opponents they have a much greater chance of getting to the 7 DI win threshold. In addition, they had/will have 6 home games vs 5 away games.

The CATS in 2015 had 10 FCS opponents & 1 DII opponent. In 2016 the CATS will have 9 FCS opponents, 1 DII opponent, & 1 FBS opponent. Therefore, in 2015 the CATS were in a position where they had to win 7 of 10 games against FCS teams in order to have a realistic chance of making the playoffs. In 2016, IF we loose to Idaho we will need to win 7 of 9 games against FCS teams in order to have a realistic chance of making the playoffs.

My point being, unless and until MSU gets to a point where in an 11 game season their 3 non-conference games are;
* a home portion of a home-home agreement with another FCS team
* an away portion of a home-home agreement with another FCS team
* PAY for an FCS team to come to Bozeman for just that year (i.e. Bryant in 2016?, Central Arkansas in 2014)

We will not be maximizing our chances to get to a 7 DI win season.

Another option to get 11 FCS games in an 11 game season is to have 3 each home-home agreements each year which would mean every other year we'd only have 5 home games. When MSU can consistently put 18K+ fans in the stands for home games that may not be the best option, however it is my understanding that the 1st round of the playoffs is awarded to the teams that 'bid' the most to host.....if that is the case unless we're bidding against the frizz we will almost certainly host our 1st game in the playoffs which means another home game anyhow so I wouldn't rule out the possibility of every other year we only have 5 scheduled home games for the simple fact that IF we did make the playoffs we will most likely have at least 1 home playoff game anyway. It just goes to show you that if you can consistently fill a large stadium like the dark pink can vs getting <7k per game like ISU, you can dramatically increase your chances of making the playoffs independent of how good your team is......11 chances to get 7 wins is more better than 8,9,or 10 chances to get 7 wins.

Now since this year our FBS game will be against Idaho you could certainly say that is comparable to some FCS opponents....but playing Michigan State & Utah sure isn't, and as far as getting selected for the FCS playoffs goes a DII win is worth as much as a baloney sandwich....and I don't like baloney.

If you think MSU will get the amount of money they are getting now for Sky Boxes or seats in the Gold Section like mine, for five game, you're nuts. That playoff game is extra money for all who want to attend. I'm not paying $3,000.00 a year to watch five footballs game. NO WAY!

Season ticket prices would be less for a 5 game season, right?

[PHAT CAT]

I know how this would work. Per game tix would increase just like they have for the last two or three years. Booster fees never go down. The Cats will never have a five game home season. If they do, I'm moving to the cheap seats. They can kiss that booster cash, bye bye.

[Hawks86]

The revenue from a home playoff game is far less than a regular season game. Not just the bid but the NCAA gets a large cut of the profits.

[tampa_griz]

Another example why an all FCS schedule is a good thing is next year.....if MSU & um both end the season with 7-4 records um will likely make the playoffs and the CATS will likely not……..

*Let's say the CATS loses are @ Idaho, EWU, @SUU, NAU for a 7-4 record but with only 6 DI wins because we will have played Western Oregon, therefore as far as the selection committee is concerned we’re 6-4 (5-3 in conference) and most likely not in the playoffs.
*Let's say the frizz's loses are @ UNI, @NAU, @EWU, MSU for a 7-4 record (5-3 in conference). Same record, they lose to the CATS at home but end up with 7 DI wins because they had 11 FCS opponents and we only had 9, then they are likely in the playoffs.

In the scenario above even though; we have the same conference record as um, we only have 3 FCS loses compared to 4 FCS loses for the frizz, and we would have beaten them at wa griz…. the chances of us getting selected ahead of the dark pink is almost non-existent ……..is that fair?????? As my wife always tells me “the only fair is the county fair”.

I don't know that that's necessarily true. Remember in 2006 when PSU and MSU both ended up 7-4 (6-2)? PSU played a brutal schedule that included tough losses at Cal and Oregon and a win at New Mexico. They also lost to MSU in Bozeman and against Montana at home in Portland. So their four losses were to Oregon, Cal, Montana, and MSU. MSU's losses that year were to EWU, Chadron St., UC Davis, and Montana. MSU got the last playoff spot that year. I think the committee looked at the head-to-head win MSU had over PSU as the deciding factor even though PSU had a tougher schedule.

I'm not saying that's how it would play out again given the scenario you described, but it's happened before (switching out UM with PSU).

[The MICKSTER]

Some comments / responses;

tampa-griz; I believe in 2006 both Portland State and the CATS had 7 DI wins and each had a FBS (aka Div 1A) win to their name. Was PSU's strength of schedule more than the CATS....yes, but as you mentioned they did win the head to head. It was a close call, and back then there were only 16 teams that made the playoffs....today they'd both get in. Next year if the CATS have 6 DI wins and um has 7 DI wins, even if the CATS win the head to head, the CATS will not make the playoffs before the griz do.

Hawks86; I believe you are correct the revenue the school takes in for a DII home game exceeds the revenue from a home playoff game for the reasons you mentioned.

Phat Cat; as I stated I don't know what the best answer is. To keep the fans/boosters happy is a very high priority. However, making it into the playoffs is as well. If the fans/boosters were asked at the beginning of the season 'every other year would you rather have 6 home games and not make the playoffs or 5 home games + a home playoff game, which would you prefer? I think most would choose the latter.

Being able to have an all FCS schedule is challenging from both a financial and public relations standpoint.

All I'm saying is having an all FCS schedule would give us the best chance every year to make the playoffs. Next would be an all Div I schedule (which sounds like where we're headed). Last is having a schedule with a DII (i.e. baloney) game.

[GoCats18]

This should be a good game to be at. Wish it was this year!!

[BleedingBLue]

This is all another reason both Idaho and New Mexico State need to drop down and go back to an 8-9 team big sky and a 6-7 team great west where we are scheduling home and homes with teams in the great west and mvfc.

[Mr Lisle]

The Cats are guaranteed $425K