Tribune Ash article

[technoCat]

I think we just need to put more emphasis on creating turnovers. Give up the big plays and the long drives but when that bad pass or running back with a loose hold inevitably comes, you have to get the TO. That's how the Saints won their SB. The defense had terrible numbers statistically but they got those game changing TOs at a fairly regular rate. There was at least 10 times this season where our DBs had good coverage and because they didn't attempt to make a play on the ball it either fell harmlessly to the turf of was completed right over their heads. Turn those into 10 interceptions and its a completely different outlook at our d.

[John K]

I think we just need to put more emphasis on creating turnovers. Give up the big plays and the long drives but when that bad pass or running back with a loose hold inevitably comes, you have to get the TO. That's how the Saints won their SB. The defense had terrible numbers statistically but they got those game changing TOs at a fairly regular rate. There was at least 10 times this season where our DBs had good coverage and because they didn't attempt to make a play on the ball it either fell harmlessly to the turf of was completed right over their heads. Turn those into 10 interceptions and its a completely different outlook at our d.

That's just the problem though. Marshall's defenses have not generally excelled at creating turnovers. We've sometimes had exceptional individual playmakers who were good at forcing turnovers, such as Caleb Schreibeis(sp) or Jody Owens, but overall we haven't been what you'd call a "ball hawking" defense during the Ash/Marshall regime. Even when we had players like Caleb and Jody, we've never been among the league leaders in TO gained, and this year we were near the bottom of the BSC in that category.

[LongTimeCatFan]

"A good/great defense goes 3 and out and doesn't get tired. Please address this statement and prove it wrong if you care to reply. Speaking past or around is evading the point."

Uh, ok... I'll address this statement. It's completely false, and I don't need to prove anything. Why don't you show me a defense that goes three and out every possession, and never ever gets tired. I'll wait for the examples.

The funny thing is that even if there was a team that did get a three-and-out on every possession, an up-tempo offense would still force them to play more possessions. Probably not enough that they would actually affect their play...but they would be more sore and tired after the game.

Now, even if we assume that playing more doesn't affect a defense's ability to play defense, real defenses get scored on, even the good ones. Every so many possessions, they give up a score. Now, if the defense has to play more possessions in a game, and they give up points at the same rate, they will actually give up more points per game even if they are just as good a defense.

That isn't to say that the up-tempo offense is an excuse for Marshall's defense. It's not. Running Oregon's offense might turn a great defense (talent-wise) into a very good defense (ppg-wise), or an average defense into a slightly below-average defense. It's not going to turn a reasonably talented defense into a total ******. Nor is it an excuse for Marshall's previous defenses, which ranged in talent between good and great, but never managed to put together a full season of results that reflected the talent. And I would say that this team's defense was at least average in terms of talent. They had two first-team all-conference players (out of twelve) and five total all-conference players (out of thirty-seven). They had two third-team All-Americans. Most teams don't have two All-Americans. The good ones usually do...but that's my point. This was a good team playing terrible defense, not a terrible collection of defensive players. A decent defensive coach, even facing the difficulty of alternating with Cramsey's offense, should have been able to get average results out of that group.

Thank you, this post is spot on. I was just trying to explain to 77 and others that perhaps didn't grasp the concept... that we KNEW there would be a tradeoff with our defense when we made the commitment to run the offense we run. As I've stated several times, this is not an excuse for hoe our defense played and they certainly been to get better and that starts with the DC.

Final thoughts on this in case it's still not cleat to anyone what we're talking about here. When a team makes the decision to change from running 50 plays per game to 80 plays per game, you are agreeing to give the opponent more offensive snaps. With more offensive snaps comes more points. It has nothing to do with how many points we score, although that is obviously the goal of making this change to our offense (every snap will end one of four ways. Points for the other team, giving them the ball back, points for us, or something else...gaining, losing, or staying even in yardage.) Most offensive plays result in forward progress, and eventually putting points on the board. So if you don't grasp the concept that by deciding to run 80 plays per game versus 50, you are automatically going to give the opponent more offensive snaps, which is going to lead to more points almost all the time... I don't know what to tell you.

I'm not sure the coaches KNEW how this would affect the defense until after the first run through Cali

[John K]

I think we just need to put more emphasis on creating turnovers. Give up the big plays and the long drives but when that bad pass or running back with a loose hold inevitably comes, you have to get the TO. That's how the Saints won their SB. The defense had terrible numbers statistically but they got those game changing TOs at a fairly regular rate. There was at least 10 times this season where our DBs had good coverage and because they didn't attempt to make a play on the ball it either fell harmlessly to the turf of was completed right over their heads. Turn those into 10 interceptions and its a completely different outlook at our d.

I should add though, that I agree with you completely. An average defense can be very effective, and a bad defense can be adequate, if they create lots of turnovers.

[catgrad05]

So what about this twist........ We had one of the better top in the league. What if it was less about the offense (we all agree we scored faster and moved the ball better than last year) and more about the defense not even being able to slow down an opposing offense. The defense wasn't on the feild as much because the other teams scored so fast. You can not blame that on being tired

[catsfan_769273]

Getting in the playoffs "took the bad taste out of our mouths" after getting thumped by the griz? Are you kidding me? What a joke! It's painfully obvious that Ash doesn't get it when it comes to cat griz. This lack of leadership is what we're stuck with as long as he's here. When you don't have people from Montana leading the show, this is the mentality you get.

As a coach of the cats I think It would be expected to realize the importance of cat griz. And after coaching here for 8 years or what ever it has been I would expect that the head coaching coach would understand the importance of cat griz.

[BFcatfan]

Getting in the playoffs "took the bad taste out of our mouths" after getting thumped by the griz? Are you kidding me? What a joke! It's painfully obvious that Ash doesn't get it when it comes to cat griz. This lack of leadership is what we're stuck with as long as he's here. When you don't have people from Montana leading the show, this is the mentality you get.

My dog licks his a** to get the bad taste of my wifes cooking out of his mouth.. Ash should try it...just saying. If he thinks were all satisfied because we played in a playoff game... really.. win a playoff game or two.. or lick your a** again. I'm not sure he gets it, and no i'm not on the fire ASH wagon yet.

[Cat Grad]

Getting in the playoffs "took the bad taste out of our mouths" after getting thumped by the griz? Are you kidding me? What a joke! It's painfully obvious that Ash doesn't get it when it comes to cat griz. This lack of leadership is what we're stuck with as long as he's here. When you don't have people from Montana leading the show, this is the mentality you get.

My dog licks his a** to get the bad taste of my wifes cooking out of his mouth.. Ash should try it...just saying. If he thinks were all satisfied because we played in a playoff game... really.. win a playoff game or two.. or lick your a** again. I'm not sure he gets it, and no i'm not on the fire ASH wagon yet.

Licking your dog's ass..

[LongTimeCatFan]

Getting in the playoffs "took the bad taste out of our mouths" after getting thumped by the griz? Are you kidding me? What a joke! It's painfully obvious that Ash doesn't get it when it comes to cat griz. This lack of leadership is what we're stuck with as long as he's here. When you don't have people from Montana leading the show, this is the mentality you get.

My dog licks his a** to get the bad taste of my wifes cooking out of his mouth.. Ash should try it...just saying. If he thinks were all satisfied because we played in a playoff game... really.. win a playoff game or two.. or lick your a** again. I'm not sure he gets it, and no i'm not on the fire ASH wagon yet.

Lick a dogs azz... HA! Perfect!

It's been 8 years. 8 FREAKING YEARS!

http://youtu.be/kgDORvds824

[allcat]

Getting in the playoffs "took the bad taste out of our mouths" after getting thumped by the griz? Are you kidding me? What a joke! It's painfully obvious that Ash doesn't get it when it comes to cat griz. This lack of leadership is what we're stuck with as long as he's here. When you don't have people from Montana leading the show, this is the mentality you get.

My dog licks his a** to get the bad taste of my wifes cooking out of his mouth.. Ash should try it...just saying. If he thinks were all satisfied because we played in a playoff game... really.. win a playoff game or two.. or lick your a** again. I'm not sure he gets it, and no i'm not on the fire ASH wagon yet.

Lick a dogs azz... HA! Perfect!

It's been 8 years. 8 FREAKING YEARS!

http://youtu.be/kgDORvds824

I can't believe a guy would discuss his sex life on this forum. Brave. (I probably will get in trouble for using such a racially charged word.)

[LongTimeCatFan]

Getting in the playoffs "took the bad taste out of our mouths" after getting thumped by the griz? Are you kidding me? What a joke! It's painfully obvious that Ash doesn't get it when it comes to cat griz. This lack of leadership is what we're stuck with as long as he's here. When you don't have people from Montana leading the show, this is the mentality you get.

My dog licks his a** to get the bad taste of my wifes cooking out of his mouth.. Ash should try it...just saying. If he thinks were all satisfied because we played in a playoff game... really.. win a playoff game or two.. or lick your a** again. I'm not sure he gets it, and no i'm not on the fire ASH wagon yet.

Lick a dogs azz... HA! Perfect!

It's been 8 years. 8 FREAKING YEARS!

http://youtu.be/kgDORvds824

I can't believe a guy would discuss his sex life on this forum. Brave. (I probably will get in trouble for using such a racially charged word.)

You should have been a comedian instead of a bean counter.

[allcat]

Getting in the playoffs "took the bad taste out of our mouths" after getting thumped by the griz? Are you kidding me? What a joke! It's painfully obvious that Ash doesn't get it when it comes to cat griz. This lack of leadership is what we're stuck with as long as he's here. When you don't have people from Montana leading the show, this is the mentality you get.

My dog licks his a** to get the bad taste of my wifes cooking out of his mouth.. Ash should try it...just saying. If he thinks were all satisfied because we played in a playoff game... really.. win a playoff game or two.. or lick your a** again. I'm not sure he gets it, and no i'm not on the fire ASH wagon yet.

Lick a dogs azz... HA! Perfect!

It's been 8 years. 8 FREAKING YEARS!

http://youtu.be/kgDORvds824

I can't believe a guy would discuss his sex life on this forum. Brave. (I probably will get in trouble for using such a racially charged word.)

You should have been a comedian instead of a bean counter.

I can really make those beans sing.

[BLACKnBLUEnGOLD]

I hate this little brother ******. This isn't 1996. The season doesn't end in November anymore. Success for this program is more about what happens in the postseason and less about what happens on the way there.

[LongTimeCatFan]

I hate this little brother ******. This isn't 1996. The season doesn't end in November anymore. Success for this program is more about what happens in the postseason and less about what happens on the way there.

Take your pick. Ash has only beat the Griz 2 times and has only won 2 playoff games.

[BLACKnBLUEnGOLD]

I hate this little brother ******. This isn't 1996. The season doesn't end in November anymore. Success for this program is more about what happens in the postseason and less about what happens on the way there.

Take your pick. Ash has only beat the Griz 2 times and has only won 2 playoff games.

That's true. It's also true that "only won 2 playoff games" sounding bad to us is a sign that Ash has raised the level of this program.

[Cat Grad]

I hate this little brother ******. This isn't 1996. The season doesn't end in November anymore. Success for this program is more about what happens in the postseason and less about what happens on the way there.

Take your pick. Ash has only beat the Griz 2 times and has only won 2 playoff games.

That's true. It's also true that "only won 2 playoff games" sounding bad to us is a sign that Ash has raised the level of this program.

But at times, doesn't it bother you that we've hit that plateau? One of the wins came against a team playing this weekend. I guess I'm listening to a lot of people who are saying the program is still the same as it was when he got here. Wish I could get all upset about the program but I can't. I am somewhat perplexed about the entire department. I'm excited about the possibilities for next year, however.

[CelticCat]

Yup, you all sound like losing to the Griz means the season was a waste. I'd like to think we as a fanbase have moved beyond that, that we have bigger goals than that, but I see it isn't that way for everyone.

Ash never said he was satisfied with only making the playoffs, only that making the playoffs took the sting out of losing to the Griz. I don't see what is so terrible about that statement? Some of you have such blind hatred for Ash you twist and turn his words into what you want them to say.

[catsrback76]

Yup, you all sound like losing to the Griz means the season was a waste. I'd like to think we as a fanbase have moved beyond that, that we have bigger goals than that, but I see it isn't that way for everyone.

Ash never said he was satisfied with only making the playoffs, only that making the playoffs took the sting out of losing to the Griz. I don't see what is so terrible about that statement? Some of you have such blind hatred for Ash you twist and turn his words into what you want them to say.

I think the issue of the griz loss and Ash has to do with the fact that he has not communicated about it well at all. His comments leading into the game were, "it's just another game", which it isn't! His comments after the game were, "we'll have to look at the tape"... and that is always coach-speak!

If he would simply do the Kramer... "we got our asses handed to us, and a lot of this lands on our coaching decisions..." I think people would be a whole lot quieter about the um game. But, because he really fails at communicating in a way that inspires honest reactions, people wonder at what is truly going on with him. IMO

[LongTimeCatFan]

Yup, you all sound like losing to the Griz means the season was a waste. I'd like to think we as a fanbase have moved beyond that, that we have bigger goals than that, but I see it isn't that way for everyone.

Ash never said he was satisfied with only making the playoffs, only that making the playoffs took the sting out of losing to the Griz. I don't see what is so terrible about that statement? Some of you have such blind hatred for Ash you twist and turn his words into what you want them to say.

It's not blind and it not hatred. I've given several reasons several times about why I'd like a change. I think a lot of people are just plain pissed. Pissed about "Its just another game" with a performance that matches it. Pissed about throwing McGhee under the bus after everything he did for the program and the University. But ultimately it's a culmination of poor decisions and bad team management that make us believe we've hit a plateau.

And if you don't think the Cat Griz game is a big deal, you're just kidding yourself. You know better than that.

[77matcat]

Atac

In short the summary is if the offense runs more series (not necessarily plays) the other offense will also will have the ball more times (rules, rules, rules) thus, giving them an opportunity to score more.

A poor defense or one that plays bend and bend will be on the field more minutes. A good defense may be on the field more series but not necessarily more time than the average defense.

No debating. Pretty much what I have been saying.

What is getting old is folks seeming to justify our poor defensive performance because of our up tempo spread offense. Just is not the case.


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