Does Ash have the guts to fire Jamie Marshall?

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blueandgoldblitz
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Re: Does Ash have the guts to fire Jamie Marshall?

Post by blueandgoldblitz » Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:33 pm

Bobcat Jim wrote:
Cat_gld wrote:This speaks well for the man! I wish Marshall this kind of success.

http://www.thonline.com/mobile_new/news ... 8da0f.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Here or at some high school?
Anywhere else



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Re: Does Ash have the guts to fire Jamie Marshall?

Post by Cat_gld » Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:35 pm

Bobcat Jim wrote:
Cat_gld wrote:This speaks well for the man! I wish Marshall this kind of success.

http://www.thonline.com/mobile_new/news ... 8da0f.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Here or at some high school?
Here, if that were possible, but I was thinking high school. I'm thinking MSU-Northern will be looking for a coach.



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Re: Does Ash have the guts to fire Jamie Marshall?

Post by blueandgoldblitz » Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:49 pm

Cat_gld wrote:
Bobcat Jim wrote:
Cat_gld wrote:This speaks well for the man! I wish Marshall this kind of success.

http://www.thonline.com/mobile_new/news ... 8da0f.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Here or at some high school?
Here, if that were possible, but I was thinking high school. I'm thinking MSU-Northern will be looking for a coach.
The Griz are looking for a coach...



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Re: Does Ash have the guts to fire Jamie Marshall?

Post by Common Cat » Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:39 pm

So what is frustrating is the parallel that I can see being a teacher. First let me preface, I've never met Jamie Marshall and I'll give him a benefit of a doubt that is rooted in my trust that Ash can assemble a staff of decent coaches. Although, I've heard that players are upset with Marshall's defense and don't like playing for him...so there is that. Basically its varied degrees of separation that I base my evaluation of Marshall on. To me, to see someone consistently use a go-to scheme or whatever you want to call it (in this case base defense), without the flexibility to alter-change or completely scrap it if it fails, clearly demonstrates the ineptitude to have self reflection and grow as a individual and this case a coach. It is a like a tenured teacher who uses the same lessons, the same crappy discipline, whose students end up hating in the end. But they don't change, because "its worked before, and it'll work again" and they know they have the union (in this case Ash) backing them up. All the while, the entire staff knows they are dead weight, the administrator has a hell of time firing them because of the union, and who gets the worse of it...you guessed, the kids!!! Yes your kids. If you don't see how this relates to Ash, Marshall, and players, well I can't help you.


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Re: Does Ash have the guts to fire Jamie Marshall?

Post by LongTimeCatFan » Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:42 pm

Common Cat wrote:So what is frustrating is the parallel that I can see being a teacher. First let me preface, I've never met Jamie Marshall and I'll give him a benefit of a doubt that is rooted in my trust that Ash can assemble a staff of decent coaches. Although, I've heard that players are upset with Marshall's defense and don't like playing for him...so there is that. Basically its varied degrees of separation that I base my evaluation of Marshall on. To me, to see someone consistently use a go-to scheme or whatever you want to call it (in this case base defense), without the flexibility to alter-change or completely scrap it if it fails, clearly demonstrates the ineptitude to have self reflection and grow as a individual and this case a coach. It is a like a tenured teacher who uses the same lessons, the same crappy discipline, whose students end up hating in the end. But they don't change, because "its worked before, and it'll work again" and they know they have the union (in this case Ash) backing them up. All the while, the entire staff knows they are dead weight, the administrator has a hell of time firing them because of the union, and who gets the worse of it...you guessed, the kids!!! Yes your kids. If you don't see how this relates to Ash, Marshall, and players, well I can't help you.
That's a pretty good analogy.



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Re: Does Ash have the guts to fire Jamie Marshall?

Post by CelticCat » Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:56 pm

77matcat wrote:
91catAlum wrote:
91catAlum wrote:
John K wrote:
catdaddy7 wrote:
John K wrote:
Bobcat80 wrote:Maybe page 9 of a thread isn't the best place to ask this question, but I don't think a new subject is warranted at this point. As long as we're bashing on Marshall, here goes. Something I noticed throughout the game on Saturday was the fact that our db's rarely turned their heads around on pass plays. In fact, I've noticed this a lot through the years. I know it's not always possible, but I saw a lot of passes that very easily could have been knocked down on Saturday just by simply turning the head around. Many were on 3rd down as well. Is this something that falls on Marshall and/or Brandon North as well; or is it simply that the players aren't thinking about proper technique on the field? I apologize if this has been discussed on another thread.
Not to mention that if there is contact on the play, the defender will be far more likely to get flagged for PI, if he isn't looking for the ball.
Part of this may be blamed on pure athleticism and speed. It's harder to run fast with your head turned,,,, really try it. The other thing that's over simplified
is knowing when to turn your head. Turn too soon and the receiver jukes on you and your jock strap ends up in 12th row so the safest plan on say a fly route
is to key on the receiver.
Fair enough. I'm sure that knowing exactly when to take your eyes off the receiver and look for the ball is not as easy as it looks, but it seems like most other teams do a better job in teaching that skill to their DB's, than MSU has done during the Ash/Marshall era, and our relatively low number of INT would seem to verify that.
Actually it isn't all that hard. When the receiver turns his head back to look for the ball, you turn yours too.
I don't mean to make light of it. Yes you do need to be a good athlete to be running full speed, watching the receiver, and turn your head and quickly locate the football right when the receiver does. But you don't need ESP either.

Yup. Been saying this for years. Our corners an safeties drive me nuts. Or maybe nuttier. Did someone earlier say we coach them to not look for ball when receiver does???? That would be real weird but would explain why no one seems to do what is a natural reaction for that position.

Man up and bump. Takes receivers out of their routes and are closer to line of scrimmage for run D.

Best athletes on the team usually are corners/safeties. Need combo of speed, athletisizem (sp) and ability/affinity to blast folks. Only position more fun to play than corner is free safety.


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At the beginning of the high school school season in one of our referee meetings, we talked about how coaches are really teaching kids NOT to look for the ball - you play the hands. As soon as you see the receiver bring his hands up, you react. We talked about it because you have to keep a sharp eye out for what constitutes PI.

I thought it worth passing that information along - I can't imagine it is much different here than the rest of the country, so it seems like there is a push to teach kids to not turn around for the ball, but the play the receiver's hands. Kupp is an expert at leaving his hands down until the last second before he makes a catch, just one of the many things he is very good at.


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Re: Does Ash have the guts to fire Jamie Marshall?

Post by HelenaCat95 » Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:05 pm

CelticCat wrote:
77matcat wrote:
91catAlum wrote:
91catAlum wrote:
John K wrote:
catdaddy7 wrote:
John K wrote:
Bobcat80 wrote:Maybe page 9 of a thread isn't the best place to ask this question, but I don't think a new subject is warranted at this point. As long as we're bashing on Marshall, here goes. Something I noticed throughout the game on Saturday was the fact that our db's rarely turned their heads around on pass plays. In fact, I've noticed this a lot through the years. I know it's not always possible, but I saw a lot of passes that very easily could have been knocked down on Saturday just by simply turning the head around. Many were on 3rd down as well. Is this something that falls on Marshall and/or Brandon North as well; or is it simply that the players aren't thinking about proper technique on the field? I apologize if this has been discussed on another thread.
Not to mention that if there is contact on the play, the defender will be far more likely to get flagged for PI, if he isn't looking for the ball.
Part of this may be blamed on pure athleticism and speed. It's harder to run fast with your head turned,,,, really try it. The other thing that's over simplified
is knowing when to turn your head. Turn too soon and the receiver jukes on you and your jock strap ends up in 12th row so the safest plan on say a fly route
is to key on the receiver.
Fair enough. I'm sure that knowing exactly when to take your eyes off the receiver and look for the ball is not as easy as it looks, but it seems like most other teams do a better job in teaching that skill to their DB's, than MSU has done during the Ash/Marshall era, and our relatively low number of INT would seem to verify that.
Actually it isn't all that hard. When the receiver turns his head back to look for the ball, you turn yours too.
I don't mean to make light of it. Yes you do need to be a good athlete to be running full speed, watching the receiver, and turn your head and quickly locate the football right when the receiver does. But you don't need ESP either.

Yup. Been saying this for years. Our corners an safeties drive me nuts. Or maybe nuttier. Did someone earlier say we coach them to not look for ball when receiver does???? That would be real weird but would explain why no one seems to do what is a natural reaction for that position.

Man up and bump. Takes receivers out of their routes and are closer to line of scrimmage for run D.

Best athletes on the team usually are corners/safeties. Need combo of speed, athletisizem (sp) and ability/affinity to blast folks. Only position more fun to play than corner is free safety.


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At the beginning of the high school school season in one of our referee meetings, we talked about how coaches are really teaching kids NOT to look for the ball - you play the hands. As soon as you see the receiver bring his hands up, you react. We talked about it because you have to keep a sharp eye out for what constitutes PI.

I thought it worth passing that information along - I can't imagine it is much different here than the rest of the country, so it seems like there is a push to teach kids to not turn around for the ball, but the play the receiver's hands. Kupp is an expert at leaving his hands down until the last second before he makes a catch, just one of the many things he is very good at.
You are absolutely right....with one addition - the eyes. When DBs see the eyes followed by the hands go up, they then react to the ball. For some techniques/coverage it means turn your head around. For other techniques/coverages it means swipe at the hands.



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Re: Does Ash have the guts to fire Jamie Marshall?

Post by Cat Grad » Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:50 pm

LongTimeCatFan wrote:
Common Cat wrote:So what is frustrating is the parallel that I can see being a teacher. First let me preface, I've never met Jamie Marshall and I'll give him a benefit of a doubt that is rooted in my trust that Ash can assemble a staff of decent coaches. Although, I've heard that players are upset with Marshall's defense and don't like playing for him...so there is that. Basically its varied degrees of separation that I base my evaluation of Marshall on. To me, to see someone consistently use a go-to scheme or whatever you want to call it (in this case base defense), without the flexibility to alter-change or completely scrap it if it fails, clearly demonstrates the ineptitude to have self reflection and grow as a individual and this case a coach. It is a like a tenured teacher who uses the same lessons, the same crappy discipline, whose students end up hating in the end. But they don't change, because "its worked before, and it'll work again" and they know they have the union (in this case Ash) backing them up. All the while, the entire staff knows they are dead weight, the administrator has a hell of time firing them because of the union, and who gets the worse of it...you guessed, the kids!!! Yes your kids. If you don't see how this relates to Ash, Marshall, and players, well I can't help you.
That's a pretty good analogy.
---you forgot to state: "But I expect better from you" or to provide an example. There's always room for improvement, even while we are being an arm chair critic of arm chair critics. Try again.



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Re: Does Ash have the guts to fire Jamie Marshall?

Post by allcat » Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:29 pm

Cat Grad wrote:
LongTimeCatFan wrote:
Common Cat wrote:So what is frustrating is the parallel that I can see being a teacher. First let me preface, I've never met Jamie Marshall and I'll give him a benefit of a doubt that is rooted in my trust that Ash can assemble a staff of decent coaches. Although, I've heard that players are upset with Marshall's defense and don't like playing for him...so there is that. Basically its varied degrees of separation that I base my evaluation of Marshall on. To me, to see someone consistently use a go-to scheme or whatever you want to call it (in this case base defense), without the flexibility to alter-change or completely scrap it if it fails, clearly demonstrates the ineptitude to have self reflection and grow as a individual and this case a coach. It is a like a tenured teacher who uses the same lessons, the same crappy discipline, whose students end up hating in the end. But they don't change, because "its worked before, and it'll work again" and they know they have the union (in this case Ash) backing them up. All the while, the entire staff knows they are dead weight, the administrator has a hell of time firing them because of the union, and who gets the worse of it...you guessed, the kids!!! Yes your kids. If you don't see how this relates to Ash, Marshall, and players, well I can't help you.
That's a pretty good analogy.
---you forgot to state: "But I expect better from you" or to provide an example. There's always room for improvement, even while we are being an arm chair critic of arm chair critics. Try again.
So a teacher tells another teacher to redo his paper, because he does not agree with what is written. I had an English prof make me rewrite a paper on Russell Means because she did not agree with my analysis.


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Re: Does Ash have the guts to fire Jamie Marshall?

Post by 77matcat » Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:15 pm

CelticCat wrote:
77matcat wrote:
91catAlum wrote:
91catAlum wrote:
John K wrote:
catdaddy7 wrote:
John K wrote:
Bobcat80 wrote:Maybe page 9 of a thread isn't the best place to ask this question, but I don't think a new subject is warranted at this point. As long as we're bashing on Marshall, here goes. Something I noticed throughout the game on Saturday was the fact that our db's rarely turned their heads around on pass plays. In fact, I've noticed this a lot through the years. I know it's not always possible, but I saw a lot of passes that very easily could have been knocked down on Saturday just by simply turning the head around. Many were on 3rd down as well. Is this something that falls on Marshall and/or Brandon North as well; or is it simply that the players aren't thinking about proper technique on the field? I apologize if this has been discussed on another thread.
Not to mention that if there is contact on the play, the defender will be far more likely to get flagged for PI, if he isn't looking for the ball.
Part of this may be blamed on pure athleticism and speed. It's harder to run fast with your head turned,,,, really try it. The other thing that's over simplified
is knowing when to turn your head. Turn too soon and the receiver jukes on you and your jock strap ends up in 12th row so the safest plan on say a fly route
is to key on the receiver.
Fair enough. I'm sure that knowing exactly when to take your eyes off the receiver and look for the ball is not as easy as it looks, but it seems like most other teams do a better job in teaching that skill to their DB's, than MSU has done during the Ash/Marshall era, and our relatively low number of INT would seem to verify that.
Actually it isn't all that hard. When the receiver turns his head back to look for the ball, you turn yours too.
I don't mean to make light of it. Yes you do need to be a good athlete to be running full speed, watching the receiver, and turn your head and quickly locate the football right when the receiver does. But you don't need ESP either.

Yup. Been saying this for years. Our corners an safeties drive me nuts. Or maybe nuttier. Did someone earlier say we coach them to not look for ball when receiver does???? That would be real weird but would explain why no one seems to do what is a natural reaction for that position.

Man up and bump. Takes receivers out of their routes and are closer to line of scrimmage for run D.

Best athletes on the team usually are corners/safeties. Need combo of speed, athletisizem (sp) and ability/affinity to blast folks. Only position more fun to play than corner is free safety.


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At the beginning of the high school school season in one of our referee meetings, we talked about how coaches are really teaching kids NOT to look for the ball - you play the hands. As soon as you see the receiver bring his hands up, you react. We talked about it because you have to keep a sharp eye out for what constitutes PI.

I thought it worth passing that information along - I can't imagine it is much different here than the rest of the country, so it seems like there is a push to teach kids to not turn around for the ball, but the play the receiver's hands. Kupp is an expert at leaving his hands down until the last second before he makes a catch, just one of the many things he is very good at.
Thanks for the info. So if I understand correctly the intent of this style is at best to break up the pass. Is that right?? When you don't turn to look for the ball you'll never intercept a ball even if it hits you in the back. You may not get a PI but maybe face guarding.

Think it is a poor option that you use when you believe your athletes can't compete.


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Re: Does Ash have the guts to fire Jamie Marshall?

Post by saintcat40 » Sun Dec 14, 2014 12:58 pm

I have to admit I get on the board every day hoping to read that we are getting a new defensive coordinator. Ash was saying that we need amazing players to be good on defense, while in the same article saying those players only come along every once in awhile. That doesn't leave me very hopeful. I understand that there will always be a yearly ebb and flow to the team based on talent, but we are in a steady decline. This isn't all about lack of talent. The coaches have to take some responsibility. Can we please get a new defensive coordinator? One who has the heart of a champion? Kane Ioane comes to mind.



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Re: Does Ash have the guts to fire Jamie Marshall?

Post by MSUcantouchus » Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:46 pm

That's funny I keep checking hoping to see a new D coordinator too.


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Re: Does Ash have the guts to fire Jamie Marshall?

Post by Monarch cat » Sun Dec 14, 2014 6:32 pm

I wish I would see new DC also!


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Re: Does Ash have the guts to fire Jamie Marshall?

Post by 77matcat » Sun Dec 14, 2014 11:02 pm

All I want for Christmas is a new DC.


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Re: Does Ash have the guts to fire Jamie Marshall?

Post by LongTimeCatFan » Sun Dec 14, 2014 11:06 pm

77matcat wrote:All I want for Christmas is a new DC.


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Me too. Id get excited about Bobcat football again.

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Re: Does Ash have the guts to fire Jamie Marshall?

Post by catsfan_769273 » Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:14 am

catdaddy7 wrote:
John K wrote:
Bobcat80 wrote:Maybe page 9 of a thread isn't the best place to ask this question, but I don't think a new subject is warranted at this point. As long as we're bashing on Marshall, here goes. Something I noticed throughout the game on Saturday was the fact that our db's rarely turned their heads around on pass plays. In fact, I've noticed this a lot through the years. I know it's not always possible, but I saw a lot of passes that very easily could have been knocked down on Saturday just by simply turning the head around. Many were on 3rd down as well. Is this something that falls on Marshall and/or Brandon North as well; or is it simply that the players aren't thinking about proper technique on the field? I apologize if this has been discussed on another thread.
Not to mention that if there is contact on the play, the defender will be far more likely to get flagged for PI, if he isn't looking for the ball.
Part of this may be blamed on pure athleticism and speed. It's harder to run fast with your head turned,,,, really try it. The other thing that's over simplified
is knowing when to turn your head. Turn too soon and the receiver jukes on you and your jock strap ends up in 12th row so the safest plan on say a fly route
is to key on the receiver.
I am taught to take peeks as I am covering a receiver and when a do sees the ball you use your hand to track the receiver and find the ball. And yes it is hard to run and look back and keep on the receiver but that is why it takes a good athlete to be a good DB. The best way to get better coverage and more break ups is to jam at the line. It allows the DB to stay on one receiver and shut him down a good defensive coordinator will determine who he thinks is the best receiver and put his best DB on him.



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