Truth is...

The place to talk smack with those not fortunate enough to be Bobcat fans.

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Griznationalist
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Re: Truth is...

Post by Griznationalist » Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:09 am

BozoneCat wrote:
catatac wrote:I agree Bozone, he may never feel that emotional tie to the game like we all do. So let me ask this question. Would you rather win Cat Griz, or the chipper? How about Cat Griz or a first round playoff game?
No doubt, I would rather win a 1st round playoff game, and I would definitely rather win a national championship! I'm not so entrenched with hatred that I can't see the forest for the trees when it comes to beating the griz, and I hope most all Bobcat fans have grown past the mentality of "if we win Cat/griz and lose the rest of our games, it'd still be a successful season." But that said, denying the importance of winning this game does a great disservice to our team and our fans. In the grand scheme of the season from a W/L perspective, it's just one game. But it MEANS more than that. Most importantly, winning the game helps us significantly in recruiting, playoff positioning, and fundraising.


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Serious? You'd rather win a 1st-round playoff game than beat Montana? Over the past 20 seasons, while I've enjoyed a couple FCS Chippers for Montana, I've also seen Montana blow four national championship games, or go deep into the playoffs and fail to get into the chipper, or even go one-and-done in the playoffs. On the Montana side of the great divide, the only thing we'd trade for a win against the Cats is the National Chsmpionship.



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Re: Truth is...

Post by Griznationalist » Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:14 am

The only thing I'd trade for a win in Cat-Griz is the national championship. Hauck blew three chipper appearances, Glenn one, and Dennehy one. If you don't win the big one, better win Cat-Griz, or it's a bitter taste for a long time.



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Re: Truth is...

Post by Sotallytober » Sat Dec 20, 2014 3:49 am

Griznationalist wrote:On the Montana side of the great divide, the only thing we'd trade for a win against the Cats is the National Chsmpionship.
I didn't realize "Griz Nation" was so short sighted.



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Re: Truth is...

Post by catsrback76 » Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:55 am

BozoneCat wrote:
catatac wrote:I agree Bozone, he may never feel that emotional tie to the game like we all do. So let me ask this question. Would you rather win Cat Griz, or the chipper? How about Cat Griz or a first round playoff game?
No doubt, I would rather win a 1st round playoff game, and I would definitely rather win a national championship! I'm not so entrenched with hatred that I can't see the forest for the trees when it comes to beating the griz, and I hope most all Bobcat fans have grown past the mentality of "if we win Cat/griz and lose the rest of our games, it'd still be a successful season." But that said, denying the importance of winning this game does a great disservice to our team and our fans. In the grand scheme of the season from a W/L perspective, it's just one game. But it MEANS more than that. Most importantly, winning the game helps us significantly in recruiting, playoff positioning, and fundraising.


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Well said!!!



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catatac
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Re: Truth is...

Post by catatac » Sat Dec 20, 2014 9:08 am

Griznationalist wrote:
BozoneCat wrote:
catatac wrote:I agree Bozone, he may never feel that emotional tie to the game like we all do. So let me ask this question. Would you rather win Cat Griz, or the chipper? How about Cat Griz or a first round playoff game?
No doubt, I would rather win a 1st round playoff game, and I would definitely rather win a national championship! I'm not so entrenched with hatred that I can't see the forest for the trees when it comes to beating the griz, and I hope most all Bobcat fans have grown past the mentality of "if we win Cat/griz and lose the rest of our games, it'd still be a successful season." But that said, denying the importance of winning this game does a great disservice to our team and our fans. In the grand scheme of the season from a W/L perspective, it's just one game. But it MEANS more than that. Most importantly, winning the game helps us significantly in recruiting, playoff positioning, and fundraising.


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Serious? You'd rather win a 1st-round playoff game than beat Montana? Over the past 20 seasons, while I've enjoyed a couple FCS Chippers for Montana, I've also seen Montana blow four national championship games, or go deep into the playoffs and fail to get into the chipper, or even go one-and-done in the playoffs. On the Montana side of the great divide, the only thing we'd trade for a win against the Cats is the National Chsmpionship.
Yes, I'd trade a Cat Griz win for winning a first round game, because the latter gives us the possibility of winning it all, whereas the former doesn't necessarily do that.


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Re: Truth is...

Post by BozoneCat » Sat Dec 20, 2014 9:13 am

catatac wrote:
Griznationalist wrote:
BozoneCat wrote:
catatac wrote:I agree Bozone, he may never feel that emotional tie to the game like we all do. So let me ask this question. Would you rather win Cat Griz, or the chipper? How about Cat Griz or a first round playoff game?
No doubt, I would rather win a 1st round playoff game, and I would definitely rather win a national championship! I'm not so entrenched with hatred that I can't see the forest for the trees when it comes to beating the griz, and I hope most all Bobcat fans have grown past the mentality of "if we win Cat/griz and lose the rest of our games, it'd still be a successful season." But that said, denying the importance of winning this game does a great disservice to our team and our fans. In the grand scheme of the season from a W/L perspective, it's just one game. But it MEANS more than that. Most importantly, winning the game helps us significantly in recruiting, playoff positioning, and fundraising.


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Serious? You'd rather win a 1st-round playoff game than beat Montana? Over the past 20 seasons, while I've enjoyed a couple FCS Chippers for Montana, I've also seen Montana blow four national championship games, or go deep into the playoffs and fail to get into the chipper, or even go one-and-done in the playoffs. On the Montana side of the great divide, the only thing we'd trade for a win against the Cats is the National Chsmpionship.
Yes, I'd trade a Cat Griz win for winning a first round game, because the latter gives us the possibility of winning it all, whereas the former doesn't necessarily do that.
It's close between winning Cat/griz vs. winning a first round playoff game, but I agree with your reasoning 100%, and that was the exact reason I chose that way. I went back to 2007, when we lost to the griz but beat Furman in the playoffs. As bad as it felt to lose the Cat/griz game, it felt even better when we won the playoff game, so that's what I'm basing it on.


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Griznationalist
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Re: Truth is...

Post by Griznationalist » Sat Dec 20, 2014 9:58 am

BozoneCat wrote:
catatac wrote:
Griznationalist wrote:
BozoneCat wrote:
catatac wrote:I agree Bozone, he may never feel that emotional tie to the game like we all do. So let me ask this question. Would you rather win Cat Griz, or the chipper? How about Cat Griz or a first round playoff game?
No doubt, I would rather win a 1st round playoff game, and I would definitely rather win a national championship! I'm not so entrenched with hatred that I can't see the forest for the trees when it comes to beating the griz, and I hope most all Bobcat fans have grown past the mentality of "if we win Cat/griz and lose the rest of our games, it'd still be a successful season." But that said, denying the importance of winning this game does a great disservice to our team and our fans. In the grand scheme of the season from a W/L perspective, it's just one game. But it MEANS more than that. Most importantly, winning the game helps us significantly in recruiting, playoff positioning, and fundraising.


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Serious? You'd rather win a 1st-round playoff game than beat Montana? Over the past 20 seasons, while I've enjoyed a couple FCS Chippers for Montana, I've also seen Montana blow four national championship games, or go deep into the playoffs and fail to get into the chipper, or even go one-and-done in the playoffs. On the Montana side of the great divide, the only thing we'd trade for a win against the Cats is the National Chsmpionship.
Yes, I'd trade a Cat Griz win for winning a first round game, because the latter gives us the possibility of winning it all, whereas the former doesn't necessarily do that.
It's close between winning Cat/griz vs. winning a first round playoff game, but I agree with your reasoning 100%, and that was the exact reason I chose that way. I went back to 2007, when we lost to the griz but beat Furman in the playoffs. As bad as it felt to lose the Cat/griz game, it felt even better when we won the playoff game, so that's what I'm basing it on.


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Think this through. You are saying you would CHOOSE a scenario where the Cats perpetually lose to the Griz so long as the Cats end up with a first-round playoff game opportunity. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. I just find it interesting. I guess it explains why the Cats look at the Cat-Griz contest as just another game? Not criticizing -- just trying to understand.



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Re: Truth is...

Post by HelenaCat » Sat Dec 20, 2014 10:31 am

LongTimeCatFan wrote:
HelenaCat wrote:
LongTimeCatFan wrote:
Bay Area Cat wrote:
LongTimeCatFan wrote:Colter could probably go through his stuff, but I don't think it makes a difference. Nobody is denying Ash said it. It's just a known fact.
If we don't know what "it" is, then how can anyone claim that "it" was actually said? So yeah, I think having his actual quote(s) is pretty important and that relying on second and third hand characterizations of what he said from message board posts isn't the best path to knowledge.
I could be totally wrong here, but I'm pretty sure it was an exchange between Ash and Colter. My recollection was Colter said, with all of the record breaking talent in this senior class, there was an expectation of a far better finish to the season. What do you attribute to the way the season ended? Ash answered, Well, I'll probably never let another one of my players join a fraternity again.
Well, I am getting pretty old and my memory is not as good as it once was, but I am pretty darn sure I never read anything even close to that. Maybe it was in a podcast because I don't often listen to those, but I read almost everything from Colter. If it is in a podcast or an article, I would sure like to see or hear it and see the actual quote. What you wrote here in no way throws DM under the bus. That could mean lots of things. I think this whole thing is just another let's look for something to bash Ash with.
In no way? It directly blames McGhee's involvement in a fraternity for the losses of the season. There's simply no other way to read that.

Since you think it means something else, what do think it means?
I am saying I don't know exactly what it means without knowing the full context of what Ash said, if he really even said anything. But as one example, it could be that Ash had no problem with DM in a fraternity, but the other players did and it created some issues. In that scenario, Ash could have been blaming the other players for over-reacting, but given how they reacted, he would not want to have it happen again.

Again, I am not sure he even said anything at all and this may be another one of those stories that gets blown way out of proportion as it goes from second hand to third hand to ......100th hand. All I know right now through ANY discussion I have had with Ash or any time I have heard him at QBC, he has never said ONE bad thing about Denarius. On the contrary, Ash almost went overboard gushing about Denarius all 5 years he was at MSU. So this whole throwing Denarius under the bus story just really seems very unlikely to me. And I don't remember ever seeing a direct quote on paper and at least I have never heard a quote. So right now I have no reason to believe he ever said it, or at worst it has been taken badly out of context.



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Re: Truth is...

Post by CatRowdy » Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:26 am

BozoneCat wrote: It's close between winning Cat/griz vs. winning a first round playoff game, but I agree with your reasoning 100%, and that was the exact reason I chose that way. I went back to 2007, when we lost to the griz but beat Furman in the playoffs. As bad as it felt to lose the Cat/griz game, it felt even better when we won the playoff game, so that's what I'm basing it on.


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Clearly I'm in the minority of Cat posters..... I'll take the CAT/griz win based on several factors. I can remember how great it was to win the national championship in 1984; top of the world, but it only lasts 1 year. The next year we lost every game but the CAT/griz. If anything takes a bitter taste out of your mouth it's ending any season by beating the Griz!

Another factor and probably much more importantly is if we have a team that is coached to beat what is arguably our most intense game of the year (CAT/griz), we will have a team that can beat several other Big Sky teams, therefore making the playoffs and most likely getting past the 1st round. CAT/griz is ALWAYS the last game of the regular season, it usually carries Big Sky conference title implications and likely playoff implications. Let alone 12 months of state bragging rights; and I suspect recruiting possibilities. Also those fair weather fans that sway back and forth, well their money goes with them, and try as we might, we need at least some of them. We didn't sell out on season tickets this year, the ticket office went to offering three game packages. For our program to grow we need to add fans, and I think CAT/griz is a crucial factor.

Now, I respect the opinion you can't always win one certain game a season. I agree, so I'm not hanging the whole season on one game; but I believe you need to be winning the series. One year faults happen, but the trend shows a pattern. Currently under Coach Ash we are 2 and 6 against the griz. It's an eight year sample and we are at 25%. If this was one season, by most posters comments this would be a failure. So I'm not basing my thoughts on this years CAT/griz, or last years.... but on EIGHT games under Ash. Whether he gets the rivalry or not he isn't winning the series. I also believe we have had the talent so I'm not accepting it to be players fault. As Ash says, the wins and loses go behind his name, so if he needs to make changes to win games he's the one in control; he sets the tone, he hires his staff, he recruits his players and he controls the depth chart.

A winning season is accomplished by winning one game at a time, start to coach to win the most important game of the regular season and good things will follow.



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Re: Truth is...

Post by Cat Grad » Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:53 am

I want the mindset of the 60s and 70s again. It's all over the rest of the country. Very simple in that the coaches, players and fans expect the team to win each and every game they play. We have a fanbase similar to that other place in this state. "God, can we just keep it close and not get embarrassed!"

You see it every year when 1-AA schools go play the major programs. You don't hear the coaching staffs make excuses, they simply state they expected to win and a loss was a disappointment and if they win, they expected to win.

It is all through this athletic department. We had a kid place in the NCAAs and his own coach did not even try to hide his amazement. He publically expressed his surprise the kid placed and it's no wonder the kid transferred. To a bigger school.



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Re: Truth is...

Post by TomCat88 » Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:35 pm

...I just like driving down to the games in Bozeman. It usually takes me 3.5 hours to get there from Helena, which is normally a 1.5 hour drive. It's an incredible drive. I like to see the Cats win, but it isn't all that important. I get over them losing rather quickly.

When I was a kid I'd get all bent out of shape if one of my teams lost and my dad would chew me out saying, "Watching football is supposed to be a pastime, not a problem! If you're gonna act like that about it, you better find something else to do!" Very good advice. :)


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Re: Truth is...

Post by Cat Grad » Sat Dec 20, 2014 2:11 pm

TomCat88 wrote:...I just like driving down to the games in Bozeman. It usually takes me 3.5 hours to get there from Helena, which is normally a 1.5 hour drive. It's an incredible drive. I like to see the Cats win, but it isn't all that important. I get over them losing rather quickly.

When I was a kid I'd get all bent out of shape if one of my teams lost and my dad would chew me out saying, "Watching football is supposed to be a pastime, not a problem! If you're gonna act like that about it, you better find something else to do!" Very good advice. :)
My parents told me the same thing. Then I moved South and found out my parents priorities were misinformed. I look at the salaries kids make for a half dozen years of their lives playing, what they could make coaching and you better believe me when I say if I had a left handed boy, he'd live in baseball pitching camps instead of worrying about diagramming sentences or memorizing formulas for math!

It's more than a game. It can be an extremely lucrative career.



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Re: Truth is...

Post by catatac » Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:17 pm

Cat Grad wrote:
TomCat88 wrote:...I just like driving down to the games in Bozeman. It usually takes me 3.5 hours to get there from Helena, which is normally a 1.5 hour drive. It's an incredible drive. I like to see the Cats win, but it isn't all that important. I get over them losing rather quickly.

When I was a kid I'd get all bent out of shape if one of my teams lost and my dad would chew me out saying, "Watching football is supposed to be a pastime, not a problem! If you're gonna act like that about it, you better find something else to do!" Very good advice. :)
My parents told me the same thing. Then I moved South and found out my parents priorities were misinformed. I look at the salaries kids make for a half dozen years of their lives playing, what they could make coaching and you better believe me when I say if I had a left handed boy, he'd live in baseball pitching camps instead of worrying about diagramming sentences or memorizing formulas for math!

It's more than a game. It can be an extremely lucrative career.
Ha ha... Yes it can. However, making a living playing ANY sport is an extreme long shot, even for people with loads of God given talent. If making loads of money is the goal, you'd probably be better off teaching him to play hold em and giving a run at the world poker tour!


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Re: Truth is...

Post by Cat Grad » Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:21 pm

catatac wrote:
Cat Grad wrote:
TomCat88 wrote:...I just like driving down to the games in Bozeman. It usually takes me 3.5 hours to get there from Helena, which is normally a 1.5 hour drive. It's an incredible drive. I like to see the Cats win, but it isn't all that important. I get over them losing rather quickly.

When I was a kid I'd get all bent out of shape if one of my teams lost and my dad would chew me out saying, "Watching football is supposed to be a pastime, not a problem! If you're gonna act like that about it, you better find something else to do!" Very good advice. :)
My parents told me the same thing. Then I moved South and found out my parents priorities were misinformed. I look at the salaries kids make for a half dozen years of their lives playing, what they could make coaching and you better believe me when I say if I had a left handed boy, he'd live in baseball pitching camps instead of worrying about diagramming sentences or memorizing formulas for math!

It's more than a game. It can be an extremely lucrative career.
Ha ha... Yes it can. However, making a living playing ANY sport is an extreme long shot, even for people with loads of God given talent. If making loads of money is the goal, you'd probably be better off teaching him to play hold em and giving a run at the world poker tour!



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Re: Truth is...

Post by Cat Grad » Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:25 pm

catatac wrote:
Cat Grad wrote:
TomCat88 wrote:...I just like driving down to the games in Bozeman. It usually takes me 3.5 hours to get there from Helena, which is normally a 1.5 hour drive. It's an incredible drive. I like to see the Cats win, but it isn't all that important. I get over them losing rather quickly.

When I was a kid I'd get all bent out of shape if one of my teams lost and my dad would chew me out saying, "Watching football is supposed to be a pastime, not a problem! If you're gonna act like that about it, you better find something else to do!" Very good advice. :)
My parents told me the same thing. Then I moved South and found out my parents priorities were misinformed. I look at the salaries kids make for a half dozen years of their lives playing, what they could make coaching and you better believe me when I say if I had a left handed boy, he'd live in baseball pitching camps instead of worrying about diagramming sentences or memorizing formulas for math!

It's more than a game. It can be an extremely lucrative career.
Ha ha... Yes it can. However, making a living playing ANY sport is an extreme long shot, even for people with loads of God given talent. If making loads of money is the goal, you'd probably be better off teaching him to play hold em and giving a run at the world poker tour!

Really? I am very pleased i got out of Montana as that's still the prevailing mindset.



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Re: Truth is...

Post by bobcatfan15 » Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:48 am

If this kid actually was a student athlete he would have had an exit interview with Peter Fields. Here he should have addressed these issues.


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Re: Truth is...

Post by KittieKop » Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:16 pm

Cat Grad wrote:
catatac wrote:
Cat Grad wrote:
TomCat88 wrote:...I just like driving down to the games in Bozeman. It usually takes me 3.5 hours to get there from Helena, which is normally a 1.5 hour drive. It's an incredible drive. I like to see the Cats win, but it isn't all that important. I get over them losing rather quickly.

When I was a kid I'd get all bent out of shape if one of my teams lost and my dad would chew me out saying, "Watching football is supposed to be a pastime, not a problem! If you're gonna act like that about it, you better find something else to do!" Very good advice. :)
My parents told me the same thing. Then I moved South and found out my parents priorities were misinformed. I look at the salaries kids make for a half dozen years of their lives playing, what they could make coaching and you better believe me when I say if I had a left handed boy, he'd live in baseball pitching camps instead of worrying about diagramming sentences or memorizing formulas for math!

It's more than a game. It can be an extremely lucrative career.
Ha ha... Yes it can. However, making a living playing ANY sport is an extreme long shot, even for people with loads of God given talent. If making loads of money is the goal, you'd probably be better off teaching him to play hold em and giving a run at the world poker tour!

Really? I am very pleased i got out of Montana as that's still the prevailing mindset.
And if you believe that how much money you make is a measure of a person, then I feel sorry for you. Especially a college athletics program to have that attitude, that is where #1, really bad things happen, and #2, people and relationships are forgotten for sake of making a buck.


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Re: Truth is...

Post by allcat » Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:39 pm

Cat Grad wrote:
catatac wrote:
Cat Grad wrote:
TomCat88 wrote:...I just like driving down to the games in Bozeman. It usually takes me 3.5 hours to get there from Helena, which is normally a 1.5 hour drive. It's an incredible drive. I like to see the Cats win, but it isn't all that important. I get over them losing rather quickly.

When I was a kid I'd get all bent out of shape if one of my teams lost and my dad would chew me out saying, "Watching football is supposed to be a pastime, not a problem! If you're gonna act like that about it, you better find something else to do!" Very good advice. :)
My parents told me the same thing. Then I moved South and found out my parents priorities were misinformed. I look at the salaries kids make for a half dozen years of their lives playing, what they could make coaching and you better believe me when I say if I had a left handed boy, he'd live in baseball pitching camps instead of worrying about diagramming sentences or memorizing formulas for math!

It's more than a game. It can be an extremely lucrative career.
Ha ha... Yes it can. However, making a living playing ANY sport is an extreme long shot, even for people with loads of God given talent. If making loads of money is the goal, you'd probably be better off teaching him to play hold em and giving a run at the world poker tour!

Really? I am very pleased i got out of Montana as that's still the prevailing mindset.
We like life better than money. We are idiots, those who want want something else can go for it. You say you are glad you got out, but you returned. With the boatload of money you obviously brought back with you, please donate a small chunk of it to build the new stands that we need so that we can enjoy the games just a little more.


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Re: Truth is...

Post by LongTimeCatFan » Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:42 pm

allcat wrote:
Cat Grad wrote:
catatac wrote:
Cat Grad wrote:
TomCat88 wrote:...I just like driving down to the games in Bozeman. It usually takes me 3.5 hours to get there from Helena, which is normally a 1.5 hour drive. It's an incredible drive. I like to see the Cats win, but it isn't all that important. I get over them losing rather quickly.

When I was a kid I'd get all bent out of shape if one of my teams lost and my dad would chew me out saying, "Watching football is supposed to be a pastime, not a problem! If you're gonna act like that about it, you better find something else to do!" Very good advice. :)
My parents told me the same thing. Then I moved South and found out my parents priorities were misinformed. I look at the salaries kids make for a half dozen years of their lives playing, what they could make coaching and you better believe me when I say if I had a left handed boy, he'd live in baseball pitching camps instead of worrying about diagramming sentences or memorizing formulas for math!

It's more than a game. It can be an extremely lucrative career.
Ha ha... Yes it can. However, making a living playing ANY sport is an extreme long shot, even for people with loads of God given talent. If making loads of money is the goal, you'd probably be better off teaching him to play hold em and giving a run at the world poker tour!

Really? I am very pleased i got out of Montana as that's still the prevailing mindset.
We like life better than money. We are idiots, those who want want something else can go for it. You say you are glad you got out, but you returned. With the boatload of money you obviously brought back with you, please donate a small chunk of it to build the new stands that we need so that we can enjoy the games just a little more.
Thought you weren't renewing your tix due to the jacked up prices


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Re: Truth is...

Post by allcat » Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:36 pm

LongTimeCatFan wrote:
allcat wrote:
Cat Grad wrote:
catatac wrote:
Cat Grad wrote:
TomCat88 wrote:...I just like driving down to the games in Bozeman. It usually takes me 3.5 hours to get there from Helena, which is normally a 1.5 hour drive. It's an incredible drive. I like to see the Cats win, but it isn't all that important. I get over them losing rather quickly.

When I was a kid I'd get all bent out of shape if one of my teams lost and my dad would chew me out saying, "Watching football is supposed to be a pastime, not a problem! If you're gonna act like that about it, you better find something else to do!" Very good advice. :)
My parents told me the same thing. Then I moved South and found out my parents priorities were misinformed. I look at the salaries kids make for a half dozen years of their lives playing, what they could make coaching and you better believe me when I say if I had a left handed boy, he'd live in baseball pitching camps instead of worrying about diagramming sentences or memorizing formulas for math!

It's more than a game. It can be an extremely lucrative career.
Ha ha... Yes it can. However, making a living playing ANY sport is an extreme long shot, even for people with loads of God given talent. If making loads of money is the goal, you'd probably be better off teaching him to play hold em and giving a run at the world poker tour!

Really? I am very pleased i got out of Montana as that's still the prevailing mindset.
We like life better than money. We are idiots, those who want want something else can go for it. You say you are glad you got out, but you returned. With the boatload of money you obviously brought back with you, please donate a small chunk of it to build the new stands that we need so that we can enjoy the games just a little more.
Thought you weren't renewing your tix due to the jacked up prices


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It's the tailgate spots that are in question. If I would move out of this state though, I could afford them.


Geezer. Part Bionic,. Part Iconic

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