Truth is...

[LongTimeCatFan]

On a separate topic, speaking to the frat thing (we don't know exactly what was said, so we are relying on people's interpretations and characterizations of what he said, which are generally not one and the same),

I thought this was said during an after season interview which would be on record somewhere.

I must have missed it -- I always assumed this was something from a private discussion that people had leaked out. Please do let me know if you find any published statements from Ash about the fraternity thing.

Colter could probably go through his stuff, but I don't think it makes a difference. Nobody is denying Ash said it. It's just a known fact.

[TomCat88]

On a separate topic, speaking to the frat thing (we don't know exactly what was said, so we are relying on people's interpretations and characterizations of what he said, which are generally not one and the same),

I thought this was said during an after season interview which would be on record somewhere.

I must have missed it -- I always assumed this was something from a private discussion that people had leaked out. Please do let me know if you find any published statements from Ash about the fraternity thing.

Colter could probably go through his stuff, but I don't think it makes a difference. Nobody is denying Ash said it. It's just a known fact.

I think it makes a big difference. What did Ash say? And what was his tone? Who's confirming it was said? All three of those things would give this some context.

[catatac]

On a separate topic, speaking to the frat thing (we don't know exactly what was said, so we are relying on people's interpretations and characterizations of what he said, which are generally not one and the same),

I thought this was said during an after season interview which would be on record somewhere.

I must have missed it -- I always assumed this was something from a private discussion that people had leaked out. Please do let me know if you find any published statements from Ash about the fraternity thing.

Colter could probably go through his stuff, but I don't think it makes a difference. Nobody is denying Ash said it. It's just a known fact.

What did he say?

[allcat]

On a separate topic, speaking to the frat thing (we don't know exactly what was said, so we are relying on people's interpretations and characterizations of what he said, which are generally not one and the same),

I thought this was said during an after season interview which would be on record somewhere.

I must have missed it -- I always assumed this was something from a private discussion that people had leaked out. Please do let me know if you find any published statements from Ash about the fraternity thing.

Colter could probably go through his stuff, but I don't think it makes a difference. Nobody is denying Ash said it. It's just a known fact.

What did he say?

He, as it is with most, coaches don't want kids in frats.

[SonomaCat]

On a separate topic, speaking to the frat thing (we don't know exactly what was said, so we are relying on people's interpretations and characterizations of what he said, which are generally not one and the same),

I thought this was said during an after season interview which would be on record somewhere.

I must have missed it -- I always assumed this was something from a private discussion that people had leaked out. Please do let me know if you find any published statements from Ash about the fraternity thing.

Colter could probably go through his stuff, but I don't think it makes a difference. Nobody is denying Ash said it. It's just a known fact.

What did he say?

Yeah, that's what I've never figured out. If he just said that he doesn't want players in fraternities, then I think it's kind of a non-issue. In that case he would just be taking the same position that almost every other coach takes. We can disagree with it (and I do), but it's hard to call him out on it individually as its more of an "almost all college football coaches" thing than it is an Ash thing.

But others have said that he threw DM under the bus and put a lot of blame on him for the demise of last season because he was in a fraternity -- that's where I want to see some quotes to figure out if this characterization is correct or if this could just be the interpretation of somebody with an axe to grind (or the end result of the "rumor game" where the message that's hitting the posts is generations removed, and factually distant, from what was originally said), or if it is actually a fair interpretation of Ash's words.

[TIrwin24]

I can see why. When I was at school there in the early 2000's, all the fraternities with the exception of the "cowboy" frat (I forget what it was called) were all piles of ******. The guys that I knew that joined, absolutely raged in those houses and drank themselves silly.

[SonomaCat]

Colter could probably go through his stuff, but I don't think it makes a difference. Nobody is denying Ash said it. It's just a known fact.

If we don't know what "it" is, then how can anyone claim that "it" was actually said? So yeah, I think having his actual quote(s) is pretty important and that relying on second and third hand characterizations of what he said from message board posts isn't the best path to reaching sound conclusions on the topic.

[spring creek cat]

This is interesting to me. I have very close friends that were in school with DM. About his junior year they were telling me stories of the partying and going out, drinking with him out on the town, in frat parties. They all made comments that he was partying way more than any other football players were. Maybe this is what was causing the conflict. I wasn't there so it's just hearsay, but these are very close family friends of ours that were in school there and wouldn't have any reason to say otherwise. I am of the opinion, good for him. They are college kids they should party they should go out, as long as it doesn't affect studies, football, etc..... Lord knows it affected mine a time or two though. Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SonomaCat]

I can see why. When I was at school there in the early 2000's, all the fraternities with the exception of the "cowboy" frat (I forget what it was called) were all piles of ******. The guys that I knew that joined, absolutely raged in those houses and drank themselves silly.

The AGR house (my fraternity) was the "cowboy" frat, so I appreciate the shout-out. That said, I think many non-fraternity people are pretty quick to characterize people in fraternities based on stereotypes or from extrapolating ideas about the whole group from interactions with one or two people. I spent time in MSU both inside and outside of the Greek system, and I didn't see any noticeable difference in the numbers of piles of ****** or people who drank themselves silly on either side of the fence. But it's also considered PC to disparage everyone in the Greek system in a way that wouldn't be PC if it was about any other group.

Lots of very successful and great people came out of the Greek system during my years at MSU ... just like the campus at large. The one thing I can say to advocate the Greek system is that it really teaches you how to learn to live with (and even begin to try to understand) people that you otherwise would never be around. In any group that size, there will be a few people you don't like at first, but living in a fraternity you have to learn to how peacefully co-exist (and ultimately reasonably positive relationships with) everyone. That's not a bad life lesson.

[Cat Grad]

I can see why. When I was at school there in the early 2000's, all the fraternities with the exception of the "cowboy" frat (I forget what it was called) were all piles of ******. The guys that I knew that joined, absolutely raged in those houses and drank themselves silly.

I know why these schools frown upon this aspect of college life. Many of the kids who will "play" for Richt go there because he will tell the kid straight up where and when they need to become multimillionaires. It's why the kids choose to play for somebody like Richt and the time and hours these kids put in is incredible.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-1 ... greek.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[LongTimeCatFan]

Colter could probably go through his stuff, but I don't think it makes a difference. Nobody is denying Ash said it. It's just a known fact.

If we don't know what "it" is, then how can anyone claim that "it" was actually said? So yeah, I think having his actual quote(s) is pretty important and that relying on second and third hand characterizations of what he said from message board posts isn't the best path to knowledge.

I could be totally wrong here, but I'm pretty sure it was an exchange between Ash and Colter. My recollection was Colter said, with all of the record breaking talent in this senior class, there was an expectation of a far better finish to the season. What do you attribute to the way the season ended? Ash answered, Well, I'll probably never let another one of my players join a fraternity again.

[Hawks86]

I might have missed it but it's not on the podcast or article following the game ?

[BozoneCat]

Ya, but don't let facts screw up a good downer session! Thanks for posting that. We all know the Friggin Cat\Griz game this year completely sucked, and was a kick in the pills. But it was one game. I know for a fact that one game has turned a lot of posters sour about this team and this program but hopefully people can step back and apreciate the success we've had here. You posted FACTS that disprove the claim that we've topped out at 8 win seasons. I and others have posted the records for November games in the past 5 or 6 years and proved that the infamous "November Meltdown" doesn't exist. I've posted stats from teams a few years back where we led teh Big Sky in defense to disprove the posts that "Our D under ash sucks and has always sucked."

You're absolutely right, it was one game in the 2014 season. It's one game every season. The difference for me and I believe a lot of fans is it's the most important game. For many of us residing in the state, we hear about it all year long. So it's the only game that matters for 12 months out of the year, it doesn't go away until the next year. Ash's comment that getting to the playoffs takes the bad taste out of our mouth losing the CAT/griz game couldn't be more misguided.

That said I can certainly understand you can't win them all; so if we go to the record, Ash is 2 and 6 against the griz, not anything to brag about and certainly it would appear he has difficulty coaching against them.

Now does that mean he needs to be fired? I don't have enough information to answer that intelligently, but I do think he needs to realign his priorities. He has said many times he looks at the CAT/griz as one game, and I believe him. He has said since the day he came here the wins and losses go behind his name, so I believe he looks to every game the same. I suggest he needs to look to the CAT/griz with more priority. And if he coaches to beat the Griz it will trickle down to the whole season and likely the playoffs.

I respect your opinion, but we probably have to disagree about Cat\Griz being the most important game of the year, now that we regularly make the playoffs. Trust me, I'm in the same boat. I am so sick and tired of hearing about the beat down from Griz nation (whether from friends or just random idiots across the state talking smack). I don't know how many of you have had conversations with Ash throughout the years, but trust me... he gets it. He may not have fully understood the rivalry until a year or two in, but he fully understands the magnitude of it now. Ash's goal for coming here, which has remained unchanged, is to create a winning culture and create a program that competes for and ultimately wins a national championship. The ONLY way to do that is to treat every single game, every week, as if it's the most important game they're ever played. Thus, they treat each game, each week the same, and prepare accordingly, This creates consistency. I totally feel your pain, but planning an entire season around trying to win one game, unless it's the national championship, is setting us up for failure. As for the "taste in our mouths" comment, he obviously needed to get his team to forget that chit show that went on in Missoula and get them focused on our playoff game.

Personally, I think Ash is easily smart enough to understand the importance of the game, but I don't think he "feels" it deep down in his blood like native Montanans do. While I agree that beating the griz in and of itself is no more or less important than winning any other game we play, the significance of winning this game goes far beyond a notch in the W/L column. Emotionally, this game means so much to Bobcats all over the nation, and personally I just don't think Coach Ash will ever feel that in the same way. The best possible upside of putting a slightly higher emphasis on preparation for this game is that if we consistently field teams that are good enough to beat the griz, we will continually field teams that are primed for deep runs into the playoffs. Everybody wins!

[catatac]

I agree Bozone, he may never feel that emotional tie to the game like we all do. So let me ask this question. Would you rather win Cat Griz, or the chipper? How about Cat Griz or a first round playoff game?

[Griznationalist]

I can see why. When I was at school there in the early 2000's, all the fraternities with the exception of the "cowboy" frat (I forget what it was called) were all piles of ******. The guys that I knew that joined, absolutely raged in those houses and drank themselves silly.

Frats are interesting exhibits of human nature. I never understood them. But there is really a cowboy frat? Somewhere a lot of real cowboys just rolled in their graves upon hearing that one.

[catatac]

I can see why. When I was at school there in the early 2000's, all the fraternities with the exception of the "cowboy" frat (I forget what it was called) were all piles of ******. The guys that I knew that joined, absolutely raged in those houses and drank themselves silly.

Frats are interesting exhibits of human nature. I never understood them. But there is really a cowboy frat? Somewhere a lot of real cowboys just rolled in their graves upon hearing that one.

It's the AGR, Alpha Gamma Rho frat.... it's not actually called the cowboy frat if you were serious! But when I went to school there I had some friends in it... and unless things have changed, most of the AGR guys actually are real cowboys.

[HelenaCat]

Colter could probably go through his stuff, but I don't think it makes a difference. Nobody is denying Ash said it. It's just a known fact.

If we don't know what "it" is, then how can anyone claim that "it" was actually said? So yeah, I think having his actual quote(s) is pretty important and that relying on second and third hand characterizations of what he said from message board posts isn't the best path to knowledge.

I could be totally wrong here, but I'm pretty sure it was an exchange between Ash and Colter. My recollection was Colter said, with all of the record breaking talent in this senior class, there was an expectation of a far better finish to the season. What do you attribute to the way the season ended? Ash answered, Well, I'll probably never let another one of my players join a fraternity again.

Well, I am getting pretty old and my memory is not as good as it once was, but I am pretty darn sure I never read anything even close to that. Maybe it was in a podcast because I don't often listen to those, but I read almost everything from Colter. If it is in a podcast or an article, I would sure like to see or hear it and see the actual quote. What you wrote here in no way throws DM under the bus. That could mean lots of things. I think this whole thing is just another let's look for something to bash Ash with.

[LongTimeCatFan]

Colter could probably go through his stuff, but I don't think it makes a difference. Nobody is denying Ash said it. It's just a known fact.

If we don't know what "it" is, then how can anyone claim that "it" was actually said? So yeah, I think having his actual quote(s) is pretty important and that relying on second and third hand characterizations of what he said from message board posts isn't the best path to knowledge.

I could be totally wrong here, but I'm pretty sure it was an exchange between Ash and Colter. My recollection was Colter said, with all of the record breaking talent in this senior class, there was an expectation of a far better finish to the season. What do you attribute to the way the season ended? Ash answered, Well, I'll probably never let another one of my players join a fraternity again.

Well, I am getting pretty old and my memory is not as good as it once was, but I am pretty darn sure I never read anything even close to that. Maybe it was in a podcast because I don't often listen to those, but I read almost everything from Colter. If it is in a podcast or an article, I would sure like to see or hear it and see the actual quote. What you wrote here in no way throws DM under the bus. That could mean lots of things. I think this whole thing is just another let's look for something to bash Ash with.

In no way? It directly blames McGhee's involvement in a fraternity for the losses of the season. There's simply no other way to read that.

Since you think it means something else, what do think it means?

[77matcat]

Colter could probably go through his stuff, but I don't think it makes a difference. Nobody is denying Ash said it. It's just a known fact.

If we don't know what "it" is, then how can anyone claim that "it" was actually said? So yeah, I think having his actual quote(s) is pretty important and that relying on second and third hand characterizations of what he said from message board posts isn't the best path to knowledge.

I could be totally wrong here, but I'm pretty sure it was an exchange between Ash and Colter. My recollection was Colter said, with all of the record breaking talent in this senior class, there was an expectation of a far better finish to the season. What do you attribute to the way the season ended? Ash answered, Well, I'll probably never let another one of my players join a fraternity again.

I recall this exchange, but not the time or place.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BozoneCat]

I agree Bozone, he may never feel that emotional tie to the game like we all do. So let me ask this question. Would you rather win Cat Griz, or the chipper? How about Cat Griz or a first round playoff game?

No doubt, I would rather win a 1st round playoff game, and I would definitely rather win a national championship! I'm not so entrenched with hatred that I can't see the forest for the trees when it comes to beating the griz, and I hope most all Bobcat fans have grown past the mentality of "if we win Cat/griz and lose the rest of our games, it'd still be a successful season." But that said, denying the importance of winning this game does a great disservice to our team and our fans. In the grand scheme of the season from a W/L perspective, it's just one game. But it MEANS more than that. Most importantly, winning the game helps us significantly in recruiting, playoff positioning, and fundraising.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk