What A Mess This Forum Is

[oldcatdude]

Are these people really Bobcat fans? After reading the posts over the last few years and today what a joke this is. Still calling out players and talking about them on here, then having the nerve to thank Ash for all he has done yet many are the same who were calling for his head all year. What a pathetic disgrace this has become. Let me get this straight, a guy who has went 70-38, has won 3 Big Sky Championships, has kept 100 plus players for the most part squeaky clean, but oh he can't win the big one or big game - like those coaches are just hanging around to come to MSU. I will bet the house tbat our next coach won't last as long as Ash has and will not go 70-38, I will take the under to the Max. Let's see, the current jobs out there now to name a few are USC, Miami, South Carolina, Missouri, Syracuse - but we are going on a nation wide search to find us that great coach. Even the assistant job is better at these schools and pays more - aka - Mac! MSU is not a hot bed for athletes or coaches to come to, I said that before, somebody even mentioned Paul Petrino - God - not even on the same level as Ash! I feel our fan base has become a bunch of spoiled rotten fans due to what Ash has brought us. Shame on us for letting our coach go in this manner, perhaps the lunatics have more influence than I thought. Perhaps they should have given Fields some ideas on how to keep our program a class act - what a way to tell Ash goodbye! Change can be good but change in the right way! I sure hope Cramsey gets the job, the players love him and he is our only chance to make us competitive next year. Otherwise we start from scratch with probably a new freshmen QB and others who are untested. You see, it's about more than wins and losses, we are more than that. And the players Ash brought in know that. The silent voices need to step up and stop the lunacy- I am sorry it took me 3 years to post! Go Bobcats!

[CatBlitz]

I'm also loving all these people coming out of the woodwork to have their opinion heard, like they've got some novel idea of how things should be.

[KittieKop]

+1

[Bornbobcat]

100% correct

If cramsey doesn't get the job we will have a new hc,oc,dc,and qb. Anyone have an example of when that move actually worked out? Outside higher = rebuilding and more than likely 2-3 years of a 6-7 win season.

[Counter Assault]

100% correct

If cramsey doesn't get the job we will have a new hc,oc,dc,and qb. Anyone have an example of when that move actually worked out? Outside higher = rebuilding and more than likely 2-3 years of a 6-7 win season.

Well, we just went 5-6 with an "established system."

Kumbaya.

[Bornbobcat]

Yep we did, and all of our wins are a direct result of the dominate offense. Which is completely disassembled with a new coach.

[Potomac Griz]

I'm also loving all these people coming out of the woodwork to have their opinion heard, like they've got some novel idea of how things should be.

Some people don't seem to realize that a sports message board is going to have controversial topics, some trolls, people having heated arguments and stuff they might not actually agree with (Heaven forbid!).

This place and eGriz are actually very tame considering the size of the two fan bases and when compared to most of the big program message boards. If the people who have a problem with BCN ever wandered over to the Big 12 Warzone, Shaggy Bevo (some hilarious threads over there) and some of the other forums out there they'd probably throw their computer out the window and never use the internet again.

oldcatdude - It's a message board where fans discuss a variety of topics about Bobcat sports. It's not going to be all unicorns and happiness all the time. Stuff is going to get heated. People are going to say stuff out of anger. People are going to have opinions that you disagree with. Welcome to the internet!

[SonomaCat]

Having read quite a few posts on here over the past few days, I'd have to say that the conversation has been relatively high quality, given the heated emotions. For the most part people are engaging each other respectfully, even when they strongly disagree with each other.

I think the OP was more of the mind that the people that disagree with him/her shouldn't be voicing their opinions at all (and therefore disparaging the entire forum because people were posting opinions he/she disagreed with), which I strongly disagree with. It's a good thing that all perspectives are able to be aired, and then for people to respectfully present counter-arguments that may even change their minds. In the grander scheme of things this is all a good thing. Sure we all wish (to placate our own egos) that nobody disagreed with any of our own opinions, as that would make us feel quite correct all the time and would remove any self-doubt we might have about our own views, but that scenario is pretty rare is these dog-gone free societies.

It can be messy at times, of course, but that's unavoidable unless we just silence everyone ... and that's the opposite of what forums like this are all about.

[Counter Assault]

Yep we did, and all of our wins are a direct result of the dominate offense. Which is completely disassembled with a new coach.

...AND the defense was completely disassembled by the prior coach, rendering the offense completely and utterly useless.

[Counter Assault]

I'm also loving all these people coming out of the woodwork to have their opinion heard, like they've got some novel idea of how things should be.

Some people don't seem to realize that a sports message board is going to have controversial topics, some trolls, people having heated arguments and stuff they might not actually agree with (Heaven forbid!).

This place and eGriz are actually very tame considering the size of the two fan bases and when compared to most of the big program message boards. If the people who have a problem with BCN ever wandered over to the Big 12 Warzone, Shaggy Bevo (some hilarious threads over there) and some of the other forums out there they'd probably throw their computer out the window and never use the internet again.

oldcatdude - It's a message board where fans discuss a variety of topics about Bobcat sports. It's not going to be all unicorns and happiness all the time. Stuff is going to get heated. People are going to say stuff out of anger. People are going to have opinions that you disagree with. Welcome to the internet!

Damn Potomac, maybe I am capable of liking a Griz!

[onceacat]

Yep we did, and all of our wins are a direct result of the dominate offense. Which is completely disassembled with a new coach.

Well, our D held teams in those 5 wins to an average of 16.4, so I'm not sure that your statement is accurate.

[CatsNoMatterWhat]

Yep we did, and all of our wins are a direct result of the dominate offense. Which is completely disassembled with a new coach.

Why is it completely disassembled? We still have the same QB, the same 2 RBs, and the O-Line was going to be a bit of a rebuild regardless of who the coach is; receivers should be solid, but again, young. I'm confused in your logic? There is little question with Dakota a spread system will be utilized...which is what TC ran this year.

[John K]

Are these people really Bobcat fans? After reading the posts over the last few years and today what a joke this is. Still calling out players and talking about them on here, then having the nerve to thank Ash for all he has done yet many are the same who were calling for his head all year. What a pathetic disgrace this has become. Let me get this straight, a guy who has went 70-38, has won 3 Big Sky Championships, has kept 100 plus players for the most part squeaky clean, but oh he can't win the big one or big game - like those coaches are just hanging around to come to MSU. I will bet the house tbat our next coach won't last as long as Ash has and will not go 70-38, I will take the under to the Max. Let's see, the current jobs out there now to name a few are USC, Miami, South Carolina, Missouri, Syracuse - but we are going on a nation wide search to find us that great coach. Even the assistant job is better at these schools and pays more - aka - Mac! MSU is not a hot bed for athletes or coaches to come to, I said that before, somebody even mentioned Paul Petrino - God - not even on the same level as Ash! I feel our fan base has become a bunch of spoiled rotten fans due to what Ash has brought us. Shame on us for letting our coach go in this manner, perhaps the lunatics have more influence than I thought. Perhaps they should have given Fields some ideas on how to keep our program a class act - what a way to tell Ash goodbye! Change can be good but change in the right way! I sure hope Cramsey gets the job, the players love him and he is our only chance to make us competitive next year. Otherwise we start from scratch with probably a new freshmen QB and others who are untested. You see, it's about more than wins and losses, we are more than that. And the players Ash brought in know that. The silent voices need to step up and stop the lunacy- I am sorry it took me 3 years to post! Go Bobcats!

So you don't think it's possible to appreciate and respect Ash for the job he's done over the past nine years, while also believing that we might need to make a change to eventually take that proverbial "next step". I'm sorry, but I just don't believe those two things are necessarily mutually exclusive. I believe Rob Ash did a very good job for the most part. He seemed like a great person, and I thank him for his contributions to MSU. The last nine years will be remembered as a very good time in the history of the football program. That being said, I think we made the right decision yesterday.

[BobcatOninetails]

Yep we did, and all of our wins are a direct result of the dominate offense. Which is completely disassembled with a new coach.

First, the Griz are going to the playoffs for the umpteenth time in the last 25 years. They are on their fourth coach in the Ash era and outside of that little hiccup, they just keep winning. Second, how do you know that our offense won't be even better next year? The answer is, you don't know. R-E-L-A-X. We have lots of talent, a way better-than-average facility, and right now, a pretty loyal fan base. I think more people will come to see the Cats play next year than if Ash had stayed and we can only support the new guy. Honestly, he might be even better.

[Joe Bobcat]

Are these people really Bobcat fans? After reading the posts over the last few years and today what a joke this is. Still calling out players and talking about them on here, then having the nerve to thank Ash for all he has done yet many are the same who were calling for his head all year. What a pathetic disgrace this has become. Let me get this straight, a guy who has went 70-38, has won 3 Big Sky Championships, has kept 100 plus players for the most part squeaky clean, but oh he can't win the big one or big game - like those coaches are just hanging around to come to MSU. I will bet the house tbat our next coach won't last as long as Ash has and will not go 70-38, I will take the under to the Max. Let's see, the current jobs out there now to name a few are USC, Miami, South Carolina, Missouri, Syracuse - but we are going on a nation wide search to find us that great coach. Even the assistant job is better at these schools and pays more - aka - Mac! MSU is not a hot bed for athletes or coaches to come to, I said that before, somebody even mentioned Paul Petrino - God - not even on the same level as Ash! I feel our fan base has become a bunch of spoiled rotten fans due to what Ash has brought us. Shame on us for letting our coach go in this manner, perhaps the lunatics have more influence than I thought. Perhaps they should have given Fields some ideas on how to keep our program a class act - what a way to tell Ash goodbye! Change can be good but change in the right way! I sure hope Cramsey gets the job, the players love him and he is our only chance to make us competitive next year. Otherwise we start from scratch with probably a new freshmen QB and others who are untested. You see, it's about more than wins and losses, we are more than that. And the players Ash brought in know that. The silent voices need to step up and stop the lunacy- I am sorry it took me 3 years to post! Go Bobcats!

So you don't think it's possible to appreciate and respect Ash for the job he's done over the past nine years, while also believing that we might need to make a change to eventually take that proverbial "next step". I'm sorry, but I just don't believe those two things are necessarily mutually exclusive. I believe Rob Ash did a very good job for the most part. He seemed like a great person, and I thank him for his contributions to MSU. The last nine years will be remembered as a very good time in the history of the football program. That being said, I think we made the right decision yesterday.

I completely agree johnk. And no this forum is not a mess. This event has exposed plenty of raw nerves and emotion that originate from the deep passion that so many have for this program. It will all be worked out and Bobcat nation will be stronger for it.

[Bornbobcat]

Guess I'll answer all three in one.

The offense in our wins avg 46 pts. Sure the defense also avg 16 pts a game in those wins but one of those was against a first year program and a d2. I don't see how any rational person could place blame on the off for any of the losses this year. I truly believe the defense got stronger and much improved as the year went on. The gap control was bad all year but was much better in the last two weeks. Which is my exact point. It takes time to learn a new system. Nothing happens over night.

My logic behind saying the off will be disassembled if cramsey isn't highered as hc is simple. Cramsey has applied for the hc position if he doesn't get it, he isn't staying on as oc. If he leaves that means possible new scheme or similar scheme but the nuances of that similar scheme will still be different. As for the same qb, I don't beleive Dakota stays if their is a new oc. If I was him I wouldn't. He would be faced with learning a new system here or learning a new system elsewhere. I'm sure there is a bcs team that would give him a chance and moving to a bcs team gives him the chance to showcase his talent in a bigger stage. Sure the rbs and wrs will be the same but they will also be learning a new system. It takes years not weeks or months to understand and fully implement a new scheme. There is also the possibility that our players don't fit the scheme of the new coach and find themselves on the outside looking in.

As for the griz, they didn't change dc and their defense is their strength and remained unchanged.

All I'm saying is cramsey gives us the best chance to win now. Barneyball is the perfect example of promotion from within.

[catscat]

Are these people really Bobcat fans? After reading the posts over the last few years and today what a joke this is. Still calling out players and talking about them on here, then having the nerve to thank Ash for all he has done yet many are the same who were calling for his head all year. What a pathetic disgrace this has become. Let me get this straight, a guy who has went 70-38, has won 3 Big Sky Championships, has kept 100 plus players for the most part squeaky clean, but oh he can't win the big one or big game - like those coaches are just hanging around to come to MSU. I will bet the house tbat our next coach won't last as long as Ash has and will not go 70-38, I will take the under to the Max. Let's see, the current jobs out there now to name a few are USC, Miami, South Carolina, Missouri, Syracuse - but we are going on a nation wide search to find us that great coach. Even the assistant job is better at these schools and pays more - aka - Mac! MSU is not a hot bed for athletes or coaches to come to, I said that before, somebody even mentioned Paul Petrino - God - not even on the same level as Ash! I feel our fan base has become a bunch of spoiled rotten fans due to what Ash has brought us. Shame on us for letting our coach go in this manner, perhaps the lunatics have more influence than I thought. Perhaps they should have given Fields some ideas on how to keep our program a class act - what a way to tell Ash goodbye! Change can be good but change in the right way! I sure hope Cramsey gets the job, the players love him and he is our only chance to make us competitive next year. Otherwise we start from scratch with probably a new freshmen QB and others who are untested. You see, it's about more than wins and losses, we are more than that. And the players Ash brought in know that. The silent voices need to step up and stop the lunacy- I am sorry it took me 3 years to post! Go Bobcats!

So you don't think it's possible to appreciate and respect Ash for the job he's done over the past nine years, while also believing that we might need to make a change to eventually take that proverbial "next step". I'm sorry, but I just don't believe those two things are necessarily mutually exclusive. I believe Rob Ash did a very good job for the most part. He seemed like a great person, and I thank him for his contributions to MSU. The last nine years will be remembered as a very good time in the history of the football program. That being said, I think we made the right decision yesterday.

Put me the camp that thinks it was the wrong decision. Most of all, right or wrong, as far as I'm concerned it was very poorly handled. It seems meeting expectations is the new standard. As far as I am concerned, Peter Fields has not met standards for some time. His handling of Kramer's departure and now this one. Additionally, apparently his "expectations" for the basketball programs are obviously not the same as the football program and certainly different than mine since we haven't been competitive for years. Although Coach Fish seems to be a good one, by the current "win at all costs" mentality, he should have been gone after last year.

[utucats]

Are these people really Bobcat fans? After reading the posts over the last few years and today what a joke this is. Still calling out players and talking about them on here, then having the nerve to thank Ash for all he has done yet many are the same who were calling for his head all year. What a pathetic disgrace this has become. Let me get this straight, a guy who has went 70-38, has won 3 Big Sky Championships, has kept 100 plus players for the most part squeaky clean, but oh he can't win the big one or big game - like those coaches are just hanging around to come to MSU. I will bet the house tbat our next coach won't last as long as Ash has and will not go 70-38, I will take the under to the Max. Let's see, the current jobs out there now to name a few are USC, Miami, South Carolina, Missouri, Syracuse - but we are going on a nation wide search to find us that great coach. Even the assistant job is better at these schools and pays more - aka - Mac! MSU is not a hot bed for athletes or coaches to come to, I said that before, somebody even mentioned Paul Petrino - God - not even on the same level as Ash! I feel our fan base has become a bunch of spoiled rotten fans due to what Ash has brought us. Shame on us for letting our coach go in this manner, perhaps the lunatics have more influence than I thought. Perhaps they should have given Fields some ideas on how to keep our program a class act - what a way to tell Ash goodbye! Change can be good but change in the right way! I sure hope Cramsey gets the job, the players love him and he is our only chance to make us competitive next year. Otherwise we start from scratch with probably a new freshmen QB and others who are untested. You see, it's about more than wins and losses, we are more than that. And the players Ash brought in know that. The silent voices need to step up and stop the lunacy- I am sorry it took me 3 years to post! Go Bobcats!

So you don't think it's possible to appreciate and respect Ash for the job he's done over the past nine years, while also believing that we might need to make a change to eventually take that proverbial "next step". I'm sorry, but I just don't believe those two things are necessarily mutually exclusive. I believe Rob Ash did a very good job for the most part. He seemed like a great person, and I thank him for his contributions to MSU. The last nine years will be remembered as a very good time in the history of the football program. That being said, I think we made the right decision yesterday.

Put me the camp that thinks it was the wrong decision. Most of all, right or wrong, as far as I'm concerned it was very poorly handled. It seems meeting expectations is the new standard. As far as I am concerned, Peter Fields has not met standards for some time. His handling of Kramer's departure and now this one. Additionally, apparently his "expectations" for the basketball programs are obviously not the same as the football program and certainly different than mine since we haven't been competitive for years. Although Coach Fish seems to be a good one, by the current "win at all costs" mentality, he should have been gone after last year.

Wow, so the comparison is that Fish should be fired after 1 season because Ash was after he had 9 years under his belt? Cmon guys, be a little bit reasonable. Ash had all the time any coach should expect to cement himself as head coach, he didn't do that. I like the man but what happened yesterday is on him.

[The Butcher]

Changes come in all organizations and frankly MSU football was due.

It looks like LSU is letting Les Miles go after a .775 winning percent, second all-time wins (7-4 with one game left on the season), and a national championship. Letting a good coach go to get to the next level or revive a stagnant program is how football works. We all want "good guys" to last forever, but fans and boosters give their money to a team that wins. Obviously enough people felt a change was due, and therefore Ash was let go. That is the nature of his chosen profession- and I would add that Ash has been paid VERY well over the past 9 years to meet our expectations.

[technoCat]

Guess I'll answer all three in one.

The offense in our wins avg 46 pts. Sure the defense also avg 16 pts a game in those wins but one of those was against a first year program and a d2. I don't see how any rational person could place blame on the off for any of the losses this year. I truly believe the defense got stronger and much improved as the year went on. The gap control was bad all year but was much better in the last two weeks. Which is my exact point. It takes time to learn a new system. Nothing happens over night.

My logic behind saying the off will be disassembled if cramsey isn't highered as hc is simple. Cramsey has applied for the hc position if he doesn't get it, he isn't staying on as oc. If he leaves that means possible new scheme or similar scheme but the nuances of that similar scheme will still be different. As for the same qb, I don't beleive Dakota stays if their is a new oc. If I was him I wouldn't. He would be faced with learning a new system here or learning a new system elsewhere. I'm sure there is a bcs team that would give him a chance and moving to a bcs team gives him the chance to showcase his talent in a bigger stage. Sure the rbs and wrs will be the same but they will also be learning a new system. It takes years not weeks or months to understand and fully implement a new scheme. There is also the possibility that our players don't fit the scheme of the new coach and find themselves on the outside looking in.

As for the griz, they didn't change dc and their defense is their strength and remained unchanged.

All I'm saying is cramsey gives us the best chance to win now. Barneyball is the perfect example of promotion from within.

Call me irrational. The defense played good enough that our vaunted offense should have had hefty leads against SU and UM. They gave us plenty of chances to get a lead against UND. Our offense put up great numbers but got either predictable or didn't execute when the game was on the line on several occasions. I'm not saying I don't want Cramsey to stick around or anything, just that their is some growth potential for our offense at least in terms of consistency.