Get out your checkbooks

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PapaG
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Re: Get out your checkbooks

Post by PapaG » Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:45 pm

grizzh8r wrote:
PapaG wrote:
Darth Yoda wrote:A new stadium is very realistic for NDSU. The Big 10 is achievable. It will take time and money, both of which they have.
I just don't see how a public university of 14k students that is located in a town of 113k would ever be invited to the Big 10 no matter how much money ND was getting from oil before prices dropped earlier this summer. Maybe I'm wrong, though. I have no clue what the Big 10 would get out of inviting NDSU. Hell, maybe MSU can join the Big 10 with enough money. It's just as plausible to me.

As far as NDSU being the "second" Minnesota school, why would the Gophers want to add a local geographic rival that they would have to recruit against for Big 10-level athletes?
Not to mention the fact that they would have to try to win football games when playing NDSU, something Minnesota hasn't done in a while...

Just sayin'...
It's a little different when you go from playing one average FBS team a year to only playing one FCS game a year. Ask Utah...


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Re: Get out your checkbooks

Post by PapaG » Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:50 pm

For comparison's sake, Ohio State has NCAA 17 women's sports, 16 men's sports, 3 co-Ed, and 1076 student-athletes on some sort of athletic scholarship. All of these are fully-funded by donors, and the AD operates with a net of $35m in the AD on an annual basis.


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Re: Get out your checkbooks

Post by Cat Grad » Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:53 pm

PapaG wrote:
Darth Yoda wrote:A new stadium is very realistic for NDSU. The Big 10 is achievable. It will take time and money, both of which they have.
I just don't see how a public university of 14k students that is located in a town of 113k would ever be invited to the Big 10 no matter how much money ND was getting from oil before prices dropped earlier this summer. Maybe I'm wrong, though. I have no clue what the Big 10 would get out of inviting NDSU. Hell, maybe MSU can join the Big 10 with enough money. It's just as plausible to me.

As far as NDSU being the "second" Minnesota school, why would the Gophers want to add a local geographic rival that they would have to recruit against for Big 10-level athletes?
Then Georgia Tech better leave the ACC. Unless the Georgia Board of Regents has bumped their ceiling, they are limited to 10k undergrads per year. Hell, right next to their campus, Georgia State with their 30k or higher should leave the Sun Belt and take their place in the ACC...



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Re: Get out your checkbooks

Post by onceacat » Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:56 pm

grizzh8r wrote:
PapaG wrote:
Darth Yoda wrote:A new stadium is very realistic for NDSU. The Big 10 is achievable. It will take time and money, both of which they have.
I just don't see how a public university of 14k students that is located in a town of 113k would ever be invited to the Big 10 no matter how much money ND was getting from oil before prices dropped earlier this summer. Maybe I'm wrong, though. I have no clue what the Big 10 would get out of inviting NDSU. Hell, maybe MSU can join the Big 10 with enough money. It's just as plausible to me.

As far as NDSU being the "second" Minnesota school, why would the Gophers want to add a local geographic rival that they would have to recruit against for Big 10-level athletes?
Not to mention the fact that they would have to try to win football games when playing NDSU, something Minnesota hasn't done in a while...

Just sayin'...
Invites to the Power 5 conferences are based on $$$$$$. Which means TV contracts. And the Fargo/Moorhead TV market is minuscule. Hence, the conference doesn't gain anything by letting NDSU in. Something else to consider. The smallest stadium in the BIG 10 houses 47K...Hell spring scrimmages draw over 60k at 3 or 4 different schools. If NDSU were to build a new 50,000 seat stadium, I'd bet dollars to dimes that opposing fans would outnumber Bison fans in at least 3 games every year (MSU, UM, OSU, probably PSU).

Add that to the fact that the oil patch is done for the time being, until prices rise again. Guys are moving back to Bozeman en masse now that drilling has pretty much dried up. The number of rigs has dropped in operation has dropped by half since January, and almost a third since the peak in 2012. Plus, Bakken wells run dry really quickly compared to other oil deposits. The state of ND is looking at a drop in tax revenues of $870B in the next biennium. (For reference, Montana's entire state budget for the next 2 years is $4B).

NDSU has neither the money nor the population to even consider joining the Big 10.



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Re: Get out your checkbooks

Post by PapaG » Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:01 pm

Cat Grad wrote:
Cat Grad wrote:
PapaG wrote:
Cat Grad wrote:
PapaG wrote:
SonomaCat wrote:I think this is the strongest "tell" yet that NDSU isn't long for the FCS. They will be moving up in the next few years, and they want to hit the ground running when they do.

I still think there's a chance they become a Big 10 team eventually -- they would essentially be the second Minnesota school in the conference.
I just can't see the Big 10 as being a realistic option. The academic profile for NDSU is not in line with the other members, its endowment is a fraction of a Michigan or tOSU, and Fargo adds nothing in terms of adding eyeballs for the Big 10 Network. MWC, on the other hand, would be a solid fit, based on the profiles of the member schools in the conference.
The number two oil producing state in the country sitting on how many years worth of reserves? Having watched programs like Miami under the leadership of somebody like Butte's own Sam Jankovich rise from a pedestrian school lucky to win a half a dozen games a year, I don't think Mr. Sonoma is making too large a leap, although I'd think they would be a better fit in the Big 12. Off the top of my head, I believe the hockey budget in the other school of note in that state is larger than any other school in our conference for their entire athletic budget per year. They may not have the resources of Phil Knight University yet, but they are fairly well off and they've got great leadership.
I do think it's a big leap. NDSU offers nothing of value academically or market-wise to the Big 10's other schools. There was resistance to add Rutgers and the NYC market, yet Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State are going to want to share TV and bowl money with a team from Fargo? That's not reality.

Miami has more than a few advantages in getting high-level players over NDSU, and Miami had to slum it as an independent, and then in the Big East, for a few decades before joining the ACC. Comparing Miami to NDSU makes no sense to me.

I understand you like to argue and you're that one voice who is always in the background shouting: "It can't be done!" Just ten, 15 or 20 years ago it seems Phil Knight University couldn't win a damn game at anything. As far as the immediate population, one ought to consider the recruiting base of that school and look across the state border also. Stillwater, OK is smaller and more isolated and if you want to consider population as a negative, then hell, the minds that rejected them into the Big Sky are super intelligent--look at those huge ass Portland, Sacramento and Northridge packed stadiums and gyms...
Oklahoma State has been in the Big 8/12 for decades. Lucky for them, they were always a package deal with OU anyhow. Plus, Texas is a border state for recruiting. I'm not sure how me disagreeing with you means I like to argue. If you don't find my reasoning valid, please address the point, and don't chalk it up to me being argumentative. Thus far, the only reasoning for NDSU being in the Big 10 is because the state has oil money. Is that it?


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Re: Get out your checkbooks

Post by PapaG » Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:07 pm

Cat Grad wrote:
Cat Grad wrote:
PapaG wrote:
Cat Grad wrote:
PapaG wrote:
SonomaCat wrote:I think this is the strongest "tell" yet that NDSU isn't long for the FCS. They will be moving up in the next few years, and they want to hit the ground running when they do.

I still think there's a chance they become a Big 10 team eventually -- they would essentially be the second Minnesota school in the conference.
I just can't see the Big 10 as being a realistic option. The academic profile for NDSU is not in line with the other members, its endowment is a fraction of a Michigan or tOSU, and Fargo adds nothing in terms of adding eyeballs for the Big 10 Network. MWC, on the other hand, would be a solid fit, based on the profiles of the member schools in the conference.
The number two oil producing state in the country sitting on how many years worth of reserves? Having watched programs like Miami under the leadership of somebody like Butte's own Sam Jankovich rise from a pedestrian school lucky to win a half a dozen games a year, I don't think Mr. Sonoma is making too large a leap, although I'd think they would be a better fit in the Big 12. Off the top of my head, I believe the hockey budget in the other school of note in that state is larger than any other school in our conference for their entire athletic budget per year. They may not have the resources of Phil Knight University yet, but they are fairly well off and they've got great leadership.
I do think it's a big leap. NDSU offers nothing of value academically or market-wise to the Big 10's other schools. There was resistance to add Rutgers and the NYC market, yet Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State are going to want to share TV and bowl money with a team from Fargo? That's not reality.

Miami has more than a few advantages in getting high-level players over NDSU, and Miami had to slum it as an independent, and then in the Big East, for a few decades before joining the ACC. Comparing Miami to NDSU makes no sense to me.

I understand you like to argue and you're that one voice who is always in the background shouting: "It can't be done!" Just ten, 15 or 20 years ago it seems Phil Knight University couldn't win a damn game at anything. As far as the immediate population, one ought to consider the recruiting base of that school and look across the state border also. Stillwater, OK is smaller and more isolated and if you want to consider population as a negative, then hell, the minds that rejected them into the Big Sky are super intelligent--look at those huge ass Portland, Sacramento and Northridge packed stadiums and gyms...
Portland State is the 3rd school in the Portland market. Sacramento is full of workers from the LA and Bay Area schools. Northridge is full of USC and UCLA grads. The Fargo TV market is an afterthought. I'll guess if you ask people in Columbus, OH, what they think of when they hear the word "Fargo," the top answer would be a movie where a man is put into a wood chipper.


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Re: Get out your checkbooks

Post by PapaG » Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:11 pm

Cat Grad wrote:
PapaG wrote:
Darth Yoda wrote:A new stadium is very realistic for NDSU. The Big 10 is achievable. It will take time and money, both of which they have.
I just don't see how a public university of 14k students that is located in a town of 113k would ever be invited to the Big 10 no matter how much money ND was getting from oil before prices dropped earlier this summer. Maybe I'm wrong, though. I have no clue what the Big 10 would get out of inviting NDSU. Hell, maybe MSU can join the Big 10 with enough money. It's just as plausible to me.

As far as NDSU being the "second" Minnesota school, why would the Gophers want to add a local geographic rival that they would have to recruit against for Big 10-level athletes?
Then Georgia Tech better leave the ACC. Unless the Georgia Board of Regents has bumped their ceiling, they are limited to 10k undergrads per year. Hell, right next to their campus, Georgia State with their 30k or higher should leave the Sun Belt and take their place in the ACC...
GA Tech has over 14k undergrads, and over 23k in total students. Plus the Atlanta TV market. Another odd comparison.

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Re: Get out your checkbooks

Post by grizzh8r » Fri Aug 28, 2015 7:14 am

PapaG wrote:
grizzh8r wrote:
PapaG wrote:
Darth Yoda wrote:A new stadium is very realistic for NDSU. The Big 10 is achievable. It will take time and money, both of which they have.
I just don't see how a public university of 14k students that is located in a town of 113k would ever be invited to the Big 10 no matter how much money ND was getting from oil before prices dropped earlier this summer. Maybe I'm wrong, though. I have no clue what the Big 10 would get out of inviting NDSU. Hell, maybe MSU can join the Big 10 with enough money. It's just as plausible to me.

As far as NDSU being the "second" Minnesota school, why would the Gophers want to add a local geographic rival that they would have to recruit against for Big 10-level athletes?
Not to mention the fact that they would have to try to win football games when playing NDSU, something Minnesota hasn't done in a while...

Just sayin'...
It's a little different when you go from playing one average FBS team a year to only playing one FCS game a year. Ask Utah...
I was simply trying to make a funny - only you could go get all serious on me...


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94VegasCat wrote:Are you for real? That is just a plain ol dumb paragraph! You just nailed every note in the Full Reetard sing-a-long choir!!!
:rofl:

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Re: Get out your checkbooks

Post by John K » Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:57 am

TomCat88 wrote:The Big Ten is the premier conference in the country when talking academic and athletic excellence. The PAC 12 is the only conference close.

I'm think NDSU is setting itself up for a move when the Power 5 break free. NDSU would rise to the top of the mid-majors quickly. Perhaps after a decade or so of growth there they would be in line for a move to a Power 5.

North Dakota is very small population-wise and is probably very tough to draw out of state students to.
I agree with you Tom, to some extent. I can see NDSU following a similar trajectory to that of BSU, beginning 20 years ago when they left the BSC. But it took BSU a full 10 years just to rise to the top of the mid-majors. and now another 10 years after that, they still don't seem to be anywhere close to joining a Power 5 conference. And BSU/Boise has a much larger population, and much more of a corporate presence (i.e. large financial donors) than does NDSU/Fargo. I know there's a lot of oil money in ND, but that picture may also look very different in a few years, if the price of crude continues to fall. I think it's completely unrealistic to think that NDSU will ever get into the Big 10.



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Re: Get out your checkbooks

Post by grizzh8r » Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:28 pm

John K wrote:
TomCat88 wrote:The Big Ten is the premier conference in the country when talking academic and athletic excellence. The PAC 12 is the only conference close.

I'm think NDSU is setting itself up for a move when the Power 5 break free. NDSU would rise to the top of the mid-majors quickly. Perhaps after a decade or so of growth there they would be in line for a move to a Power 5.

North Dakota is very small population-wise and is probably very tough to draw out of state students to.
I agree with you Tom, to some extent. I can see NDSU following a similar trajectory to that of BSU, beginning 20 years ago when they left the BSC. But it took BSU a full 10 years just to rise to the top of the mid-majors. and now another 10 years after that, they still don't seem to be anywhere close to joining a Power 5 conference. And BSU/Boise has a much larger population, and much more of a corporate presence (i.e. large financial donors) than does NDSU/Fargo. I know there's a lot of oil money in ND, but that picture may also look very different in a few years, if the price of crude continues to fall. I think it's completely unrealistic to think that NDSU will ever get into the Big 10.
The price of crude is manipulated by governments, Big Oil and OPEC. You just watch; sometime in the next year, we'll be paying $4-5 a gallon again...


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94VegasCat wrote:Are you for real? That is just a plain ol dumb paragraph! You just nailed every note in the Full Reetard sing-a-long choir!!!
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Re: Get out your checkbooks

Post by LongTimeCatFan » Fri Aug 28, 2015 11:50 pm

grizzh8r wrote:
John K wrote:
TomCat88 wrote:The Big Ten is the premier conference in the country when talking academic and athletic excellence. The PAC 12 is the only conference close.

I'm think NDSU is setting itself up for a move when the Power 5 break free. NDSU would rise to the top of the mid-majors quickly. Perhaps after a decade or so of growth there they would be in line for a move to a Power 5.

North Dakota is very small population-wise and is probably very tough to draw out of state students to.
I agree with you Tom, to some extent. I can see NDSU following a similar trajectory to that of BSU, beginning 20 years ago when they left the BSC. But it took BSU a full 10 years just to rise to the top of the mid-majors. and now another 10 years after that, they still don't seem to be anywhere close to joining a Power 5 conference. And BSU/Boise has a much larger population, and much more of a corporate presence (i.e. large financial donors) than does NDSU/Fargo. I know there's a lot of oil money in ND, but that picture may also look very different in a few years, if the price of crude continues to fall. I think it's completely unrealistic to think that NDSU will ever get into the Big 10.
The price of crude is manipulated by governments, Big Oil and OPEC. You just watch; sometime in the next year, we'll be paying $4-5 a gallon again...
After the election.



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Re: Get out your checkbooks

Post by John K » Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:14 am

grizzh8r wrote:
John K wrote:
TomCat88 wrote:The Big Ten is the premier conference in the country when talking academic and athletic excellence. The PAC 12 is the only conference close.

I'm think NDSU is setting itself up for a move when the Power 5 break free. NDSU would rise to the top of the mid-majors quickly. Perhaps after a decade or so of growth there they would be in line for a move to a Power 5.

North Dakota is very small population-wise and is probably very tough to draw out of state students to.
I agree with you Tom, to some extent. I can see NDSU following a similar trajectory to that of BSU, beginning 20 years ago when they left the BSC. But it took BSU a full 10 years just to rise to the top of the mid-majors. and now another 10 years after that, they still don't seem to be anywhere close to joining a Power 5 conference. And BSU/Boise has a much larger population, and much more of a corporate presence (i.e. large financial donors) than does NDSU/Fargo. I know there's a lot of oil money in ND, but that picture may also look very different in a few years, if the price of crude continues to fall. I think it's completely unrealistic to think that NDSU will ever get into the Big 10.
The price of crude is manipulated by governments, Big Oil and OPEC. You just watch; sometime in the next year, we'll be paying $4-5 a gallon again...
I'm not saying that there's no manipulation, but the price of crude is determined mostly by market forces. Right now the USA is producing more oil than it's consuming, so it shouldn't be any big surprise that the price is going down. My first job out of college was in the oil industry, and the situation back then (in the 80's) was very similar to the current situation. When I first entered the business, the oil industry was booming in MT and ND, just like the recent boom, and everyone thought it would last forever. But when things changed, they changed very suddenly and very dramatically, and the oil industry stayed down for 25 years before it turned around in the other direction again. No industry is as "boom and bust" as the oil industry...it's always been like that, and probably always will be like that. Anyone who is pinning NDSU's hopes for eventually hitting the "big time" (i.e. joining the Big 10) on the financial bonanza from the oil boom continuing ad infinitum, is making a very big mistake.



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Re: Get out your checkbooks

Post by onceacat » Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:26 am

John K wrote:
grizzh8r wrote:
John K wrote:
TomCat88 wrote:The Big Ten is the premier conference in the country when talking academic and athletic excellence. The PAC 12 is the only conference close.

I'm think NDSU is setting itself up for a move when the Power 5 break free. NDSU would rise to the top of the mid-majors quickly. Perhaps after a decade or so of growth there they would be in line for a move to a Power 5.

North Dakota is very small population-wise and is probably very tough to draw out of state students to.
I agree with you Tom, to some extent. I can see NDSU following a similar trajectory to that of BSU, beginning 20 years ago when they left the BSC. But it took BSU a full 10 years just to rise to the top of the mid-majors. and now another 10 years after that, they still don't seem to be anywhere close to joining a Power 5 conference. And BSU/Boise has a much larger population, and much more of a corporate presence (i.e. large financial donors) than does NDSU/Fargo. I know there's a lot of oil money in ND, but that picture may also look very different in a few years, if the price of crude continues to fall. I think it's completely unrealistic to think that NDSU will ever get into the Big 10.
The price of crude is manipulated by governments, Big Oil and OPEC. You just watch; sometime in the next year, we'll be paying $4-5 a gallon again...
I'm not saying that there's no manipulation, but the price of crude is determined mostly by market forces. Right now the USA is producing more oil than it's consuming, so it shouldn't be any big surprise that the price is going down. My first job out of college was in the oil industry, and the situation back then (in the 80's) was very similar to the current situation. When I first entered the business, the oil industry was booming in MT and ND, just like the recent boom, and everyone thought it would last forever. But when things changed, they changed very suddenly and very dramatically, and the oil industry stayed down for 25 years before it turned around in the other direction again. No industry is as "boom and bust" as the oil industry...it's always been like that, and probably always will be like that. Anyone who is pinning NDSU's hopes for eventually hitting the "big time" (i.e. joining the Big 10) on the financial bonanza from the oil boom continuing ad infinitum, is making a very big mistake.
Pretty much everyone in the American oil industry would prefer to see $100/barrel oil again. Saudi Arabia is undercutting the entire market in order to undermine tight oil producers in the US & Canada (and offshore). The North Dakota state government is an unfortunate bystander. But regardless of the conspiracy theories that have popped up in this thread, NDSU has neither the academic pedigree, the money, nor the population to support a Big 12 team. The MAC is probably the ceiling for the Bison.



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Re: Get out your checkbooks

Post by tagleason » Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:02 pm

Where do the guys who speak Russian and have all the oil fall into this conversation?



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Re: Get out your checkbooks

Post by TomCat88 » Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:59 pm

I probably need to start a new thread for this as this one is kinda sidetracked, but did anyone else receive that letter from the alumni association breaking down the effect of the end zone renovation. It oozed of funding drive. I didn't think for second that it was for anything else as I read it. So, yes, get the check books out.


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Re: Get out your checkbooks

Post by coachouert » Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:17 pm

TomCat88 wrote:I probably need to start a new thread for this as this one is kinda sidetracked, but did anyone else receive that letter from the alumni association breaking down the effect of the end zone renovation. It oozed of funding drive. I didn't think for second that it was for anything else as I read it. So, yes, get the check books out.
Yep, I also got it and thought the same thing. The Foundation is gearing up to kick off a massive campaign for MSU. I think they're unveiling it at the Gold Rush game.


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Re: Get out your checkbooks

Post by TomCat88 » Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:26 pm

coachouert wrote:
TomCat88 wrote:I probably need to start a new thread for this as this one is kinda sidetracked, but did anyone else receive that letter from the alumni association breaking down the effect of the end zone renovation. It oozed of funding drive. I didn't think for second that it was for anything else as I read it. So, yes, get the check books out.
Yep, I also got it and thought the same thing. The Foundation is gearing up to kick off a massive campaign for MSU. I think they're unveiling it at the Gold Rush game.
Don't tell me that. I was just about to fall asleep. 8-[


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Re: Get out your checkbooks

Post by coachouert » Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:44 pm

TomCat88 wrote:
coachouert wrote:
TomCat88 wrote:I probably need to start a new thread for this as this one is kinda sidetracked, but did anyone else receive that letter from the alumni association breaking down the effect of the end zone renovation. It oozed of funding drive. I didn't think for second that it was for anything else as I read it. So, yes, get the check books out.
Yep, I also got it and thought the same thing. The Foundation is gearing up to kick off a massive campaign for MSU. I think they're unveiling it at the Gold Rush game.
Don't tell me that. I was just about to fall asleep. 8-[
If it helps, the campaign I know of is for the overall university, not athletics. I should have said that earlier. My bad.


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Re: Get out your checkbooks

Post by TomCat88 » Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:22 pm

coachouert wrote:
TomCat88 wrote:
coachouert wrote:
TomCat88 wrote:I probably need to start a new thread for this as this one is kinda sidetracked, but did anyone else receive that letter from the alumni association breaking down the effect of the end zone renovation. It oozed of funding drive. I didn't think for second that it was for anything else as I read it. So, yes, get the check books out.
Yep, I also got it and thought the same thing. The Foundation is gearing up to kick off a massive campaign for MSU. I think they're unveiling it at the Gold Rush game.
Don't tell me that. I was just about to fall asleep. 8-[
If it helps, the campaign I know of is for the overall university, not athletics. I should have said that earlier. My bad.
You're not telling me someone, say President Cruzado, is going to waltz out to midfield before the game and ask everyone to join in on a fundraiser that DOES NOT include the stadium. Hopefully 'overall' includes athletics, especially the stadium. Academics just got $50 and $25 million single donor donations, while the stadium only got $6-7 million spread over hundreds of donors over 5 years. Not that I'm not happy for the academic side and I realize it's of more importance, but c'mon.


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Re: Get out your checkbooks

Post by 77matcat » Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:47 pm

Agree


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