Cat-Griz mystery

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Re: Cat-Griz mystery

Post by [cat_bracket] » Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:29 pm

grizatwork wrote:Because they hid their signals from the crowd and the other team they cheated 3 years ago? If they were afraid the story was going to break before the game, why didn't it break after the game? I don't have any proof they didn't cheat, but you don't have any that they did either. Remember, just because you are paranoid, it doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. :roll:
I'd like to hear your take on the data. You usually have good comments.



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Re: Cat-Griz mystery

Post by GRZZ » Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:48 pm

This is crazy.

A) If anyone, a coach, a player, a fan, an administrator, had ANY legitimate proof of signals being stolen, it would have made the news. Why would they sit on it? Why wouldn't they even anonymously tell the Chronicle or even Coulter? A chance to further embarrass their biggest rival when they were already going through a bunch of turmoil... Come on guys. You can't be serious. If there was any merit to this, it would be news.

B) If all of the conspiracy theories are true, and as is being implied in this thread, the Griz steal MSU's signals every time they play, that is your coaches fault. Seriously. If Ash legitimately thought the Griz were stealing his signs, he should have changed them up...teams change their signals all the time. It isn't that complicated.


“I think I've heard every coach that's coached against the Grizzlies this year sit up here and say, ‘You know, we're better than those guys, and we can beat those guys,' ” said Kramer. “You know what? The truth is you ain't. So shut. The heck. Up.

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Re: Cat-Griz mystery

Post by Helcat72 » Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:52 pm

......but what if a mole is giving them our game plan so that every offensive formation/shift is perfectly countered by the defensive alignment..........whooooooooooo sh÷#/&t


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Re: Cat-Griz mystery

Post by Cat Grad » Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:55 pm

Being able to steal signs is not against any rules and understanding a team's tendency is not either.. It's up to the coaches and players to mask them. Nothing illegal about it. Baldwin's staff has to be the best in the conference.



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Re: Cat-Griz mystery

Post by [cat_bracket] » Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:57 pm

GRZZ wrote:This is crazy.

A) If anyone, a coach, a player, a fan, an administrator, had ANY legitimate proof of signals being stolen, it would have made the news. Why would they sit on it? Why wouldn't they even anonymously tell the Chronicle or even Coulter? A chance to further embarrass their biggest rival when they were already going through a bunch of turmoil... Come on guys. You can't be serious. If there was any merit to this, it would be news.

B) If all of the conspiracy theories are true, and as is being implied in this thread, the Griz steal MSU's signals every time they play, that is your coaches fault. Seriously. If Ash legitimately thought the Griz were stealing his signs, he should have changed them up...teams change their signals all the time. It isn't that complicated.
What's your take on the data I provided? Is um just a bad matchup for MSU? Is MSU just tight? Is it just a coincidence? I'm interested in hearing anyone's explanation.



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Re: Cat-Griz mystery

Post by canyoncat » Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:19 pm

[cat_bracket] wrote:
GRZZ wrote:This is crazy.

A) If anyone, a coach, a player, a fan, an administrator, had ANY legitimate proof of signals being stolen, it would have made the news. Why would they sit on it? Why wouldn't they even anonymously tell the Chronicle or even Coulter? A chance to further embarrass their biggest rival when they were already going through a bunch of turmoil... Come on guys. You can't be serious. If there was any merit to this, it would be news.

B) If all of the conspiracy theories are true, and as is being implied in this thread, the Griz steal MSU's signals every time they play, that is your coaches fault. Seriously. If Ash legitimately thought the Griz were stealing his signs, he should have changed them up...teams change their signals all the time. It isn't that complicated.
What's your take on the data I provided? Is um just a bad matchup for MSU? Is MSU just tight? Is it just a coincidence? I'm interested in hearing anyone's explanation.
I really think it is simple. Watch the players on the griz and watch ours. There seems to be way more fire on the griz side than ours. Not sure if that is the product of how Ash wants his team to be "business like" or not. It is so ingrained on the griz side to come out and just punch the Cats in the mouth and to absolutely destroy the Cats. It isn't just a game to them like it seems to us or our coaches. I can't imagine what guys like Ioane and Rider are thinking while that was going on or former players watching. I am not trying to say that the Cats show no emotion, but it just seems the griz always come out like their hair is on fire looking for someone to just kill. To me football is a game of emotion, especially rivalry games and playoff games when the intensity is naturally a lot higher.

Anyway, GO CATS!!! BEAT THE WABBITS!!


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Re: Cat-Griz mystery

Post by Mr Lisle » Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:23 pm

mslacatfan wrote:
[cat_bracket] wrote:This is a great thread. It probably goes too deep for most of our posters, but the numbers are flat out staggering. Below is a list of what um was allowing in points and total yards going into Cat-grizz and what they held us to, along with what we were averaging.

2014
grizz avg points allowed 22, held MSU to 7, MSU was averaging 41. um +15, MSU -34
grizz avg yards allowed 375, held MSU to 314, MSU was averaging 495. um +61, MSU -181

2013
grizz allow 25, MSU scores 14, MSU averaged 34. um +11, MSU -20
grizz allow 370, MSU gets 272, MSU averaged 425. um +98, MSU -153

2012
grizz allow 27, MSU scores 16, MSU avg 35. um +11, MSU -19
grizz allow 385, MSU gains 354, MSU avg 415. um +31, MSU -61

2011
grizz allow 21, MSU scores 10, MSU avg 33. um +11, MSU -23
grizz allow 330, MSU gains 250, MSU avg 430. um +80, MSU -180

2010
grizz allow 22, MSU scores 21, MSU avg 34. um +1, MSU -13
grizz allow 290, MSU gains 318*, MSU avg 460. um -28, MSU -142

*we lost 40 yards of offense on a bad snap that went for a safety. With that um would be +12 and MSU would be -182.

wow! when you look at it like that, it is pretty eye opening..... WTF? Even though we won a couple of those games, it is safe to say that the Griz just seem to make Coach Ash their bitch.
Maybe we're not going back far enough. For instance in 1899 Coach Adams took his Bobcats to Missoula and destroyed the griz 38-0 without throwing a single forward pass. And also, not one single CAT wore a face mask or a jockstrap!! :-^



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Re: Cat-Griz mystery

Post by Jobu » Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:26 pm

#-o

This thread is sad.

The Griz didn't cheat, and anyone who suggests that's why we lost any of those games is simply embarrassing themselves. As for hiding signals, every team in America does that in one form or fashion. Ever see a coach hold their play chart in front of their mouth when they give a play? Why do they do that? Ever seen a team with 4 or 5 guys signaling in plays? Why do they do that? Ever seen a team hold up 3 or 4 different signs with ridiculously random and seemingly meaningless photos? Why do you think they do that?

Here's my take: The Griz are just often better than the Cats. That's why they win. And they also do something each and every year that we seemingly can never accomplish: they get better as the year progresses. Let's stop with the whiney-assed excuses and address the real issues.

And let's go beat SDSU.


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Re: Cat-Griz mystery

Post by grizatwork » Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:28 pm

[cat_bracket] wrote:
grizatwork wrote:Because they hid their signals from the crowd and the other team they cheated 3 years ago? If they were afraid the story was going to break before the game, why didn't it break after the game? I don't have any proof they didn't cheat, but you don't have any that they did either. Remember, just because you are paranoid, it doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. :roll:
I'd like to hear your take on the data. You usually have good comments.
That data is very interesting. It makes me think that we should have won the last 5 games. I think that we could have if we hadn't been in a couple of crappy transition years. I think it matchups combined with the importance of the game. Our D front tends to match up well with your O line. This year, it was all about turnovers. A few years ago, the weather was so bad that no one was moving the ball very well. Each game is different and presents it's own matchups. If we do have a line on your play calls, then the coaches should be ashamed they didn't change things. I don't buy it because of different coordinators you guys have had.



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Re: Cat-Griz mystery

Post by grizatwork » Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:32 pm

Jobu wrote:#-o

This thread is sad.

The Griz didn't cheat, and anyone who suggests that's why we lost any of those games is simply embarrassing themselves. As for hiding signals, every team in America does that in one form or fashion. Ever see a coach hold their play chart in front of their mouth when they give a play? Why do they do that? Ever seen a team with 4 or 5 guys signaling in plays? Why do they do that? Ever seen a team hold up 3 or 4 different signs with ridiculously random and seemingly meaningless photos? Why do you think they do that?

Here's my take: The Griz are just often better than the Cats. That's why they win. And they also do something each and every year that we seemingly can never accomplish: they get better as the year progresses. Let's stop with the whiney-assed excuses and address the real issues.

And let's go beat SDSU.
That is a good point. In general, we do seem to get better in November while the Cats have not. I would be curious as to why you guys think that is. I don't have a reason for it. I used to think it was the depth we had to cover for injuries, but we are pretty depleted this year and the cat's depth is the best it has ever been.



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Re: Cat-Griz mystery

Post by Helcat72 » Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:42 pm

We have depth at some positions, but also none at some crucial ones, especially in the secondary and at receiver because of all the early injuries. The other fact is that we don't rotate defensive players as much as the Griz...thus our first team players are more nicked up and less productive by the time Cat -Griz comes along. I wonder what would happen if we played the game in September?


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Re: Cat-Griz mystery

Post by BelgradeBobcat » Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:44 pm

I think there are many factors.

Maybe the biggest factor, and the reason why teams like the griz seem to get stronger while MSU has seemed to plateau and fall off is depth or lack thereof. I don't think our program at this point has developed the depth that they have. The game is now always at the end of the season when guys are banged up. So how far you go depends on your back ups.

Hopefully we're building it-I think we are on the offensive side of the ball, but on defense we just lost so many guys to injury that should be playing that it has really hurt us.

That's one of my theories anyway. I have others, but I should probably keep those to myself.



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Re: Cat-Griz mystery

Post by mslacatfan » Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:45 pm

Isn't it obvious... Colter is a grizzly spy, and is responsible for the loss.





This thread..................... ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)


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Re: Cat-Griz mystery

Post by [cat_bracket] » Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:53 pm

grizatwork wrote:
[cat_bracket] wrote:
grizatwork wrote:Because they hid their signals from the crowd and the other team they cheated 3 years ago? If they were afraid the story was going to break before the game, why didn't it break after the game? I don't have any proof they didn't cheat, but you don't have any that they did either. Remember, just because you are paranoid, it doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. :roll:
I'd like to hear your take on the data. You usually have good comments.
That data is very interesting. It makes me think that we should have won the last 5 games. I think that we could have if we hadn't been in a couple of crappy transition years. I think it matchups combined with the importance of the game. Our D front tends to match up well with your O line. This year, it was all about turnovers. A few years ago, the weather was so bad that no one was moving the ball very well. Each game is different and presents it's own matchups. If we do have a line on your play calls, then the coaches should be ashamed they didn't change things. I don't buy it because of different coordinators you guys have had.
So if I asked you before the game, right after MSU gained 568 vs ISU on a 7 degree day, where you think MSU would rank out of the 12 teams you played you'd put them in the bottom half? Of the FCS teams um played only UND had less yards than MSU. Do you think MSU has the second worst offense that um faced this year?
Poly 528
NDSU 475
So. Utah 472 ( a week before MSU)
EWU 461
UCD 394
UNC 356 (w/3rd string QB)
Sac 356
SoDak 317
MSU 314
UND 241



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Re: Cat-Griz mystery

Post by [cat_bracket] » Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:56 pm

mslacatfan wrote:Isn't it obvious... Colter is a grizzly spy, and is responsible for the loss.





This thread..................... ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)
If you simply choose the easy way out and just read the cheating posts the thread is dumb. As I figured this is too deep for most posters on this board.



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Re: Cat-Griz mystery

Post by [cat_bracket] » Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:58 pm

BelgradeBobcat wrote:I think there are many factors.

Maybe the biggest factor, and the reason why teams like the griz seem to get stronger while MSU has seemed to plateau and fall off is depth or lack thereof. I don't think our program at this point has developed the depth that they have. The game is now always at the end of the season when guys are banged up. So how far you go depends on your back ups.

Hopefully we're building it-I think we are on the offensive side of the ball, but on defense we just lost so many guys to injury that should be playing that it has really hurt us.

That's one of my theories anyway. I have others, but I should probably keep those to myself.
We just gained 560 in 7 degree temps the week before. Of the ten FCS teams um played they held us to the second least yards they allowed all year. It isn't depth.



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Re: Cat-Griz mystery

Post by Jobu » Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:01 pm

Do you think MSU has the second worst offense that um faced this year?
I don't know how anyone could think that. But sometimes football is about match-ups. I know we've been saying all year that UM's defense isn't as good as the Griz fans have been saying. But you know what? Their D-line is damn DAMN good, and our O-Line didn't match up. We also had little to no run game, and we got behind early and had to become one dimensional.


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Re: Cat-Griz mystery

Post by grizatwork » Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:09 pm

[cat_bracket] wrote:
grizatwork wrote:
[cat_bracket] wrote:
grizatwork wrote:Because they hid their signals from the crowd and the other team they cheated 3 years ago? If they were afraid the story was going to break before the game, why didn't it break after the game? I don't have any proof they didn't cheat, but you don't have any that they did either. Remember, just because you are paranoid, it doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. :roll:
I'd like to hear your take on the data. You usually have good comments.
That data is very interesting. It makes me think that we should have won the last 5 games. I think that we could have if we hadn't been in a couple of crappy transition years. I think it matchups combined with the importance of the game. Our D front tends to match up well with your O line. This year, it was all about turnovers. A few years ago, the weather was so bad that no one was moving the ball very well. Each game is different and presents it's own matchups. If we do have a line on your play calls, then the coaches should be ashamed they didn't change things. I don't buy it because of different coordinators you guys have had.
So if I asked you before the game, right after MSU gained 568 vs ISU on a 7 degree day, where you think MSU would rank out of the 12 teams you played you'd put them in the bottom half? Of the FCS teams um played only UND had less yards than MSU. Do you think MSU has the second worst offense that um faced this year?
Poly 528
NDSU 475
So. Utah 472 ( a week before MSU)
EWU 461
UCD 394
UNC 356 (w/3rd string QB)
Sac 356
SoDak 317
MSU 314
UND 241
I was talking to some people this week and before the game and figured the griz would not score enough points to win and the cats would win by about 10 or more. The wild card is the emotion of the cat/griz and the turnovers. In reality, 7 turnovers should be more than 34 points. I think if were a better offensive team this year it would have been. 7 turnovers against EWU would have gotten you crushed. I thought this year was an aberration because of the turnovers, but those stats show a pattern. I don't have a solid answer for you.



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Re: Cat-Griz mystery

Post by Cat Grad » Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:14 pm

I don't have a solid answer for you.
Well darn, what good are you? If you're not the solution, then you're the problem...and your school is a problem for ours.



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Re: Cat-Griz mystery

Post by [cat_bracket] » Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:15 pm

Jobu wrote:
Do you think MSU has the second worst offense that um faced this year?
I don't know how anyone could think that. But sometimes football is about match-ups. I know we've been saying all year that UM's defense isn't as good as the Griz fans have been saying. But you know what? Their D-line is damn DAMN good, and our O-Line didn't match up. We also had little to no run game, and we got behind early and had to become one dimensional.
I don't think its a coincidence that um D has done better against us than it does against just about everyone else over the last five years and our O does worse against them than just about everyone else, especially considering their D isn't always that great and our O is usually averaging 450+ per game.



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