Fields

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AlphaOAlum
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Re: Fields

Post by AlphaOAlum » Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:10 pm

MeerKat wrote:
AlphaOAlum wrote:
MeerKat wrote:
GoldstoneCat wrote:Peter Fields just put himself on the clock. I'm not arguing with his right to make the change, although I wouldn't have done it without giving Coach Ash and this staff one more crack to turn it around. But if our program doesn't have 32-34 wins, at least a win over the grizzlies, and a couple playoff berths in the next 4 seasons, then Fields and whomever he chooses to hire need to be fired at that time. Otherwise, you have no credibility as an athletic department, because that's the performance you just fired the winningest coach in school history for. 31-18, a win in Missoula, and 2 playoff appearances the last 4 seasons. There's your benchmark, Peter, so you better be sure on this one.
Not sure where your numbers come from. Comparing your expectations for this new coach to what Ash did in his first 4 years your numbers are far exceeding those of what Ash did. In Ash's first 4 years he won 29 games made the playoffs 1 time and beat the Griz 1 time. If you're going to hold a new coach accountable to at least match his predecessor then Ash wouldn't of been here anymore. Kramer his last 4 years won 28 games (Ash 29 his first 4), Kramer made the playoffs 2 times and one other time he finished 1st but lost tiebreakers to UofM and EWU. Had it been the bracket of today 24 teams he would of made it 3 times. (Ash 1 playoff team in first 4 years). Kramer beat the Griz 2 times. (Ash 1 victory over the Griz) He took over a team from Kramer that finished the previous season 8 - 5. So why does the new coach have to win 32 to 34 games? Why does he have to make the playoffs 2 times? To be as good as Ash in his first 4 years he would need to win 29 games, beat the griz 1 time and make the playoffs 1 time. Also the new coach will be taking over a team that was 5-6 not 8-5 like Ash did.

A new coach will need some time to make the team his own. I'm not a big fan of Peter Fields but I have to say looking at the state of the program the last couple years a change needed to be made. Fields made a mistake signing him to a new contact last year and I'm guessing it will come back to bite him in the form of a buyout. But the program needed a new leader and Fields did what he had to do. When a program becomes stagnate like the Cats have the last 3 years its time for a new voice.
Point of clarification: 3 times. 2002, 2003, 2005 (the last time they won in Bzn)
Correct but only 2 times in his last 4 years
Ahh, I see how you were formatting your statistics now. Gotcha.



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Re: Fields

Post by SonomaCat » Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:39 pm

CatRowdy wrote:
AlphaOAlum wrote:Duplicate post:
I'm wondering what Fields' record is on coaching hires?

Off the top of my head:

Men's Basketball: Fired Durham, hired Huse, fired Huse, hired Fish.

Women's Volleyball: Forced out Gantt, hired Malauulu, Fired Malauulu, (declined to hire Gantt again), hired Weindel, fired Weindel, hired Riley (?) (did I miss someone in there?)

Football: Fired Kramer (hired by Lindemann), hired Ash, fired Ash

So... 5/7 coaches he's fired were people he hired. I wish I could be that terrible and keep my job!

:shock:

Fire 'em Fields.
You left off he hired Binford, gave her a raise and she's a .500 coach
And the team is looking really good so far this season -- good thing we didn't fire her!



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Re: Fields

Post by John K » Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:55 pm

SonomaCat wrote:
CatRowdy wrote:
AlphaOAlum wrote:Duplicate post:
I'm wondering what Fields' record is on coaching hires?

Off the top of my head:

Men's Basketball: Fired Durham, hired Huse, fired Huse, hired Fish.

Women's Volleyball: Forced out Gantt, hired Malauulu, Fired Malauulu, (declined to hire Gantt again), hired Weindel, fired Weindel, hired Riley (?) (did I miss someone in there?)

Football: Fired Kramer (hired by Lindemann), hired Ash, fired Ash

So... 5/7 coaches he's fired were people he hired. I wish I could be that terrible and keep my job!

:shock:

Fire 'em Fields.
You left off he hired Binford, gave her a raise and she's a .500 coach
And the team is looking really good so far this season -- good thing we didn't fire her!
There's a long ways to go. Don't get me wrong...I'm cautiously optimistic, but both our men's and women's teams have well documented histories of folding late in the season. Although the women's team actually did finish pretty strong last year, so who knows.



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Re: Fields

Post by aucat » Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:01 pm

If you come out and take a look at the Lady Cats this year you may change your mind on Coach Binford, especially when you
consider the absolute train wreck she inherited given the bad history. Yes, I've been frustrated with Binford's record but I
think she has gotten over the hump.

I think Fish will be good.

I think Ash was a good hire and did a very fine job, but the recent trend was obviously very bad.

My biggest complaint with Fields is he took too long on Huse



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Re: Fields

Post by AlphaOAlum » Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:11 pm

Hey! Quit going off-topic! Take that basketball talk elsewhere :wink:



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Re: Fields

Post by utucats » Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:24 pm

AlphaOAlum wrote:How much has MSU spent in the last decade buying out contracts for the fired coaches?

Does MSU use a consulting firm to vet coaching candidates? How much has MSU spent on that?
I'm sure they've spent plenty but to clarify Fields actually did a good job on this one. Although the extension was 3 years since Ash's tenure has ended WE ONLY HAVE TO PAY OUT THIS CURRENT YEAR.

I know bashing Fields is a popular thing to do amongst Cat fans and I have been as vocal as anyone about him but in this situation I have to give him credit for structuring the contract the way he did and for having the balls to cut Ash loose.

This needed to happen and I think next season it is going to be obvious from the start that we were capable of much more this year.


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Re: Fields

Post by John K » Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:23 pm

aucat wrote:If you come out and take a look at the Lady Cats this year you may change your mind on Coach Binford, especially when you
consider the absolute train wreck she inherited given the bad history. Yes, I've been frustrated with Binford's record but I
think she has gotten over the hump.

I think Fish will be good.

I think Ash was a good hire and did a very fine job, but the recent trend was obviously very bad.

My biggest complaint with Fields is he took too long on Huse
That's ultimately what makes me feel like the decision that was made today was the correct one. If Fields and Cruzado felt like the last 2-1/2 years were not just an aberration, but truly an indication that things were trending downward, then it's better to pull the trigger sooner rather than later, before things go any further south. I think Fields maybe learned his lesson with Huse. I'm sure he wishes he would have cut him loose a couple years earlier, before things really hit rock bottom, and I think he was determined to be more proactive with this situation. Although I can't help but wonder how much input Cruzado may have had on this decision? You don't want to wait until attendance starts dwindling, and financial contributions start drying up.



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Re: Fields

Post by SonomaCat » Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:30 pm

John K wrote:Although I can't help but wonder how much input Cruzado may have had on this decision?
To be fair, and speaking from a position of having no clue (similar to everyone else that posts here), the same question can be applied to the decision to keep Huse as long as they did. There's this assumption among many people that anything positive that happens should be credited to Cruzado in retrospect and anything negative that happens should be pinned on Fields in retrospect. She can do no wrong and he can do no right. Maybe that's a true reality (although she would have fired him if that was the case ... because she can do no wrong), or maybe a lot of people just like to make assumptions that play into what they want to believe.



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Re: Fields

Post by John K » Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:41 pm

SonomaCat wrote:
John K wrote:Although I can't help but wonder how much input Cruzado may have had on this decision?
To be fair, and speaking from a position of having no clue (similar to everyone else that posts here), the same question can be applied to the decision to keep Huse as long as they did. There's this assumption among many people that anything positive that happens should be credited to Cruzado in retrospect and anything negative that happens should be pinned on Fields in retrospect. She can do no wrong and he can do no right. Maybe that's a true reality (although she would have fired him if that was the case ... because she can do no wrong), or maybe a lot of people just like to make assumptions that play into what they want to believe.
Fair enough. Just to be clear, I wasn't necessarily implying that Cruzado forced Fields' hand in this decision, just sort of "thinking out loud". The conventional wisdom has always been that Fields was a huge Ash supporter, but I don't believe that's necessarily the case. In fact, I heard from a fairly reliable source (a close family member of a recent former player) that wasn't true at all. You're right though...none of us really know the inner workings of the athletic department and administration.



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Re: Fields

Post by bpcats20 » Mon Nov 23, 2015 5:57 pm

He is an idiot, bar none. Fire the head coach who had the longest string of consecutive winning seasons in the Big Sky after one year where everything went wrong. His assistant coaches like Beck were able to develop Buch Buchannon award winners...gone. Highest scoring offense in the Big Sky ...gone.

We have got to be the laughing stock of the FCS.



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Re: Fields

Post by SonomaCat » Mon Nov 23, 2015 6:02 pm

bpcats20 wrote:He is an idiot, bar none. Fire the head coach who had the longest string of consecutive winning seasons in the Big Sky after one year where everything went wrong.
This post is going to create some hard choices for a lot of people. They will disagree with your argument because they wanted Ash to be fired (and they also probably won't be swayed by arguments about how good the defensive coaches were over the last couple years), but they will also want to agree with your first sentence because they don't like Fields. :wink:



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Re: Fields

Post by Walk-on » Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:52 pm

John K wrote:
CARDIAC_CATS wrote:
imacat wrote:
GoldstoneCat wrote:Peter Fields just put himself on the clock. I'm not arguing with his right to make the change, although I wouldn't have done it without giving Coach Ash and this staff one more crack to turn it around. But if our program doesn't have 32-34 wins, at least a win over the grizzlies, and a couple playoff berths in the next 4 seasons, then Fields and whomever he chooses to hire need to be fired at that time. Otherwise, you have no credibility as an athletic department, because that's the performance you just fired the winningest coach in school history for. 31-18, a win in Missoula, and 2 playoff appearances the last 4 seasons. There's your benchmark, Peter, so you better be sure on this one.
+1
+1000
That is exactly the way I felt when Kramer was fired. I've made no secret of the fact that I was a Kramer supporter, but when I first heard that he was out, my initial reaction was not to be upset about his firing...it was "Fields...you damn well better make a good hire". I was really concerned that all the momentum that we'd built up during Kramer's tenure could very easily be undone, if we hired the wrong guy. But that didn't happen. Fields did make a good hire, and I believe he can do it again. In fact, we should have even more interest in the job this time around, simply because we're making this change at the traditional time of year, rather than May/June like last time. I don't necessarily agree that we've already got someone in mind, although I wouldn't be surprised if Cramsey has been encouraged to apply for the job. I know that 10-14 days is a pretty ambitious timeline, but I think we'd be doing ourselves a major disservice to not do full due diligence, in terms of seeing who all might be interested in the job.
+1 from me.
I'll add that I don't dislike Coach Ash and I'm grateful for his tenure. But I don't think Coach Ash quite gets it. He had plenty of time and possessed the tools to win, but I think he failed in hiring someone that could improve the defense. 3 years of plummeting. He made a lot of crazy calls during the games attempting to compensate for something he should have fixed during the offseason. His loyalty is understood, but unacceptable if the program is to improve and succeed. Much like the problems around Kramer, the situation forced Fields' hand. It is a thankless job and I'd bet he is sick about this. It's got to be pretty lonely for him. I support his decision, again. Maybe some of us (including me) would have preferred some sugar-coating, a softer blow, or even another chance, but Fields' took a necessary initiative. I'm confident he will pick another winner.
Man, I can't help but wonder what was discussed in his conversation with Coach. Was it about defensive changes?


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Re: Fields

Post by Counter Assault » Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:02 am

Newsflash. Fields did it to save his own job. It does not take a genius to figure out that is a key component of this decision.



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Re: Fields

Post by catsfan_769273 » Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:11 am

GoldstoneCat wrote:Peter Fields just put himself on the clock. I'm not arguing with his right to make the change, although I wouldn't have done it without giving Coach Ash and this staff one more crack to turn it around. But if our program doesn't have 32-34 wins, at least a win over the grizzlies, and a couple playoff berths in the next 4 seasons, then Fields and whomever he chooses to hire need to be fired at that time. Otherwise, you have no credibility as an athletic department, because that's the performance you just fired the winningest coach in school history for. 31-18, a win in Missoula, and 2 playoff appearances the last 4 seasons. There's your benchmark, Peter, so you better be sure on this one.
Why wait put ash in as interim ad and get rid of fields.



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Re: Fields

Post by TrueCat » Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:24 am

I guess I do not understand why some are so quick to slide Ash in as AD. He is a bright, well-spoken guy, but that does not necessarily mean he is suited to run the Athletic Department.



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Re: Fields

Post by lutecat » Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:31 am

AlphaOAlum wrote:How much has MSU spent in the last decade buying out contracts for the fired coaches?

Does MSU use a consulting firm to vet coaching candidates? How much has MSU spent on that?
What were your thoughts on the Kramer hire? Do you think he was not vetted enought? 8) I kid. I kid. The answer to your question would be interesting.



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Re: Fields

Post by AlphaOAlum » Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:44 am

lutecat wrote:
AlphaOAlum wrote:How much has MSU spent in the last decade buying out contracts for the fired coaches?

Does MSU use a consulting firm to vet coaching candidates? How much has MSU spent on that?
What were your thoughts on the Kramer hire? Do you think he was not vetted enought? 8) I kid. I kid. The answer to your question would be interesting.
I edited this out because you know what, I probably don't need to stir the pot.

My question about the consulting firm and funding invested in vetting candidates comes from where I worked in Bozeman. The organization averaged a $50k consulting bill every time they hired a new department director. Over the last 5 years they've spent somewhere in the vicinity of $300k+ of the public's money recruiting and hiring people. Maybe my vision is too small potatoes, but that's Real Money in my mind.
Last edited by AlphaOAlum on Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: Fields

Post by 91catAlum » Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:44 am

TrueCat wrote:I guess I do not understand why some are so quick to slide Ash in as AD. He is a bright, well-spoken guy, but that does not necessarily mean he is suited to run the Athletic Department.
Not to mention, he's already stated that he has no desire to be an AD.
He did it for a while on an interim basis and did not like it. He likes coaching.


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Re: Fields

Post by AlphaOAlum » Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:45 am

91catAlum wrote:
TrueCat wrote:I guess I do not understand why some are so quick to slide Ash in as AD. He is a bright, well-spoken guy, but that does not necessarily mean he is suited to run the Athletic Department.
Not to mention, he's already stated that he has no desire to be an AD.
He did it for a while on an interim basis and did not like it. He likes coaching.
I didn't know this. If he wants to keep coaching, I hope he finds a position. Look at Erikson and Spurrier. Some people just can't quit.



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Re: Fields

Post by grizpack » Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:55 am

I think MSU should have fired Fields a long time ago. Even from a Griz perspective, the guy is in way over his head.

Question for the people who want Ash in as AD. He seems like a very nice guy, and is obviously very loyal to guys like Marshall. Do you think he would have problems firing someone like Marshall if he hired them as a head coach? Just curious.



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