MSU cannot tackle

[Hawks86]

I'm pretty sure they use that tech. in some of their drills.

[youtube][/youtube]

about 20 sec. in.

[catatac]

The OP saying fundamentals are important is fair, although I'm more than happy to gobble up stats, injury reports, and scrum information. I strongly encourage our armada of reporters to continue. As could have been easily anticipated, this thread is a strong breeding ground for hyperbole and sweeping generalizations. I'm inclined to wait and see how these guys come together in the next couple weeks. I remain optimistic about our D.

Exactly where I'm at with it, great post. I'm going to sit back and see how it plays out. Personally I do believe we have all the right pieces to be a solid defense and restore that tough hard nosed defense that Bobcat Football has always been known for. It might take a few games but I think it will happen. I'm certainly not going to judge the overall quality of this brand new defense after a couple scrimmages against one of the most potent offenses in the FCS.

[CatBlitz]

Wasn't it Tom that posted about fumbling being a deep rooted, fundamental problem? That issue was "fixed" almost immediately after that thread was posted. Maybe he's onto something...

[VimSince03]

Let's just keep in mind there are teams in the NFL who struggle to tackle. Usually the most physical defenses (Seahawks, 49ers, etc.) are the best tacklers. Singleton was a great linebacker but he left his feet a lot trying to make the big play and it didn't always result in a loss (many times it did). I think we all remember the Forte run during the Eastern game last year where Alex had him dead to rights in the backfield and Forte took it to the house. Sometimes Alex would let his passion get the best of him and it led to missed tackles because he was playing out of control with his technique trying to make the big play. Being physical and in control of your technique is the overall goal. Patrick Willis and Navarro Bowman are great examples in the NFL of having great technique and still being very physical. You then flash forward to the Cal Poly game where Alex was a frickin rock and met the fullback in the hole with authority every time.

I guess what I'm getting at is I hope that we don't become one of those defenses with a new scheme that plays with a lot of passion (swag as the kids call it) but it sometimes leads to out-of-control play and poor technique which leads to missed tackles all over the field. I'll take a stop for 2 yards because the player broke down and made a tackle over a missed tackle in the backfield leading to a big play.

[Hawks86]

If we are going to be an average to bad, potentially adequate defense. I'd rather it be fun to watch.

[CelticCat]

Let's just keep in mind there are teams in the NFL who struggle to tackle. Usually the most physical defenses (Seahawks, 49ers, etc.) are the best tacklers. Singleton was a great linebacker but he left his feet a lot trying to make the big play and it didn't always result in a loss (many times it did). I think we all remember the Forte run during the Eastern game last year where Alex had him dead to rights in the backfield and Forte took it to the house. Sometimes Alex would let his passion get the best of him and it led to missed tackles because he was playing out of control with his technique trying to make the big play. Being physical and in control of your technique is the overall goal. Patrick Willis and Navarro Bowman are great examples in the NFL of having great technique and still being very physical. You then flash forward to the Cal Poly game where Alex was a frickin rock and met the fullback in the hole with authority every time.

I guess what I'm getting at is I hope that we don't become one of those defenses with a new scheme that plays with a lot of passion (swag as the kids call it) but it sometimes leads to out-of-control play and poor technique which leads to missed tackles all over the field. I'll take a stop for 2 yards because the player broke down and made a tackle over a missed tackle in the backfield leading to a big play.

Yes, but those types of defenses often get a lot of turnovers with their overly aggressive play. I'm at the point where I'm sick of us playing soft, bend but don't break defense. I'll take some aggressive plays that end up in whiffs if it means we always have the ability to generate some turnovers.

Rob Ash teams have overall had a slightly negative turnover ratio. I'd like to see us go a year with a + ratio.

[VimSince03]

If we are going to be an average to bad, potentially adequate defense. I'd rather it be fun to watch.

I hear what you are saying. The Sac State game last year was the biggest example of "why not start blitzing because we are getting beat anyway." But I've watched a few NDSU games over the years and their defense is actually fairly boring to watch. However, they produce turnovers, get stops, etc. mostly because they do their job nearly every play, play very physical, and rotate at every position. It almost baffles me because it just seems simple when they play defense.

Yes, but those types of defenses often get a lot of turnovers with their overly aggressive play. I'm at the point where I'm sick of us playing soft, bend but don't break defense. I'll take some aggressive plays that end up in whiffs if it means we always have the ability to generate some turnovers.

Rob Ash teams have overall had a slightly negative turnover ratio. I'd like to see us go a year with a + ratio.

You are right. We haven't been able to create turnovers over the last season and a half because of poor secondary play, lack of a pass rush, and an out-dated scheme. But you can still play in control and have a great defense. It comes down to how much Kane wants to blitz and how much of a push our defensive line can get. We can be as intense or passionate of a defense all we want but if it is out of control, we will still get picked apart by these Big Sky offenses.

My thought is that this is going to be a defense that will not regress this year but progress during the year. It will start out rough. The EWU game will be another shootout. But I will do everything in my power to stay patient with this scheme Kane is implementing because I believe it has a good shot of stopping or slowing down the offensive style of some of these Big Sky offenses.

[allcat]

If we are going to be an average to bad, potentially adequate defense. I'd rather it be fun to watch.

I hear what you are saying. The Sac State game last year was the biggest example of "why not start blitzing because we are getting beat anyway." But I've watched a few NDSU games over the years and their defense is actually fairly boring to watch. However, they produce turnovers, get stops, etc. mostly because they do their job nearly every play, play very physical, and rotate at every position. It almost baffles me because it just seems simple when they play defense.

Yes, but those types of defenses often get a lot of turnovers with their overly aggressive play. I'm at the point where I'm sick of us playing soft, bend but don't break defense. I'll take some aggressive plays that end up in whiffs if it means we always have the ability to generate some turnovers.

Rob Ash teams have overall had a slightly negative turnover ratio. I'd like to see us go a year with a + ratio.

You are right. We haven't been able to create turnovers over the last season and a half because of poor secondary play, lack of a pass rush, and an out-dated scheme. But you can still play in control and have a great defense. It comes down to how much Kane wants to blitz and how much of a push our defensive line can get. We can be as intense or passionate of a defense all we want but if it is out of control, we will still get picked apart by these Big Sky offenses.

My thought is that this is going to be a defense that will not regress this year but progress during the year. It will start out rough. The EWU game will be another shootout. But I will do everything in my power to stay patient with this scheme Kane is implementing because I believe it has a good shot of stopping or slowing down the offensive style of some of these Big Sky offenses.

I don't get the outdated part. North Dakota played a very simple defense and jumped to the best D in the conference last year.

[Go Scats Go]

Dont be so hard on the D, just because they tackle like Sleestak!!!!



Maybe the cats can call it the Sleescat Defense!!

[Walk-on]

Dont be so hard on the D, just because they tackle like Sleestak!!!!



Maybe the cats can call it the Sleescat Defense!!

I just spit coffee on my screen.

[ECat79]

Agreed. You can't just throw a shoulder into someone and expect them to go down. Got to wrap up.

[JDoub]

We can learn something from another sport

[youtube][/youtube]

[RobertCats]

i'm just hoping our D ends up kind of like SHSU's last year. They brought in all those transfers and they didn't play very well to start the season. But towards the end of the season they were a deep playoff team. The D needs time to come together and learn to trust each other. The sooner we can get the starting lineup set, so those players can all play together and become one unit, the better

This is exactly right, to not think this D is going to have growing pains is unrealistic. We have a bunch of brand new players (transfers) and an entirely different scheme, most teams struggle with just one or the other.

I for one am grateful for the early season schedule, although the fan in me wants to see tough games we basically get another scrimmage in Lewis and then another camp to get ready for EWU and conference play.....brilliant!

[bobcat92]

i'm just hoping our D ends up kind of like SHSU's last year. They brought in all those transfers and they didn't play very well to start the season. But towards the end of the season they were a deep playoff team. The D needs time to come together and learn to trust each other. The sooner we can get the starting lineup set, so those players can all play together and become one unit, the better

This is exactly right, to not think this D is going to have growing pains is unrealistic. We have a bunch of brand new players (transfers) and an entirely different scheme, most teams struggle with just one or the other.

I for one am grateful for the early season schedule, although the fan in me wants to see tough games we basically get another scrimmage in Lewis and then another camp to get ready for EWU and conference play.....brilliant!

Playing Ft Lewis will be good for the defense to actually play full speed against someone other than that one of the top offenses in the nation. I am not giving the defense a pass by any means and we will know where the Defense stands after EWU. My predications however is it will be another shoot out. If the defense can get a couple of stops we might win but I am not expecting a miracle. I think we will get better as the year goes on but we started from a low place.

[catsrback76]

i'm just hoping our D ends up kind of like SHSU's last year. They brought in all those transfers and they didn't play very well to start the season. But towards the end of the season they were a deep playoff team. The D needs time to come together and learn to trust each other. The sooner we can get the starting lineup set, so those players can all play together and become one unit, the better

This is exactly right, to not think this D is going to have growing pains is unrealistic. We have a bunch of brand new players (transfers) and an entirely different scheme, most teams struggle with just one or the other.

I for one am grateful for the early season schedule, although the fan in me wants to see tough games we basically get another scrimmage in Lewis and then another camp to get ready for EWU and conference play.....brilliant!

Playing Ft Lewis will be good for the defense to actually play full speed against someone other than that one of the top offenses in the nation. I am not giving the defense a pass by any means and we will know where the Defense stands after EWU. My predications however is it will be another shoot out. If the defense can get a couple of stops we might win but I am not expecting a miracle. I think we will get better as the year goes on but we started from a low place.

That said, with our athletes on the field, to give Ft Lewis more than 10 points ( and that might be too many) is NOT a good sign for the upcoming season. The defense needs to establish themselves and gain some confidence in themselves, the system, and the starters and it starts next week.

[onceacat]

If we are going to be an average to bad, potentially adequate defense. I'd rather it be fun to watch.

I hear what you are saying. The Sac State game last year was the biggest example of "why not start blitzing because we are getting beat anyway." But I've watched a few NDSU games over the years and their defense is actually fairly boring to watch. However, they produce turnovers, get stops, etc. mostly because they do their job nearly every play, play very physical, and rotate at every position. It almost baffles me because it just seems simple when they play defense.

Yes, but those types of defenses often get a lot of turnovers with their overly aggressive play. I'm at the point where I'm sick of us playing soft, bend but don't break defense. I'll take some aggressive plays that end up in whiffs if it means we always have the ability to generate some turnovers.

Rob Ash teams have overall had a slightly negative turnover ratio. I'd like to see us go a year with a + ratio.

You are right. We haven't been able to create turnovers over the last season and a half because of poor secondary play, lack of a pass rush, and an out-dated scheme. But you can still play in control and have a great defense. It comes down to how much Kane wants to blitz and how much of a push our defensive line can get. We can be as intense or passionate of a defense all we want but if it is out of control, we will still get picked apart by these Big Sky offenses.


My thought is that this is going to be a defense that will not regress this year but progress during the year. It will start out rough. The EWU game will be another shootout. But I will do everything in my power to stay patient with this scheme Kane is implementing because I believe it has a good shot of stopping or slowing down the offensive style of some of these Big Sky offenses.

I don't get the outdated part. North Dakota played a very simple defense and jumped to the best D in the conference last year.

UNDs D was probably the most overrated unit in the Big Sky last year. They weren't bad, but they didn't actually stop teams from scoring very well. Both ISU and EWU were better at actually stopping other teams from scoring than UND. UND inflated their defenses because 1. they spent 2/3 of the season playing against the offensive 2's. Remember how the game against MSU was over by half? 2. Their pass efficiency D was atrocious. #108 in the country-substantially worse than MSU. 3. Their passing O was even worse than their passing D. Remember how they started running out the clock with ball control 3 yards and a cloud of dust offense against MSU last year?

For crying out loud, UND gave up more points to EWU with Jordan West at QB (54) than MSU gave up to EWU with VA at the helm (52).

Best D in the conference? Not even close. Better than MSU, sure. Better than UM, ISU, or EWU-not even close.

[utucats]

Colter brought up last season that we don't work on tackling, that concerns me, and so does what we are hearing about this years group. The importance of fundamentals can not be overstated and I hope we don't spend to much time on the extras if we don't have a solid foundation.

[luckyirishguy25]

I'm just going to drop this right here...
http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/ ... h-33334254