Tribune Ash article

[77matcat]

Yup, you all sound like losing to the Griz means the season was a waste. I'd like to think we as a fanbase have moved beyond that, that we have bigger goals than that, but I see it isn't that way for everyone.

Ash never said he was satisfied with only making the playoffs, only that making the playoffs took the sting out of losing to the Griz. I don't see what is so terrible about that statement? Some of you have such blind hatred for Ash you twist and turn his words into what you want them to say.

I think the issue of the griz loss and Ash has to do with the fact that he has not communicated about it well at all. His comments leading into the game were, "it's just another game", which it isn't! His comments after the game were, "we'll have to look at the tape"... and that is always coach-speak!

If he would simply do the Kramer... "we got our asses handed to us, and a lot of this lands on our coaching decisions..." I think people would be a whole lot quieter about the um game. But, because he really fails at communicating in a way that inspires honest reactions, people wonder at what is truly going on with him. IMO

I feel the same. Never seems to take responsibility for anything. Think defensive line coach did a while ago and it was refreshing.


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[LongTimeCatFan]

Yup, you all sound like losing to the Griz means the season was a waste. I'd like to think we as a fanbase have moved beyond that, that we have bigger goals than that, but I see it isn't that way for everyone.

Ash never said he was satisfied with only making the playoffs, only that making the playoffs took the sting out of losing to the Griz. I don't see what is so terrible about that statement? Some of you have such blind hatred for Ash you twist and turn his words into what you want them to say.

I think the issue of the griz loss and Ash has to do with the fact that he has not communicated about it well at all. His comments leading into the game were, "it's just another game", which it isn't! His comments after the game were, "we'll have to look at the tape"... and that is always coach-speak!

If he would simply do the Kramer... "we got our asses handed to us, and a lot of this lands on our coaching decisions..." I think people would be a whole lot quieter about the um game. But, because he really fails at communicating in a way that inspires honest reactions, people wonder at what is truly going on with him. IMO

I feel the same. Never seems to take responsibility for anything. Think defensive line coach did a while ago and it was refreshing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nope. It's never poor coaching or bad schemes or bad play calling or bad management.

It's poor execution, specifically this or that player. It's our QB because he joined a frat. It's...... Never Ash's or Marshall's fault and if a coach or player says otherwise to the media, they'll get a butt chewing.

[allcat]

Yup, you all sound like losing to the Griz means the season was a waste. I'd like to think we as a fanbase have moved beyond that, that we have bigger goals than that, but I see it isn't that way for everyone.

Ash never said he was satisfied with only making the playoffs, only that making the playoffs took the sting out of losing to the Griz. I don't see what is so terrible about that statement? Some of you have such blind hatred for Ash you twist and turn his words into what you want them to say.

I think the issue of the griz loss and Ash has to do with the fact that he has not communicated about it well at all. His comments leading into the game were, "it's just another game", which it isn't! His comments after the game were, "we'll have to look at the tape"... and that is always coach-speak!

If he would simply do the Kramer... "we got our asses handed to us, and a lot of this lands on our coaching decisions..." I think people would be a whole lot quieter about the um game. But, because he really fails at communicating in a way that inspires honest reactions, people wonder at what is truly going on with him. IMO

I feel the same. Never seems to take responsibility for anything. Think defensive line coach did a while ago and it was refreshing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nope. It's never poor coaching or bad schemes or bad play calling or bad management.

It's poor execution, specifically this or that player. It's our QB because he joined a frat. It's...... Never Ash's or Marshall's fault and if a coach or player says otherwise to the media, they'll get a butt chewing.

I agree with that. The kids do make mistakes, but when it keeps happening it is COACHING.

[catatac]

Atac

In short the summary is if the offense runs more series (not necessarily plays) the other offense will also will have the ball more times (rules, rules, rules) thus, giving them an opportunity to score more.

A poor defense or one that plays bend and bend will be on the field more minutes. A good defense may be on the field more series but not necessarily more time than the average defense.

No debating. Pretty much what I have been saying.

What is getting old is folks seeming to justify our poor defensive performance because of our up tempo spread offense. Just is not the case.


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Agree. When a team decides to run 80 plays per game versus 50, it's almost guaranteed they're going to give up more points to the opponent. That doesn't excuse poor defensive play. We need to get better on D, whether it's scheme, players, or both. It's not fatigue, we were in damn good shape from my perspective, rarely got worn down.

[catatac]

I hate this little brother ******. This isn't 1996. The season doesn't end in November anymore. Success for this program is more about what happens in the postseason and less about what happens on the way there.

Take your pick. Ash has only beat the Griz 2 times and has only won 2 playoff games.

That's true. It's also true that "only won 2 playoff games" sounding bad to us is a sign that Ash has raised the level of this program.

Great point. Also keep in mind the # of byes we've had (which means we didn't have to play in the first round because we were seeded based on excellent regular season play. Obviously would have been huge favorites to win the first round games as well had we played them.) Lastly, I'm not sure who has the better record against the Griz between Kramer or Ash but I'm pretty sure we NEVER had a situation in the Kramer era where we could lose to the Griz and still make the playoffs. We all know it's not "just another game" but Ash has set his sights higher than just beating the Griz.

[John K]

I hate this little brother ******. This isn't 1996. The season doesn't end in November anymore. Success for this program is more about what happens in the postseason and less about what happens on the way there.

Take your pick. Ash has only beat the Griz 2 times and has only won 2 playoff games.

That's true. It's also true that "only won 2 playoff games" sounding bad to us is a sign that Ash has raised the level of this program.

Great point. Also keep in mind the # of byes we've had (which means we didn't have to play in the first round because we were seeded based on excellent regular season play. Obviously would have been huge favorites to win the first round games as well had we played them.) Lastly, I'm not sure who has the better record against the Griz between Kramer or Ash but I'm pretty sure we NEVER had a situation in the Kramer era where we could lose to the Griz and still make the playoffs. We all know it's not "just another game" but Ash has set his sights higher than just beating the Griz.

Kramer was 3-4 versus UM, and in 2006 we made the playoffs, despite losing a very close game in Missoula. We were also generally much more competitive in the Cat-Griz losses under Kramer, than we've been under Ash. Plus, our Cat-Griz wins under Kramer came against very good, playoff caliber Griz teams. Ash's two Cat-Griz wins both came in "down" years for UM. They didn't make the playoffs either season, and they were a sub .500 team when we beat them in 2012.

[catsfan_769273]

Yup, you all sound like losing to the Griz means the season was a waste. I'd like to think we as a fanbase have moved beyond that, that we have bigger goals than that, but I see it isn't that way for everyone.

Ash never said he was satisfied with only making the playoffs, only that making the playoffs took the sting out of losing to the Griz. I don't see what is so terrible about that statement? Some of you have such blind hatred for Ash you twist and turn his words into what you want them to say.

It's not blind and it not hatred. I've given several reasons several times about why I'd like a change. I think a lot of people are just plain pissed. Pissed about "Its just another game" with a performance that matches it. Pissed about throwing McGhee under the bus after everything he did for the program and the University. But ultimately it's a culmination of poor decisions and bad team management that make us believe we've hit a plateau.

And if you don't think the Cat Griz game is a big deal, you're just kidding yourself. You know better than that.

I don't think he is that bad of a coach. He brings in very talented players and he wins the games that should be won but rarely seems to win games we are not favored in. And I am not sayin Kramer is perfect but it seems to me he won more games we weren't favored in. And it is not all on the player or all on the coaches. We have talented players on d but the weren't playing hard and pursuing like they should have part of that is coaching and part of that is them not wanting to pursue. In some ways I would like a change but what is the likely hood that who ever they bring in will be able to recruit as well as Ash.

[Cat Grad]

We get to find out the next few years who is the better recruiter and coach in head to head competition. ISU vs MSU.

[mslacatfan]

We get to find out the next few years who is the better recruiter and coach in head to head competition. ISU vs MSU.

good point.

I would say both were/are VERY good recruiters, and both have had issues with getting the most out of that talent on game day. We hated Kramers O-Coordinator and we pretty much feel the same about Ash's D-Coordinator...

[catatac]

One last point on this... ya I know injuries are part of the game but we'd had some terrible luck late season some years. People can agree with me or not but I know without a doubt in my mind that if you flip us and the Griz this year, meaning we get to start a healthy Prukop and they start Smithwick H, we win that game easily. Then we beat San Diego in the first round, probably beat SDSU in the 2nd, then who knows what happens in Fargo.

[Cat Grad]

We get to find out the next few years who is the better recruiter and coach in head to head competition. ISU vs MSU.

good point.

I would say both were/are VERY good recruiters, and both have had issues with getting the most out of that talent on game day. We hated Kramers O-Coordinator and we pretty much feel the same about Ash's D-Coordinator...

I don't think Don Bailey is ever going to play another quarterback that has to call time out the third play after half game after game because he can't remember the sign changes...

[GoldstoneCat]

Yup, you all sound like losing to the Griz means the season was a waste. I'd like to think we as a fanbase have moved beyond that, that we have bigger goals than that, but I see it isn't that way for everyone.

Ash never said he was satisfied with only making the playoffs, only that making the playoffs took the sting out of losing to the Griz. I don't see what is so terrible about that statement? Some of you have such blind hatred for Ash you twist and turn his words into what you want them to say.

It's not blind and it not hatred. I've given several reasons several times about why I'd like a change. I think a lot of people are just plain pissed. Pissed about "Its just another game" with a performance that matches it. Pissed about throwing McGhee under the bus after everything he did for the program and the University. But ultimately it's a culmination of poor decisions and bad team management that make us believe we've hit a plateau.

And if you don't think the Cat Griz game is a big deal, you're just kidding yourself. You know better than that.

I don't think he is that bad of a coach. He brings in very talented players and he wins the games that should be won but rarely seems to win games we are not favored in. And I am not sayin Kramer is perfect but it seems to me he won more games we weren't favored in. And it is not all on the player or all on the coaches. We have talented players on d but the weren't playing hard and pursuing like they should have part of that is coaching and part of that is them not wanting to pursue. In some ways I would like a change but what is the likely hood that who ever they bring in will be able to recruit as well as Ash.

That's the way I remember it as well, seems like we could always pull an upset when we shouldn't have, or stay in games (at OK State comes to mind) where we had no business doing it under Kramer. However, I also remember his teams playing down to really poor teams as well (losing to Central Washington, Chadron). With Ash, we do seem to struggle in big-time games, although we won the back-to-back EWU games early in McGhee's years, and have won a couple playoff games as well. What you don't see us do hardly ever, I'm trying to remember one even, is lose to a bottom-feeder team in the conference, or play around with a D2 game. We have struggled for a time against the UNDs, Northern Colorados, PSU's of the world but we dont' seem to ever lay the ultimate egg in one of those type of games under this staff.

[Cat Grad]

Yup, you all sound like losing to the Griz means the season was a waste. I'd like to think we as a fanbase have moved beyond that, that we have bigger goals than that, but I see it isn't that way for everyone.

Ash never said he was satisfied with only making the playoffs, only that making the playoffs took the sting out of losing to the Griz. I don't see what is so terrible about that statement? Some of you have such blind hatred for Ash you twist and turn his words into what you want them to say.

It's not blind and it not hatred. I've given several reasons several times about why I'd like a change. I think a lot of people are just plain pissed. Pissed about "Its just another game" with a performance that matches it. Pissed about throwing McGhee under the bus after everything he did for the program and the University. But ultimately it's a culmination of poor decisions and bad team management that make us believe we've hit a plateau.

And if you don't think the Cat Griz game is a big deal, you're just kidding yourself. You know better than that.

I don't think he is that bad of a coach. He brings in very talented players and he wins the games that should be won but rarely seems to win games we are not favored in. And I am not sayin Kramer is perfect but it seems to me he won more games we weren't favored in. And it is not all on the player or all on the coaches. We have talented players on d but the weren't playing hard and pursuing like they should have part of that is coaching and part of that is them not wanting to pursue. In some ways I would like a change but what is the likely hood that who ever they bring in will be able to recruit as well as Ash.

That's the way I remember it as well, seems like we could always pull an upset when we shouldn't have, or stay in games (at OK State comes to mind) where we had no business doing it under Kramer. However, I also remember his teams playing down to really poor teams as well (losing to Central Washington, Chadron). With Ash, we do seem to struggle in big-time games, although we won the back-to-back EWU games early in McGhee's years, and have won a couple playoff games as well. What you don't see us do hardly ever, I'm trying to remember one even, is lose to a bottom-feeder team in the conference, or play around with a D2 game. We have struggled for a time against the UNDs, Northern Colorados, PSU's of the world but we dont' seem to ever lay the ultimate egg in one of those type of games under this staff.

Northern Colorado's first conference win. I believe that's the game Macky Nolan got told: "Hey you, walk-on freshman, go get your stuff. Both the punter and kicker are sick. No we won't give you any help before the game and we'll say after the game its because we didn't have a punter or kicker." Maybe it was Eastern but it did establish kind of what LTCF has alluded to reference throwing the kids under the bus. Of course, there was a lot of emotions being thrown around for some reason during the first few years of his tenure. Can't recall what that was all about...

[LongTimeCatFan]

Yup, you all sound like losing to the Griz means the season was a waste. I'd like to think we as a fanbase have moved beyond that, that we have bigger goals than that, but I see it isn't that way for everyone.

Ash never said he was satisfied with only making the playoffs, only that making the playoffs took the sting out of losing to the Griz. I don't see what is so terrible about that statement? Some of you have such blind hatred for Ash you twist and turn his words into what you want them to say.

It's not blind and it not hatred. I've given several reasons several times about why I'd like a change. I think a lot of people are just plain pissed. Pissed about "Its just another game" with a performance that matches it. Pissed about throwing McGhee under the bus after everything he did for the program and the University. But ultimately it's a culmination of poor decisions and bad team management that make us believe we've hit a plateau.

And if you don't think the Cat Griz game is a big deal, you're just kidding yourself. You know better than that.

I don't think he is that bad of a coach. He brings in very talented players and he wins the games that should be won but rarely seems to win games we are not favored in. And I am not sayin Kramer is perfect but it seems to me he won more games we weren't favored in. And it is not all on the player or all on the coaches. We have talented players on d but the weren't playing hard and pursuing like they should have part of that is coaching and part of that is them not wanting to pursue. In some ways I would like a change but what is the likely hood that who ever they bring in will be able to recruit as well as Ash.

That's the way I remember it as well, seems like we could always pull an upset when we shouldn't have, or stay in games (at OK State comes to mind) where we had no business doing it under Kramer. However, I also remember his teams playing down to really poor teams as well (losing to Central Washington, Chadron). With Ash, we do seem to struggle in big-time games, although we won the back-to-back EWU games early in McGhee's years, and have won a couple playoff games as well. What you don't see us do hardly ever, I'm trying to remember one even, is lose to a bottom-feeder team in the conference, or play around with a D2 game. We have struggled for a time against the UNDs, Northern Colorados, PSU's of the world but we dont' seem to ever lay the ultimate egg in one of those type of games under this staff.

Ash gave northern Colorado their first big sky win

[Cat_gld]

Yup, you all sound like losing to the Griz means the season was a waste. I'd like to think we as a fanbase have moved beyond that, that we have bigger goals than that, but I see it isn't that way for everyone.

Ash never said he was satisfied with only making the playoffs, only that making the playoffs took the sting out of losing to the Griz. I don't see what is so terrible about that statement? Some of you have such blind hatred for Ash you twist and turn his words into what you want them to say.

It's not blind and it not hatred. I've given several reasons several times about why I'd like a change. I think a lot of people are just plain pissed. Pissed about "Its just another game" with a performance that matches it. Pissed about throwing McGhee under the bus after everything he did for the program and the University. But ultimately it's a culmination of poor decisions and bad team management that make us believe we've hit a plateau.

And if you don't think the Cat Griz game is a big deal, you're just kidding yourself. You know better than that.

I don't think he is that bad of a coach. He brings in very talented players and he wins the games that should be won but rarely seems to win games we are not favored in. And I am not sayin Kramer is perfect but it seems to me he won more games we weren't favored in. And it is not all on the player or all on the coaches. We have talented players on d but the weren't playing hard and pursuing like they should have part of that is coaching and part of that is them not wanting to pursue. In some ways I would like a change but what is the likely hood that who ever they bring in will be able to recruit as well as Ash.

That's the way I remember it as well, seems like we could always pull an upset when we shouldn't have, or stay in games (at OK State comes to mind) where we had no business doing it under Kramer. However, I also remember his teams playing down to really poor teams as well (losing to Central Washington, Chadron). With Ash, we do seem to struggle in big-time games, although we won the back-to-back EWU games early in McGhee's years, and have won a couple playoff games as well. What you don't see us do hardly ever, I'm trying to remember one even, is lose to a bottom-feeder team in the conference, or play around with a D2 game. We have struggled for a time against the UNDs, Northern Colorados, PSU's of the world but we dont' seem to ever lay the ultimate egg in one of those type of games under this staff.

The Cats gave UNC their first conference win in 2007 (Ash's first year here). The Cats have always struggled against the bottom feeders, but at the same time have gotten decisive wins against upper tier teams, e.g., EWU in 2010 and NAU in 2013. So, it's a mixed bag. They just don't seem to gel in November under Ash like they did under Kramer.

[mslacatfan]

Yup, you all sound like losing to the Griz means the season was a waste. I'd like to think we as a fanbase have moved beyond that, that we have bigger goals than that, but I see it isn't that way for everyone.

Ash never said he was satisfied with only making the playoffs, only that making the playoffs took the sting out of losing to the Griz. I don't see what is so terrible about that statement? Some of you have such blind hatred for Ash you twist and turn his words into what you want them to say.

It's not blind and it not hatred. I've given several reasons several times about why I'd like a change. I think a lot of people are just plain pissed. Pissed about "Its just another game" with a performance that matches it. Pissed about throwing McGhee under the bus after everything he did for the program and the University. But ultimately it's a culmination of poor decisions and bad team management that make us believe we've hit a plateau.

And if you don't think the Cat Griz game is a big deal, you're just kidding yourself. You know better than that.

I don't think he is that bad of a coach. He brings in very talented players and he wins the games that should be won but rarely seems to win games we are not favored in. And I am not sayin Kramer is perfect but it seems to me he won more games we weren't favored in. And it is not all on the player or all on the coaches. We have talented players on d but the weren't playing hard and pursuing like they should have part of that is coaching and part of that is them not wanting to pursue. In some ways I would like a change but what is the likely hood that who ever they bring in will be able to recruit as well as Ash.

That's the way I remember it as well, seems like we could always pull an upset when we shouldn't have, or stay in games (at OK State comes to mind) where we had no business doing it under Kramer. However, I also remember his teams playing down to really poor teams as well (losing to Central Washington, Chadron). With Ash, we do seem to struggle in big-time games, although we won the back-to-back EWU games early in McGhee's years, and have won a couple playoff games as well. What you don't see us do hardly ever, I'm trying to remember one even, is lose to a bottom-feeder team in the conference, or play around with a D2 game. We have struggled for a time against the UNDs, Northern Colorados, PSU's of the world but we dont' seem to ever lay the ultimate egg in one of those type of games under this staff.

The Cats gave UNC their first conference win in 2007 (Ash's first year here). The Cats have always struggled against the bottom feeders, but at the same time have gotten decisive wins against upper tier teams, e.g., EWU in 2010 and NAU in 2013. So, it's a mixed bag. They just don't seem to gel in November under Ash like they did under Kramer.

I don't know if you are joking?... but Kramer was far more famous for his November meltdowns than Ash, its not even close. Also, you want to talk about losing to bottom feeders (if you are comparing to Kramer), does Chadron State ring a bell?

[CelticCat]

Let's just say when a DII team comes to town under Ash, I have no doubt in my mind who will win.

When a DII came to town under Kramer, I was pretty sure we were going to win...

[Cat_gld]

Yup, you all sound like losing to the Griz means the season was a waste. I'd like to think we as a fanbase have moved beyond that, that we have bigger goals than that, but I see it isn't that way for everyone.

Ash never said he was satisfied with only making the playoffs, only that making the playoffs took the sting out of losing to the Griz. I don't see what is so terrible about that statement? Some of you have such blind hatred for Ash you twist and turn his words into what you want them to say.

It's not blind and it not hatred. I've given several reasons several times about why I'd like a change. I think a lot of people are just plain pissed. Pissed about "Its just another game" with a performance that matches it. Pissed about throwing McGhee under the bus after everything he did for the program and the University. But ultimately it's a culmination of poor decisions and bad team management that make us believe we've hit a plateau.

And if you don't think the Cat Griz game is a big deal, you're just kidding yourself. You know better than that.

I don't think he is that bad of a coach. He brings in very talented players and he wins the games that should be won but rarely seems to win games we are not favored in. And I am not sayin Kramer is perfect but it seems to me he won more games we weren't favored in. And it is not all on the player or all on the coaches. We have talented players on d but the weren't playing hard and pursuing like they should have part of that is coaching and part of that is them not wanting to pursue. In some ways I would like a change but what is the likely hood that who ever they bring in will be able to recruit as well as Ash.

That's the way I remember it as well, seems like we could always pull an upset when we shouldn't have, or stay in games (at OK State comes to mind) where we had no business doing it under Kramer. However, I also remember his teams playing down to really poor teams as well (losing to Central Washington, Chadron). With Ash, we do seem to struggle in big-time games, although we won the back-to-back EWU games early in McGhee's years, and have won a couple playoff games as well. What you don't see us do hardly ever, I'm trying to remember one even, is lose to a bottom-feeder team in the conference, or play around with a D2 game. We have struggled for a time against the UNDs, Northern Colorados, PSU's of the world but we dont' seem to ever lay the ultimate egg in one of those type of games under this staff.

The Cats gave UNC their first conference win in 2007 (Ash's first year here). The Cats have always struggled against the bottom feeders, but at the same time have gotten decisive wins against upper tier teams, e.g., EWU in 2010 and NAU in 2013. So, it's a mixed bag. They just don't seem to gel in November under Ash like they did under Kramer.

I don't know if you are joking?... but Kramer was far more famous for his November meltdowns than Ash, its not even close. Also, you want to talk about losing to bottom feeders (if you are comparing to Kramer), does Chadron State ring a bell?

Not joking at all. I was referring to bottom feeders in the conference, e.g., ISU, UNC, PSU, and in some years WSU. I acknowledge that Kramer's teams lost to 3 D II schools, but none of those games were played in November. I wouldn't exactly call Chadron a bottom feeder that year, which was the same year (2006) they beat Furman, on Nov 25 to be exact. The year they lost to CWU (2002), Kramer actually made an adjustment, and they went on to end the streak against the griz, shared the conference championship and got a playoff berth...all in November. I don't recall any complete meltdowns in November during the Kramer years except the one with 0-11 record.

[CelticCat]

2004, sitting 6-2, 4-0 in conference, lose final 3 games to miss playoffs.

2005, sitting at 6-3 and 4-1 in conference, get beat handily by EWU 2nd to last game, go on to beat the Griz but miss the playoffs.

Of course, if the playoffs had 24 teams back then, Kramer teams would have made the playoffs every year except for 2004 most likely.

[John K]

2004, sitting 6-2, 4-0 in conference, lose final 3 games to miss playoffs.

2005, sitting at 6-3 and 4-1 in conference, get beat handily by EWU 2nd to last game, go on to beat the Griz but miss the playoffs.

Of course, if the playoffs had 24 teams back then, Kramer teams would have made the playoffs every year except for 2004 most likely.

2004 was an aberration, largely due to injuries, particularly in the secondary. People always cite injuries when defending Ash, so let's extend the same courtesy to Kramer. Other than that year, his teams generally improved as the season went along. In fact, one of my biggest frustrations with Kramer, is that we usually stumbled out of the gate, putting us in the position of having to win out, or close to it, to have any chance of contending for the BSC title and/or a playoff berth.

2002: started 1-2/3-5, won final four including ending the streak
2003: started 0-1/2-4, won five of final six including 2nd straight over UM
2004: ended the season playing 3 or 4 freshmen in the secondary, defense got lit up in final three games, all losses, after starting 4-0/6-2
2005: finished 5-2/7-4, co-BSC champs, would have made the playoffs if the field was 24 teams as it is now
2006: started 0-1/1-3, won six straight before losing 13-7 to UM, crushed Furman in the 1st round, which is the equivalent of the 2nd round now (round of 16), since the field was expanded, trailed defending champ App St. only 24-17 early in the 4th quarter before Jefferson's INT changed the tide.