Bobcat Unity will be CRITICAL

[CatsNoMatterWhat]

I don't think everyone ever did unite behind Ash, even 9 years later. People still compared Ash to Kramer and hell, there were people campaigning just last year that Ash should be canned and hire Kramer back. I think there's a great correlation between people believing Kramer should not have been terminated and the crowd pushing for Ash's termination the last several years. Remember that as well, this can Ash talk didn't start the last three weeks. There has been a vocal minority on that bandwagon for years. Kind of a perverse, "You fired my guy, I want your guy fired" thing.

Judging by the fact that we regularly draw 18,000 plus to the games, and the Bobcat Club and QB Club membership has grown throughout his tenure, I'd say that the overwhelming majority of Bobcat fans did unite behind Ash. I disagreed with Kramer's firing, and I've been plenty critical of Ash at various times over the years, although I never once called for him to be fired. Even now, I have slightly mixed feelings about it, although deep down I believe we made the right decision yesterday. My support for Bobcat football has never wavered though. I missed only three home games during Ash's tenure, and even made quite a few (8-10) road games. I've been very involved in the Triangle Classic for the past 5-6 years, which by the way has also grown significantly during Ash's tenure. So it seems all that support came from somewhere, and I'd be willing to bet that more than a few "Kramer guys" such as myself, have contributed in various ways to the growth of the program during Ash's time at MSU.

Thanks for the reply - and thanks for all your support over the years. Sincere question - how do you imagine this decision came to pass? I mean, do you suppose Fields and Cruzado have been fielding angry emails and calls from big donors, player's families, etc - and this was a pressured decision? Or do you think this was a sincere job performance-evaluated dismissal? Or somewhere in between?

This question wasn't directed at me, but I'm going to toss in my thoughts...

I think the decision to move on from Coach Ash was made after the SUU loss; I think this decision was precipitated by an agreement between Fields and Cruzado that if Ash didn't win the last 3...he was out (or maybe even 2 of the last 3). Was this thinking the product of angry e-mails? Perhaps. Was it the product of calls from donors, players families, etc? Perhaps.

Or...was it the product of a severe lack of depth on D, which signals potential recruiting deficiencies compounded by a 2.5 year slide and an AWFUL record against the other two BSC powerhouses? I would say definitely. Couple this with the strange personnel moves (Kane+Marshall as DC being the prime example) and I think PF and WC realized things were not going in a good direction. Furthermore, judging from what we know of the conversation between Fields and Ash yesterday (a tense disagreement on the decision), Ash wasn't prepared to do anything drastic to correct the situation; I have a feeling things were at a stand still 4 weeks ago and didn't get any better after Saturday.

I very well could be wrong...but that's how it smells to me.

[Joe Bobcat]

Sadly I think you are correct kk. There are many - myself included- who were pissed at the firing of coach K but chose to move forward with full support of coach Ash. I've never regretted that choice and plan to put my full faith and support behind the next coach. But I do pray it's not pocket pool bh.

[catscat]

Well the decision has been made. I think everyone agrees that Rob Ash is an outstanding person who accomplished
some great things at MSU. But that era is now over and it seems to me that while all this speculation on potential candidates makes
for fun discussion and opinion, I truly do hope that the vast majority of Cat fans will allow the process to play out and then unify behind the new coach who
is selected. I believe that a unified Montana State University going forward is going to be a force to deal with.
Go Cats

I agree 100%. Whether you love, like, dislike, or hate the hire that will be made in the coming weeks, the players need to know the fans are excited for the new perspective, voice, and energy the new coach will bring, and most importantly, we are excited to see them take the field in 8 months so we can start cheering again. This is where the great fan bases separate themselves from the good, bad, and awful ones.

Ok so now that the fire Ash crowd got their way, those of us opposed to the move just have to fall in line? we're all supposed to jump for joy that the winningest coach in program history was fired by our bean counter in chief? Sure I'll support our players, but our next coach better not have a losing season or 2, or Fields and him have to be fired if you want to maintain any credibility. Color me very skeptical.

There has been (in my opinion) a very healthy discussion on this message board regarding Coach Ash's future. I posted Saturday evening that us "re constructionists" (again, HT to Driscoll for the term) fell into 2 categories:

1) Those who have a GREAT appreciation for Coach Ash, his character, his success, and what he's done; but we feel that nothing lasts forever and it is simply time for a change
2) Those who wanted to witness a bloody, public execution and embarrassment of a good man (the angry crowd)

I have gone to GREAT LENGTHS to ensure I stay aligned with the first group. Others have not. I have felt very melancholy all day today, particularly because I had myself convinced Coach Ash would choose to resign and that agreement would be worked out. Instead, he fought to the end, apparently unhappy with the decision. Be that as it may, I feel the correct decision was made for a number of reasons. I will gladly copy/paste my long explanation of my feelings (which were seen as reasonable by several avid Ash supporters) at anybody's request.

Credibility is earned through rational behavior and consistency, blended with a willingness to admit fault. If Fields makes a poor hire, we fall into obscurity, and the whole thing becomes a gigantic mess...I, along with all the other people who have shared my feelings, will admit I was wrong.

What I won't do is preemptively pigeonhole myself or anybody else into a train of thought that says "if this doesn't work out JUST RIGHT then I'm an ignoramus", because that wouldn't be the case. Opinions are based on observation; the observation over the past three years is we have had an aging coach who has been unable--try as he has--to correct a slide. Nothing last forever.

Please don't lump reasonable people together with unreasonable people simply because we share a common premise.

Thank you

Thanks CNMW. That was a great post. You expressed my own feelings about this situation perfectly. I too felt very melancholy yesterday, even though I believe we made the right decision. As for those who criticize "the way it was handled"...how else could it have been handled? I don't know this for a fact, but I'd be willing to bet that Ash was given the option to "retire", as opposed to being terminated, given that he's going on 65 years old, but that he chose to decline that option. I found nothing objectionable or disrespectful to Ash, in the way PF handled the announcement yesterday, and I'm no PF fan, so I would be happy to point out fault, if I felt it was deserved. Once the decision is made, there's really no good way to deliver the news, either to Ash himself or the media, but I thought PF handled it as graciously as possible, given the circumstances.

As for Bobcat fans uniting, I'd ask everyone to remember how controversial the Kramer firing was 8-1/2 years ago. Controversial enough,, that a petition was circulated to rehire him, which was signed by several hundred (maybe closer to 1,000) boosters and fans. We survived that though, as everyone eventually united behind Coach Ash, and Bobcat nation emerged stronger than ever. I hope things will play out the same way this time.

How else could it have been handled???? For one thing, get rid of the "didn't meet expectations" crap. Do you suppose Fields sat down at the beginning of the year and said, "Okay Rob, the expectations are that you win the Big Sky Conference title, beat the griz, and make a playoff run, meet them or you're fired."

[DriscollCat]

CatsNoMatterWhat,

I think that some of us are going to need time to put this behind us. Eventually we will, but right now we are extremely disappointed.

Unfortunately, we do not have a good recent history of supporting our head coach. IMHO, we have gotten to the point in our fan base where the better we get the more we will attract fans whose expectations can't be met. The expectation to compete for a conference title every year came to be during Ash's tenure.

I have said it before, I will support our head coach, whoever it is. I hope my fellow Ash supporters will do the same.

Goldstone/KittieKop,

I think CNMW has made this point already, but it's important not to conflate all "reconstructuonists". Some of them (CNMW, UTU) are very reasonable even if they are wrong

[allcat]

I think the new guy is an ungrateful jerk, leaving us after 3 years and just 2 national championships. I have read that we will settle for nothing less.

[ilovethecats]

How else could it have been handled???? For one thing, get rid of the "didn't meet expectations" crap. Do you suppose Fields sat down at the beginning of the year and said, "Okay Rob, the expectations are that you win the Big Sky Conference title, beat the griz, and make a playoff run, meet them or you're fired."

my guess is they line up expectations every season. for sure they did this past summer when they worked out the extension. i imagine, of the expectations drawn up, they included keeping kids out of trouble and in class, winning all home games, beating the griz, beating ewu, winning the big sky, having a winning record, and making the playoffs. it's highly unlikely ash was required to meet ALL of these expectations to remain the coach but usually every year many of these are goals. of those, he did none of them except keep kids out of trouble which is good, but not enough. i think it's very fair, and very accurate to say ash didn't meet expectations.

maybe you don't like the expectations. maybe you feel they are too hard to achieve. but unless you know exactly what the goals of the year were, it's tough to say that it was "crap" that he didn't meet them.

[utucats]

CatsNoMatterWhat,

I think that some of us are going to need time to put this behind us. Eventually we will, but right now we are extremely disappointed.

Unfortunately, we do not have a good recent history of supporting our head coach. IMHO, we have gotten to the point in our fan base where the better we get the more we will attract fans whose expectations can't be met. The expectation to compete for a conference title every year came to be during Ash's tenure.

I have said it before, I will support our head coach, whoever it is. I hope my fellow Ash supporters will do the same.

Goldstone/KittieKop,

I think CNMW has made this point already, but it's important not to conflate all "reconstructuonists". Some of them (CNMW, UTU) are very reasonable even if they are wrong

[KittieKop]

CatsNoMatterWhat,

I think that some of us are going to need time to put this behind us. Eventually we will, but right now we are extremely disappointed.

Unfortunately, we do not have a good recent history of supporting our head coach. IMHO, we have gotten to the point in our fan base where the better we get the more we will attract fans whose expectations can't be met. The expectation to compete for a conference title every year came to be during Ash's tenure.

I have said it before, I will support our head coach, whoever it is. I hope my fellow Ash supporters will do the same.

Goldstone/KittieKop,

I think CNMW has made this point already, but it's important not to conflate all "reconstructuonists". Some of them (CNMW, UTU) are very reasonable even if they are wrong

I agree, and the only thing I ask is that the "reconstructionists" - as I expressed in another thread - don't lump all the "supporters" into a group of people who settle for mediocrity by way of our opinions either. If you expect to be respected, please do the courtesy and show others the same.

[DriscollCat]

CatsNoMatterWhat,

I think that some of us are going to need time to put this behind us. Eventually we will, but right now we are extremely disappointed.

Unfortunately, we do not have a good recent history of supporting our head coach. IMHO, we have gotten to the point in our fan base where the better we get the more we will attract fans whose expectations can't be met. The expectation to compete for a conference title every year came to be during Ash's tenure.

I have said it before, I will support our head coach, whoever it is. I hope my fellow Ash supporters will do the same.

Goldstone/KittieKop,

I think CNMW has made this point already, but it's important not to conflate all "reconstructuonists". Some of them (CNMW, UTU) are very reasonable even if they are wrong

I agree, and the only thing I ask is that the "reconstructionists" - as I expressed in another thread - don't lump all the "supporters" into a group of people who settle for mediocrity by way of our opinions either. If you expect to be respected, please do the courtesy and show others the same.

I completely agree with that.

[utucats]

CatsNoMatterWhat,

I think that some of us are going to need time to put this behind us. Eventually we will, but right now we are extremely disappointed.

Unfortunately, we do not have a good recent history of supporting our head coach. IMHO, we have gotten to the point in our fan base where the better we get the more we will attract fans whose expectations can't be met. The expectation to compete for a conference title every year came to be during Ash's tenure.

I have said it before, I will support our head coach, whoever it is. I hope my fellow Ash supporters will do the same.

Goldstone/KittieKop,

I think CNMW has made this point already, but it's important not to conflate all "reconstructuonists". Some of them (CNMW, UTU) are very reasonable even if they are wrong

I agree, and the only thing I ask is that the "reconstructionists" - as I expressed in another thread - don't lump all the "supporters" into a group of people who settle for mediocrity by way of our opinions either. If you expect to be respected, please do the courtesy and show others the same.

Agree completely. I know that both you and Driscoll want what's best for the program. Obviously we disagree on the path but we are hoping for the same end result. That's why I believe we have unity. I think if we were all friends we'd get along great and maybe disagree on the how but be in agreement on where we wanted to go as a program.

[DriscollCat]

Same here. I think we probably even have as much in common with each other as we do with those who agree with our respective opinions. For that reason, I think we should all be acknowledging when we see logical fallacies on both sides of the debate. IMHO, that is what usually leads to more interesting conversation all around.

[Norsky19]

Well the decision has been made. I think everyone agrees that Rob Ash is an outstanding person who accomplished
some great things at MSU. But that era is now over and it seems to me that while all this speculation on potential candidates makes
for fun discussion and opinion, I truly do hope that the vast majority of Cat fans will allow the process to play out and then unify behind the new coach who
is selected. I believe that a unified Montana State University going forward is going to be a force to deal with.
Go Cats

I agree 100%. Whether you love, like, dislike, or hate the hire that will be made in the coming weeks, the players need to know the fans are excited for the new perspective, voice, and energy the new coach will bring, and most importantly, we are excited to see them take the field in 8 months so we can start cheering again. This is where the great fan bases separate themselves from the good, bad, and awful ones.

Ok so now that the fire Ash crowd got their way, those of us opposed to the move just have to fall in line? we're all supposed to jump for joy that the winningest coach in program history was fired by our bean counter in chief? Sure I'll support our players, but our next coach better not have a losing season or 2, or Fields and him have to be fired if you want to maintain any credibility. Color me very skeptical.

There has been (in my opinion) a very healthy discussion on this message board regarding Coach Ash's future. I posted Saturday evening that us "re constructionists" (again, HT to Driscoll for the term) fell into 2 categories:

1) Those who have a GREAT appreciation for Coach Ash, his character, his success, and what he's done; but we feel that nothing lasts forever and it is simply time for a change
2) Those who wanted to witness a bloody, public execution and embarrassment of a good man (the angry crowd)

I have gone to GREAT LENGTHS to ensure I stay aligned with the first group. Others have not. I have felt very melancholy all day today, particularly because I had myself convinced Coach Ash would choose to resign and that agreement would be worked out. Instead, he fought to the end, apparently unhappy with the decision. Be that as it may, I feel the correct decision was made for a number of reasons. I will gladly copy/paste my long explanation of my feelings (which were seen as reasonable by several avid Ash supporters) at anybody's request.

Credibility is earned through rational behavior and consistency, blended with a willingness to admit fault. If Fields makes a poor hire, we fall into obscurity, and the whole thing becomes a gigantic mess...I, along with all the other people who have shared my feelings, will admit I was wrong.

What I won't do is preemptively pigeonhole myself or anybody else into a train of thought that says "if this doesn't work out JUST RIGHT then I'm an ignoramus", because that wouldn't be the case. Opinions are based on observation; the observation over the past three years is we have had an aging coach who has been unable--try as he has--to correct a slide. Nothing last forever.

Please don't lump reasonable people together with unreasonable people simply because we share a common premise.

Thank you

In the conversation I had with you just yesterday I totally agree and respect where you're standing. I would also argue that what ended up happening was closer to the public execution that the haters have been blood thirsty for, than to the graceful, peaceful passing of the torch you supported. Like I said yesterday, I'm probably leaning to the opinion a change was soon needed, but not like this. And for people to come back today and try to assure some of us that everything's OK if we just stick together. The nerve. Some of us are a little angry and disappointed in how this played out. Frankly, rather than sticking together, I have some ideas where the vile haters can stick it.

I'm not happy with the way it went down today either. I wish it hadn't gone that way; and I will be quick to correct anybody I observe dancing on Coach Ash's proverbial grave. I would hope other Cats who LOVE the school, the program, and the players would do the same.

I respect your passion and, frankly, agree with your assessment of the vampires.

I'll repeat what I said yesterday - I like you! You and I see eye to eye.

Feelings mutual, I enjoy you're posts.

Get a room.

[KittieKop]

Same here. I think we probably even have as much in common with each other as we do with those who agree with our respective opinions. For that reason, I think we should all be acknowledging when we see logical fallacies on both sides of the debate. IMHO, that is what usually leads to more interesting conversation all around.

I'm sure I too will be back on board. Eventually. I can guarantee you I will renew my BC membership in the spring, renew my 3 season tickets and try to add another, will try to be at the Triangle Classic Scrimmage in Great Falls in April (assuming this continues with the new coach) and will be back in 113 in August. Like you, I need some time to work out my anger and disappointment in all this. I'm not going to point fingers, but I haven't seen anyone threatening to walk away from MSU because of the firing, like there were after the UM loss and before the firing. I think everyone is trying to get to the end of this and we'll all be back behind the new coach in the fall.

[CatsNoMatterWhat]

CatsNoMatterWhat,

I think that some of us are going to need time to put this behind us. Eventually we will, but right now we are extremely disappointed.

Unfortunately, we do not have a good recent history of supporting our head coach. IMHO, we have gotten to the point in our fan base where the better we get the more we will attract fans whose expectations can't be met. The expectation to compete for a conference title every year came to be during Ash's tenure.

I have said it before, I will support our head coach, whoever it is. I hope my fellow Ash supporters will do the same.

Goldstone/KittieKop,

I think CNMW has made this point already, but it's important not to conflate all "reconstructuonists". Some of them (CNMW, UTU) are very reasonable even if they are wrong

I agree, and the only thing I ask is that the "reconstructionists" - as I expressed in another thread - don't lump all the "supporters" into a group of people who settle for mediocrity by way of our opinions either. If you expect to be respected, please do the courtesy and show others the same.

This is well stated; the "re constructionists" have to play fair also. I am glad there are so many supporters; if everybody universally wants a Coach canned then I would say we have bigger problems. Furthermore, I think it's important to re-state that those of us in group 1 APPRECIATE Coach Ash...we just feel that he has leveled off and we need a new bump. In fact, I don't think any BN poster has said awful things about him...we all recognize he has been critical to the success of the program...but (as I've said 1,000,000,000,000 times...I'm sure it's getting tiresome) NOTHING LASTS FOREVER. I really think that's where we're at here; Coach Ash had simply reached the end of his time at MSU. I think he'll do great at his next stop, good man, good coach.

Thank-you.

[KittieKop]

Maybe this doesn't belong in this thread, but all the threads this week are basically the same subject, I'll throw it here

This question is outside my obvious agenda - its sincere, I'm trying to process it for myself:

One of the Sac St fans was on a thread yesterday more or less saying they'd take Ash in a heartbeat. I sincerely believe probably 10 out of the 13 BSC teams would grab Rob Ash as a coach were they in a market for a coach now, and Ash is now available. The obvious exceptions are MSU (duh), EWU and UM. I'm NOT saying teams would can their coach to grab him, but I'm proposing Ash could be their top candidate were they hiring a coach.

IF that's true, how far does that extend to other FCS programs? There are very few "elite" FCS programs that have sustained success, and can truly attract top FCS-level coaching talent. Even with this year's record at MSU, do you think he'd be attractive to, say, a Sam Houston or Coastal Carolina program if they were looking? I think he'd be a top candidate for 80% of FCS programs, but interested in what others think of that top 20% or so?

[utucats]

Maybe this doesn't belong in this thread, but all the threads this week are basically the same subject, I'll throw it here

This question is outside my obvious agenda - its sincere, I'm trying to process it for myself:

One of the Sac St fans was on a thread yesterday more or less saying they'd take Ash in a heartbeat. I sincerely believe probably 10 out of the 13 BSC teams would grab Rob Ash as a coach were they in a market for a coach now, and Ash is now available. The obvious exceptions are MSU (duh), EWU and UM. I'm NOT saying teams would can their coach to grab him, but I'm proposing Ash could be their top candidate were they hiring a coach.

IF that's true, how far does that extend to other FCS programs? There are very few "elite" FCS programs that have sustained success, and can truly attract top FCS-level coaching talent. Even with this year's record at MSU, do you think he'd be attractive to, say, a Sam Houston or Coastal Carolina program if they were looking? I think he'd be a top candidate for 80% of FCS programs, but interested in what others think of that top 20% or so?

I'm not sure if a program like Sam Houston or Coastal Carolina would seriously consider Ash as they are at the point where expectations are for success in the playoffs and hopefully a NC. Considering Ash's resume late in the year it would be hard to argue that hiring him would put them over the top in that regard. Maybe a top tier FCS program that needs cleaning up academically or has had players getting into trouble would look at how well Ash did on those fronts here and bring him in. Also a historically sub .500 program would probably look at his success in Bozeman and look to him to help make them relevant. Sac st is a perfect example.

[KittieKop]

Maybe this doesn't belong in this thread, but all the threads this week are basically the same subject, I'll throw it here

This question is outside my obvious agenda - its sincere, I'm trying to process it for myself:

One of the Sac St fans was on a thread yesterday more or less saying they'd take Ash in a heartbeat. I sincerely believe probably 10 out of the 13 BSC teams would grab Rob Ash as a coach were they in a market for a coach now, and Ash is now available. The obvious exceptions are MSU (duh), EWU and UM. I'm NOT saying teams would can their coach to grab him, but I'm proposing Ash could be their top candidate were they hiring a coach.

IF that's true, how far does that extend to other FCS programs? There are very few "elite" FCS programs that have sustained success, and can truly attract top FCS-level coaching talent. Even with this year's record at MSU, do you think he'd be attractive to, say, a Sam Houston or Coastal Carolina program if they were looking? I think he'd be a top candidate for 80% of FCS programs, but interested in what others think of that top 20% or so?

I'm not sure if a program like Sam Houston or Coastal Carolina would seriously consider Ash as they are at the point where expectations are for success in the playoffs and hopefully a NC. Considering Ash's resume late in the year it would be hard to argue that hiring him would put them over the top in that regard. Maybe a top tier FCS program that needs cleaning up academically or has had players getting into trouble would look at how well Ash did on those fronts here and bring him in. Also a historically sub .500 program would probably look at his success in Bozeman and look to him to help make them relevant. Sac st is a perfect example.

Seriously think about this one: Do you think there's anything at MSU, that combined with Ash's strengths/weaknesses, helped contribute to his struggles late in the season/playoffs? I mean, you think there's something at, oh.....NDSU, that if Ash were coaching there, you'd see different results? Facilities, recruiting resources, geographical location, the AD, differences in booster clubs.....I don't know. Part of the reason I'm having trouble with this is I refuse to believe a coach top 20 in all time wins for active coaches can't figure out playoff wins/rivalry games/etc. He's not dumb nor lacking in coaching skills.

[utucats]

Maybe this doesn't belong in this thread, but all the threads this week are basically the same subject, I'll throw it here

This question is outside my obvious agenda - its sincere, I'm trying to process it for myself:

One of the Sac St fans was on a thread yesterday more or less saying they'd take Ash in a heartbeat. I sincerely believe probably 10 out of the 13 BSC teams would grab Rob Ash as a coach were they in a market for a coach now, and Ash is now available. The obvious exceptions are MSU (duh), EWU and UM. I'm NOT saying teams would can their coach to grab him, but I'm proposing Ash could be their top candidate were they hiring a coach.

IF that's true, how far does that extend to other FCS programs? There are very few "elite" FCS programs that have sustained success, and can truly attract top FCS-level coaching talent. Even with this year's record at MSU, do you think he'd be attractive to, say, a Sam Houston or Coastal Carolina program if they were looking? I think he'd be a top candidate for 80% of FCS programs, but interested in what others think of that top 20% or so?

I'm not sure if a program like Sam Houston or Coastal Carolina would seriously consider Ash as they are at the point where expectations are for success in the playoffs and hopefully a NC. Considering Ash's resume late in the year it would be hard to argue that hiring him would put them over the top in that regard. Maybe a top tier FCS program that needs cleaning up academically or has had players getting into trouble would look at how well Ash did on those fronts here and bring him in. Also a historically sub .500 program would probably look at his success in Bozeman and look to him to help make them relevant. Sac st is a perfect example.

Seriously think about this one: Do you think there's anything at MSU, that combined with Ash's strengths/weaknesses, helped contribute to his struggles late in the season/playoffs? I mean, you think there's something at, oh.....NDSU, that if Ash were coaching there, you'd see different results? Facilities, recruiting resources, geographical location, the AD, differences in booster clubs.....I don't know. Part of the reason I'm having trouble with this is I refuse to believe a coach top 20 in all time wins for active coaches can't figure out playoff wins/rivalry games/etc. He's not dumb nor lacking in coaching skills.

That's a hard question to answer but I've always felt that Ash's business like approach worked well in games we were supposed to win. Think about how Kramer's teams would get up for big games like they did against Colorado but then lay an egg in games we expected them to win. It's almost like Kramer didn't show the same fire from one week to the next and you could almost see it when the team took the field. When Ash played tougher opponents I felt like when we needed someone to challenge the players we didn't really get that and usually ended up getting blown out. Some coaches just know how to get the most from their players and some like Kramer can do it sometimes while others like Ash get consistent performance but can't get that little extra when needed.

I think NDSU is a great example, since Bohl has left they aren't the same team. Still good but not near as dominate. They still have a lot of Bohl's Influence all over that program but I predict as the years go on and Bohl's influence gets farther and farther removed you'll see them slip more and more. Of course that just my opinion and might be completely wrong.

[LongTimeCatFan]

Maybe this doesn't belong in this thread, but all the threads this week are basically the same subject, I'll throw it here

This question is outside my obvious agenda - its sincere, I'm trying to process it for myself:

One of the Sac St fans was on a thread yesterday more or less saying they'd take Ash in a heartbeat. I sincerely believe probably 10 out of the 13 BSC teams would grab Rob Ash as a coach were they in a market for a coach now, and Ash is now available. The obvious exceptions are MSU (duh), EWU and UM. I'm NOT saying teams would can their coach to grab him, but I'm proposing Ash could be their top candidate were they hiring a coach.

IF that's true, how far does that extend to other FCS programs? There are very few "elite" FCS programs that have sustained success, and can truly attract top FCS-level coaching talent. Even with this year's record at MSU, do you think he'd be attractive to, say, a Sam Houston or Coastal Carolina program if they were looking? I think he'd be a top candidate for 80% of FCS programs, but interested in what others think of that top 20% or so?

I'm not sure if a program like Sam Houston or Coastal Carolina would seriously consider Ash as they are at the point where expectations are for success in the playoffs and hopefully a NC. Considering Ash's resume late in the year it would be hard to argue that hiring him would put them over the top in that regard. Maybe a top tier FCS program that needs cleaning up academically or has had players getting into trouble would look at how well Ash did on those fronts here and bring him in. Also a historically sub .500 program would probably look at his success in Bozeman and look to him to help make them relevant. Sac st is a perfect example.

Seriously think about this one: Do you think there's anything at MSU, that combined with Ash's strengths/weaknesses, helped contribute to his struggles late in the season/playoffs? I mean, you think there's something at, oh.....NDSU, that if Ash were coaching there, you'd see different results? Facilities, recruiting resources, geographical location, the AD, differences in booster clubs.....I don't know. Part of the reason I'm having trouble with this is I refuse to believe a coach top 20 in all time wins for active coaches can't figure out playoff wins/rivalry games/etc. He's not dumb nor lacking in coaching skills.

I agree, but I think you need to listen to Colter's interview of him. There are a couple of enlightening points that explain why it appeared that we weren't prepared for upper level competition. It's in his philosophy of coaching.

[KittieKop]

Maybe this doesn't belong in this thread, but all the threads this week are basically the same subject, I'll throw it here

This question is outside my obvious agenda - its sincere, I'm trying to process it for myself:

One of the Sac St fans was on a thread yesterday more or less saying they'd take Ash in a heartbeat. I sincerely believe probably 10 out of the 13 BSC teams would grab Rob Ash as a coach were they in a market for a coach now, and Ash is now available. The obvious exceptions are MSU (duh), EWU and UM. I'm NOT saying teams would can their coach to grab him, but I'm proposing Ash could be their top candidate were they hiring a coach.

IF that's true, how far does that extend to other FCS programs? There are very few "elite" FCS programs that have sustained success, and can truly attract top FCS-level coaching talent. Even with this year's record at MSU, do you think he'd be attractive to, say, a Sam Houston or Coastal Carolina program if they were looking? I think he'd be a top candidate for 80% of FCS programs, but interested in what others think of that top 20% or so?

I'm not sure if a program like Sam Houston or Coastal Carolina would seriously consider Ash as they are at the point where expectations are for success in the playoffs and hopefully a NC. Considering Ash's resume late in the year it would be hard to argue that hiring him would put them over the top in that regard. Maybe a top tier FCS program that needs cleaning up academically or has had players getting into trouble would look at how well Ash did on those fronts here and bring him in. Also a historically sub .500 program would probably look at his success in Bozeman and look to him to help make them relevant. Sac st is a perfect example.

Seriously think about this one: Do you think there's anything at MSU, that combined with Ash's strengths/weaknesses, helped contribute to his struggles late in the season/playoffs? I mean, you think there's something at, oh.....NDSU, that if Ash were coaching there, you'd see different results? Facilities, recruiting resources, geographical location, the AD, differences in booster clubs.....I don't know. Part of the reason I'm having trouble with this is I refuse to believe a coach top 20 in all time wins for active coaches can't figure out playoff wins/rivalry games/etc. He's not dumb nor lacking in coaching skills.

That's a hard question to answer but I've always felt that Ash's business like approach worked well in games we were supposed to win. Think about how Kramer's teams would get up for big games like they did against Colorado but then lay an egg in games we expected them to win. It's almost like Kramer didn't show the same fire from one week to the next and you could almost see it when the team took the field. When Ash played tougher opponents I felt like when we needed someone to challenge the players we didn't really get that and usually ended up getting blown out. Some coaches just know how to get the most from their players and some like Kramer can do it sometimes while others like Ash get consistent performance but can't get that little extra when needed.

I think NDSU is a great example, since Bohl has left they aren't the same team. Still good but not near as dominate. They still have a lot of Bohl's Influence all over that program but I predict as the years go on and Bohl's influence gets farther and farther removed you'll see them slip more and more. Of course that just my opinion and might be completely wrong.

Why do you think Ash typically got really good performances out of his teams in his FBS play up games? Other than the A&M game and the Kansas State games early in his tenure here, he came very close to winning several - Minnesota we were within a couple kicking game plays of winning that one, should have won the Washington State game and really should have also won the SMU game. If you want, put the last two on playcalling - but it wasn't for not getting performance out of the players. (I'm throwing out Michigan State as that truly was an unwinnable game for the Cats).

Why such relatively good results with tough FBS games, but mediocre results against tough FCS competition?