2016 QB Competition - We have some good ones.
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2016 QB Competition - We have some good ones.
Conclusions first. This is going to be quite a QB competition. We have some talented guys top to bottom. I am most intrigued by Chris Murray - I think we really got a gem here. He is blazing fast, makes guys miss and has a good arm too. Jordan Hoy and Ben Folsom have similar profiles. I have watched Hoy practice numerous times and I think he is genuinely good. He has more of a running back style to him. Tyler Bruggman is interesting, but somewhat of a mixed past. He is clearly the best passer of the bunch, but doesn't run much. There was some drama to his recruiting with WSU and he basically got beat out by other QB's at both WSU and Louisville. If he has matured during his CC year last year, he looks like he could be a good leader as well. Lastly, you have Brady McChesney. While smaller, he was a huge WINNER. Runner up state champ in '13 and undefeated state champ in '14. If Folsom or McChesney don't make the pick, they both look like they'd be able to play several different positions elsewhere.
If I was going to make a blind pick, I am most interested in seeing what Chris Murray can do. Watching his HUDL's, I think he could be very McGhee-like. He is not as outspoken as Denarius, but he sure plays a lot like him. Last but not least, he is 6'4" and runs a 4.5 40!!
Jordan Hoy, 6'1", 187, 4.52 40YD, 102.9 qb rating
Dual-threat QB, Rockwall-Heath, TX
Senior Year Stats: 102/171 (.596), 1357 yd pass, 104 ypg, 917 yd rush, 13 pass td, 16 rush td, 3 int (13 games)
Notes: Recruited by Cramsey. Shared time as a soph/junior, started as a senior. Ran a read-option offense in HS. Built like a RB and clearly likes to run it. Ran a 10.9 100YD. Played BBall. Was an under-the-radar recruit.
"Earned team MVP honors as a senior... All-District 12 5A honors... Dallas News Player of the Week honors in two consecutive weeks during the playoffs... 1,400 pass yards and 13 touchdown passes as a senior, with 1,000 rushing yards and 15 touchdown runs, as well."
Chris Murray, 6'4", 195, 4.51 40YD, 128.7 qb rating
Dual-threat QB, Lawndale HS, CA
Senior Year Stats: 91/130 (.700), 1595 yd pass, 160 ypg, 1239 yd rush, 19 pass td, 14 rush td, 7 int. (10 games)
Notes: Won the starting HS job as a freshman, played varsity all 4 years. Very fast on tape - great break-away speed. Tall. Had lights out #'s his junior and senior year. Won the league MVP. Recruited by MSU and EWU. During Murray's senior year, Lawndale had to forfeit 4 games because of a player transfer violation. They were 8-1 and ended up 6-6. I can't find if they won a championship or not.
Tyler Bruggman, 6'2", 205, 4.8 40YD, 107.6 qb rating
Pro Style QB, Phoenix Brophy Prep, AZ
Senior Year Stats: 177/323 (.548), 2800 yd pass, 200 ypg, 43 yd rush, 33 pass, 4 rush td, 8 int. (14 games)
Notes: A highly prized 4 star recruit by Mike Leach at WSU, but almost bailed on them last minute to sign with ASU. He got beat out in competition his frosh year at WSU and then transferred to Louisville. He faced significant competition there and chose to move to Scottsdale CC. He started his Jr. and Sr. year.
"Attended Brophy College Prepatory and played for coach Scooter Molander...as a SOPHOMORE, earned All-Region honorable mention after passing for 1,304 yards, 11 touchdowns and six interceptions...as a JUNIOR, helped Brophy Prep to an 11-1 record...named Phoenix Metro Player of the Year by Arizona Republic after completing 156-of-259 passes for 2,497 yards and 37 touchdowns and two interceptions...as a SENIOR, guided Brophy Prep to an 11-3 record and earned all classification All-State second team by the Arizona Football Coaches Association...also named All-State Division I honorable mention by Arizona Republic, Division I Section III Offensive Player of the Year ...completed 177-of-323 (.548) passes for 2,803 yards with 33 touchdowns and eight interceptions...also rushed for four touchdowns...threw for 300+ yards three times and tossed 3+ touchdowns seven times...threw for 368 yards and six touchdowns against Pinnacle High School....named to Academic All-State first team...rated four stars by ESPN.com, Rivals.com and Scout.com... one of 12 quarterbacks named to the Western 100 by the Tacoma News Tribune...ranked the No. 49 overall prospect in the West Top 150 by Scout.com...ranked the No. 18 quarterback prospect in the country by Rivals.com...ranked the No. 2 overall prospect and top quarterback prospect in Arizona by ESPN.com."
Ben Folsom, 6'2", 198, 40YD?, 118.4 qb rating
Dual-threat QB, Beaverhead County High, Dillon, MT
Senior Year Stats: 89/160 (.556), 1605 yd pass, 160.5 ypg, 597 yd rush, 16 td pass, 15 td rush, 2 int. (10 games)
Notes: Played varsity football and bbal all 4 years.
"First Team All-State and All-Conference quarterback at Beaverhead County HS, completing 64% of his passes for 2,273 yards and 23 touchdowns... also logged 194 tackles and seven interceptions in his career... a Great Falls Tribune Superstate choice, earning invitations to the Mon-Dak and Montana Shrine all-star games... played on Beaverhead's 2011 football and 2012 basketball state championship teams"
Brady McChesney 5'11" 170 40YD?, QB rating?
Dual-threat QB, Kalispel Glacier, MT
Senior Year Stats: ?
Notes: Lost the 2013 MT AA State Championship, Won the 2014 MT AA State Championship, undefeated. Played varsity football and bball. All the standard state honors.
"The quarterback is Glacier's Brady McChesney. A 6-0, 170-pound senior, McChesney was head and shoulders above the rest under center. He completed 60 percent of his passes and threw for 2,825 yards and 37 touchdowns to just five interceptions. "I've said this, and I know it's a really bold statement, but I've coached some good quarterbacks," Glacier head coach Grady Bennett said, "I mean, I have some quarterbacks that have played in the NFL and CFL, and I think he is the best I've ever coached. The reason is, he may not have the tangible skillset … but he has the best intangibles that I've ever seen." A first team All-State selection and the Most Valuable Player on offense, McChesney led the Wolfpack to an unblemished 13-0 record and Glacier's first state championship, where he threw for 250 yards and three scores. He is deciding between Montana Tech and Montana State, where, as of now, he would be a walk-on."
If I was going to make a blind pick, I am most interested in seeing what Chris Murray can do. Watching his HUDL's, I think he could be very McGhee-like. He is not as outspoken as Denarius, but he sure plays a lot like him. Last but not least, he is 6'4" and runs a 4.5 40!!
Jordan Hoy, 6'1", 187, 4.52 40YD, 102.9 qb rating
Dual-threat QB, Rockwall-Heath, TX
Senior Year Stats: 102/171 (.596), 1357 yd pass, 104 ypg, 917 yd rush, 13 pass td, 16 rush td, 3 int (13 games)
Notes: Recruited by Cramsey. Shared time as a soph/junior, started as a senior. Ran a read-option offense in HS. Built like a RB and clearly likes to run it. Ran a 10.9 100YD. Played BBall. Was an under-the-radar recruit.
"Earned team MVP honors as a senior... All-District 12 5A honors... Dallas News Player of the Week honors in two consecutive weeks during the playoffs... 1,400 pass yards and 13 touchdown passes as a senior, with 1,000 rushing yards and 15 touchdown runs, as well."
Chris Murray, 6'4", 195, 4.51 40YD, 128.7 qb rating
Dual-threat QB, Lawndale HS, CA
Senior Year Stats: 91/130 (.700), 1595 yd pass, 160 ypg, 1239 yd rush, 19 pass td, 14 rush td, 7 int. (10 games)
Notes: Won the starting HS job as a freshman, played varsity all 4 years. Very fast on tape - great break-away speed. Tall. Had lights out #'s his junior and senior year. Won the league MVP. Recruited by MSU and EWU. During Murray's senior year, Lawndale had to forfeit 4 games because of a player transfer violation. They were 8-1 and ended up 6-6. I can't find if they won a championship or not.
Tyler Bruggman, 6'2", 205, 4.8 40YD, 107.6 qb rating
Pro Style QB, Phoenix Brophy Prep, AZ
Senior Year Stats: 177/323 (.548), 2800 yd pass, 200 ypg, 43 yd rush, 33 pass, 4 rush td, 8 int. (14 games)
Notes: A highly prized 4 star recruit by Mike Leach at WSU, but almost bailed on them last minute to sign with ASU. He got beat out in competition his frosh year at WSU and then transferred to Louisville. He faced significant competition there and chose to move to Scottsdale CC. He started his Jr. and Sr. year.
"Attended Brophy College Prepatory and played for coach Scooter Molander...as a SOPHOMORE, earned All-Region honorable mention after passing for 1,304 yards, 11 touchdowns and six interceptions...as a JUNIOR, helped Brophy Prep to an 11-1 record...named Phoenix Metro Player of the Year by Arizona Republic after completing 156-of-259 passes for 2,497 yards and 37 touchdowns and two interceptions...as a SENIOR, guided Brophy Prep to an 11-3 record and earned all classification All-State second team by the Arizona Football Coaches Association...also named All-State Division I honorable mention by Arizona Republic, Division I Section III Offensive Player of the Year ...completed 177-of-323 (.548) passes for 2,803 yards with 33 touchdowns and eight interceptions...also rushed for four touchdowns...threw for 300+ yards three times and tossed 3+ touchdowns seven times...threw for 368 yards and six touchdowns against Pinnacle High School....named to Academic All-State first team...rated four stars by ESPN.com, Rivals.com and Scout.com... one of 12 quarterbacks named to the Western 100 by the Tacoma News Tribune...ranked the No. 49 overall prospect in the West Top 150 by Scout.com...ranked the No. 18 quarterback prospect in the country by Rivals.com...ranked the No. 2 overall prospect and top quarterback prospect in Arizona by ESPN.com."
Ben Folsom, 6'2", 198, 40YD?, 118.4 qb rating
Dual-threat QB, Beaverhead County High, Dillon, MT
Senior Year Stats: 89/160 (.556), 1605 yd pass, 160.5 ypg, 597 yd rush, 16 td pass, 15 td rush, 2 int. (10 games)
Notes: Played varsity football and bbal all 4 years.
"First Team All-State and All-Conference quarterback at Beaverhead County HS, completing 64% of his passes for 2,273 yards and 23 touchdowns... also logged 194 tackles and seven interceptions in his career... a Great Falls Tribune Superstate choice, earning invitations to the Mon-Dak and Montana Shrine all-star games... played on Beaverhead's 2011 football and 2012 basketball state championship teams"
Brady McChesney 5'11" 170 40YD?, QB rating?
Dual-threat QB, Kalispel Glacier, MT
Senior Year Stats: ?
Notes: Lost the 2013 MT AA State Championship, Won the 2014 MT AA State Championship, undefeated. Played varsity football and bball. All the standard state honors.
"The quarterback is Glacier's Brady McChesney. A 6-0, 170-pound senior, McChesney was head and shoulders above the rest under center. He completed 60 percent of his passes and threw for 2,825 yards and 37 touchdowns to just five interceptions. "I've said this, and I know it's a really bold statement, but I've coached some good quarterbacks," Glacier head coach Grady Bennett said, "I mean, I have some quarterbacks that have played in the NFL and CFL, and I think he is the best I've ever coached. The reason is, he may not have the tangible skillset … but he has the best intangibles that I've ever seen." A first team All-State selection and the Most Valuable Player on offense, McChesney led the Wolfpack to an unblemished 13-0 record and Glacier's first state championship, where he threw for 250 yards and three scores. He is deciding between Montana Tech and Montana State, where, as of now, he would be a walk-on."
Last edited by Counter Assault on Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:14 pm, edited 3 times in total.
- Cledus
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Re: 2016 QB Competition - We have some good ones.
Minor nit and a skosh off topic, but this seems as good a place as any to bring it up.
It would be more correctly referred to as a "passer rating" rather than a QB rating. This is because there are elements of the position and intangibles that just can't be quantified through the rating. For example, Prukop's value as a QB exceeded whatever his rating was because he was able to make things happen with his legs.
A pure, drop-back passer with little scrambling ability like Peyton Manning, his ability to play the position is almost strictly limited to his passing.
Lastly, sacks are incorrectly counted against rushing totals and not passing totals. This is probably because the stat was invented when football was almost strictly played on the ground. Back to Manning, he boosts his QB value because he's rarely sacked. He's on record stating he knows if he can't get a pass off to his target in less than two seconds that he's got to get rid of the ball.
All I'm trying to say is it's extraordinarily difficult to assess a QB based on the his rating and we're probably not doing these kids any favors if we as fans are giving anything more than a grain of salt to their rating.
It would be more correctly referred to as a "passer rating" rather than a QB rating. This is because there are elements of the position and intangibles that just can't be quantified through the rating. For example, Prukop's value as a QB exceeded whatever his rating was because he was able to make things happen with his legs.
A pure, drop-back passer with little scrambling ability like Peyton Manning, his ability to play the position is almost strictly limited to his passing.
Lastly, sacks are incorrectly counted against rushing totals and not passing totals. This is probably because the stat was invented when football was almost strictly played on the ground. Back to Manning, he boosts his QB value because he's rarely sacked. He's on record stating he knows if he can't get a pass off to his target in less than two seconds that he's got to get rid of the ball.
All I'm trying to say is it's extraordinarily difficult to assess a QB based on the his rating and we're probably not doing these kids any favors if we as fans are giving anything more than a grain of salt to their rating.
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Re: 2016 QB Competition - We have some good ones.
Yeah, I just put the # in there because it was on Maxpreps. I was trying to give an overall picture, it was just one number.
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Re: 2016 QB Competition - We have some good ones.
It's a two horse race at this point between Hoy and Bruggmqn. I expect Bruggman to win. Murray needs a redshirt and some seasoning, and McChesney and Folsom just aren't good enough.
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Re: 2016 QB Competition - We have some good ones.
I like McChesney. I think he definitely has the "it" factor and yes I think that will carry over at the college level. Who knows, he could turn out to be the Dave Dickenson of the Bobcats.
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Re: 2016 QB Competition - We have some good ones.
If Bruggman isn't your starter come fall, then that means he has really fallen to the way side. Choate is familiar with him and brought him in for a very specific reason, to be the starting QB for the Cats. At this point everyone else is competing for QB2.
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Re: 2016 QB Competition - We have some good ones.
I agree with the Griz fan. Bruggman wouldn't have transferred to FCS to be a back-up. He could do that at a FBS school.Grizaddict wrote:If Bruggman isn't your starter come fall, then that means he has really fallen to the way side. Choate is familiar with him and brought him in for a very specific reason, to be the starting QB for the Cats. At this point everyone else is competing for QB2.
Thanks for the commentary in the OP, CounterAssaut. Lots of good info that I didn't know and wouldn't have seen anywhere else.
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Re: 2016 QB Competition - We have some good ones.
remember, Bruggman was no longer with a FBS program so the situation could easily be different.
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Re: 2016 QB Competition - We have some good ones.
Here are some QB 40 time comparisons;
Robert Griffin III...4.41 fastest in the NFL
Chris Murray.......4.51
Dakota Prukop.....4.51
Jordan Hoy........4.52
Marcus Mariota....4.52
Russell Wilson.....4.55
Vernon Adams.....4.58 average
Cam Newton.......4.59
Denarius McGhee..4.67
Travis Lulay........4.71
Tyler Bruggman..4.80
Peyton Manning...4.80
Brady Gustafson...4.93 average
Philip Rivers........5.08
Tom Brady..........5.28 (edit)
Robert Griffin III...4.41 fastest in the NFL
Chris Murray.......4.51
Dakota Prukop.....4.51
Jordan Hoy........4.52
Marcus Mariota....4.52
Russell Wilson.....4.55
Vernon Adams.....4.58 average
Cam Newton.......4.59
Denarius McGhee..4.67
Travis Lulay........4.71
Tyler Bruggman..4.80
Peyton Manning...4.80
Brady Gustafson...4.93 average
Philip Rivers........5.08
Tom Brady..........5.28 (edit)
Last edited by The MICKSTER on Tue Feb 09, 2016 5:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 2016 QB Competition - We have some good ones.
MSU's 3 QBs > Peyton Manning/Tom BradyThe MICKSTER wrote:Here are some QB 40 time comparisons;
Robert Griffin III...4.41 fastest in the NFL
Chris Murray.......4.51
Dakota Prukop.....4.51
Jordan Hoy........4.52
Marcus Mariota....4.52
Russell Wilson.....4.55
Vernon Adams.....4.58 average
Cam Newton.......4.59
Denarius McGhee..4.67
Travis Lulay........4.71
Tyler Bruggman..4.80
Peyton Manning...4.80
Brady Gustafson...4.93 average
Philip Rivers........5.08
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Re: 2016 QB Competition - We have some good ones.
I find it very hard to believe Choate would tell Bruggman if he comes here he starts. No good coach promises a guy something like, no matter how good he was before showing up on campus, especially after 3 transfers. I'm not saying he won't be the starter but I do believe Choate is expecting a fierce competition for the job. He won't just hand it over to anyone.PapaG wrote:I agree with the Griz fan. Bruggman wouldn't have transferred to FCS to be a back-up. He could do that at a FBS school.Grizaddict wrote:If Bruggman isn't your starter come fall, then that means he has really fallen to the way side. Choate is familiar with him and brought him in for a very specific reason, to be the starting QB for the Cats. At this point everyone else is competing for QB2.
Thanks for the commentary in the OP, CounterAssaut. Lots of good info that I didn't know and wouldn't have seen anywhere else.
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Re: 2016 QB Competition - We have some good ones.
And it is safe to assume Bruggman knows that.BleedingBLue wrote:I find it very hard to believe Choate would tell Bruggman if he comes here he starts. No good coach promises a guy something like, no matter how good he was before showing up on campus, especially after 3 transfers. I'm not saying he won't be the starter but I do believe Choate is expecting a fierce competition for the job. He won't just hand it over to anyone.PapaG wrote:I agree with the Griz fan. Bruggman wouldn't have transferred to FCS to be a back-up. He could do that at a FBS school.Grizaddict wrote:If Bruggman isn't your starter come fall, then that means he has really fallen to the way side. Choate is familiar with him and brought him in for a very specific reason, to be the starting QB for the Cats. At this point everyone else is competing for QB2.
Thanks for the commentary in the OP, CounterAssaut. Lots of good info that I didn't know and wouldn't have seen anywhere else.
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Re: 2016 QB Competition - We have some good ones.
McChesney is a really good player. But he isn't a BSC QB.
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Re: 2016 QB Competition - We have some good ones.
Him and Will Weyer are in very similar situations.grizpack wrote:McChesney is a really good player. But he isn't a BSC QB.
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Re: 2016 QB Competition - We have some good ones.
I think Hoy has the talent to be a All Big Sky type player on the field, but I think he really needs to do a lot of maturing off the field. Tyler will be the starter this year and maybe if Hoy can keep his nose clean and grow off the field he can beat him out in 2017.
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Re: 2016 QB Competition - We have some good ones.
Probably shouldn't compare hand times 40's to laser times ones. There's a significant difference.The MICKSTER wrote:Here are some QB 40 time comparisons;
Robert Griffin III...4.41 fastest in the NFL
Chris Murray.......4.51
Dakota Prukop.....4.51
Jordan Hoy........4.52
Marcus Mariota....4.52
Russell Wilson.....4.55
Vernon Adams.....4.58 average
Cam Newton.......4.59
Denarius McGhee..4.67
Travis Lulay........4.71
Tyler Bruggman..4.80
Peyton Manning...4.80
Brady Gustafson...4.93 average
Philip Rivers........5.08
Tom Brady..........5.28 (edit)
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Re: 2016 QB Competition - We have some good ones.
I'm thinking that is PM's time from 10+ years ago. Id be surprised if half the team couldn't beat his current time.VimSince03 wrote:MSU's 3 QBs > Peyton Manning/Tom BradyThe MICKSTER wrote:Here are some QB 40 time comparisons;
Robert Griffin III...4.41 fastest in the NFL
Chris Murray.......4.51
Dakota Prukop.....4.51
Jordan Hoy........4.52
Marcus Mariota....4.52
Russell Wilson.....4.55
Vernon Adams.....4.58 average
Cam Newton.......4.59
Denarius McGhee..4.67
Travis Lulay........4.71
Tyler Bruggman..4.80
Peyton Manning...4.80
Brady Gustafson...4.93 average
Philip Rivers........5.08
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Re: 2016 QB Competition - We have some good ones.
Absolutely. And honestly any player worth his salt welcomes competition because it not only makes him better, but it makes everyone else better as well. Regardless of the position there should be a battle for the starting spot.VimSince03 wrote:And it is safe to assume Bruggman knows that.BleedingBLue wrote:I find it very hard to believe Choate would tell Bruggman if he comes here he starts. No good coach promises a guy something like, no matter how good he was before showing up on campus, especially after 3 transfers. I'm not saying he won't be the starter but I do believe Choate is expecting a fierce competition for the job. He won't just hand it over to anyone.PapaG wrote:I agree with the Griz fan. Bruggman wouldn't have transferred to FCS to be a back-up. He could do that at a FBS school.Grizaddict wrote:If Bruggman isn't your starter come fall, then that means he has really fallen to the way side. Choate is familiar with him and brought him in for a very specific reason, to be the starting QB for the Cats. At this point everyone else is competing for QB2.
Thanks for the commentary in the OP, CounterAssaut. Lots of good info that I didn't know and wouldn't have seen anywhere else.
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Re: 2016 QB Competition - We have some good ones.
The only thing that worries me is completion percentage. My biggest preference in a QB is accuracy and Bruggman seems to have struggled with his since high school. Now, a lot of things affect completion percentage numbers (throw aways, drops, etc.), and I haven't watched film, but I want whoever wins to be accurate. Watching some QB's who throw the ball in the dirt in front of the wide receivers just ticks me off
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Re: 2016 QB Competition - We have some good ones.
He'd better be accurate and a good team leader and clock manager, and other tangibles/intangibles; because 4.80s 40-time is pretty slow for a Bobcat QB.blueandgoldblitz wrote:The only thing that worries me is completion percentage. My biggest preference in a QB is accuracy and Bruggman seems to have struggled with his since high school. Now, a lot of things affect completion percentage numbers (throw aways, drops, etc.), and I haven't watched film, but I want whoever wins to be accurate. Watching some QB's who throw the ball in the dirt in front of the wide receivers just ticks me off
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