"Ash never wins the big games"

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Common Cat
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Re: "Ash never wins the big games"

Post by Common Cat » Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:46 pm

083190 wrote:Love Ash or hate him, it is safe to say his teams have been unsuccessful in big games more often than not, While for the most part, he has done what he was hired to do, his record in "big games" illustrates that by any measure he has not "over-achieved". Good person, Average game coach.
I agree with this post. Even my wife, an objective fan, who thankfully has put up with me during bobcat seasons for the past three years said to me, "Shouldn't this be partly on Ash? The Cats seem to lose big games at the end of the year." I could only agree with her. I think her other comment was, "Maybe Ash has hit his ceiling." Our recruiting while he has been here has been better. I like how he has built the team with high school grads, rather than the JC route. However, history has repeated itself again. Year in and year out, same story. I wonder if Ash could use a fresh start somewhere else? It appears we could use some different strategies for how we approach big games. Personally, I'm a little tired of the "its just another game" mentality. There is one thing for being level headed, its another to be prepared and hyped knowing you can win and dominate. We have been more aggressive this year, and to get over this late season hump, we will need to be even more so. Treat big games as big games.


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Re: "Ash never wins the big games"

Post by Gustofer » Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:00 pm

Here's the thing about Ash as a coach in my amateur opinion:

Take a look at the griz or EWU or pretty much any other decent team. They all start pretty good, but rusty. As the season goes on, they hone their edges, learn from their mistakes, make the right adjustments, and...get better...as a team. And, they have a desire to WIN as the season ends because they believe that they can WIN and go deep into the playoffs (whether they actually can or not).

Name once that we have seen that pattern under eight years of Ash (or hell, for the last 30 years for that matter). Nope, not us. We start out pretty good, get a little better, and stay there. Year after year after year. That is not the players, as they rotate in and out every couple of years and we honestly have championship caliber players. So, if its not the players, then who's left?



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Re: "Ash never wins the big games"

Post by FTG06' » Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:29 am

77matcat wrote:We played like it's another game. Griz played like it was Cat Griz game


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I agree with this. I don't like that Ash preaches "it's just another game" because it isn't. Never has been. When Ash decides to leave, I hope there is a Montana native who applies for the job.


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Re:

Post by WetWaderMT » Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:15 am

FTG06' wrote:
77matcat wrote:We played like it's another game. Griz played like it was Cat Griz game


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I agree with this. I don't like that Ash preaches "it's just another game" because it isn't. Never has been. When Ash decides to leave, I hope there is a Montana native who applies for the job.


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MSU won't hire a Montana native...look at their hiring at EVERY high level position on campus! The mentality is, "we have to pay more for out-of-staters to come here and bring their experience/worldliness/enlightened opinions and ideas, because Montanan's aren't as cultured." And, we have to pay them more. I've heard it 100s of times, "That's what we have to do to get 'them' to come here." Then, these same people turn around and brag about how awesome Bozeman and MSU are...but, wait, if the town and University are so awesome, shouldn't we be able to pay them less, especially when they don't have any experience at the position they're accepting? Everyone else who works at MSU, and in most of Bozeman, has to be paid less than the 5/7/15 state average and is supposed to "eat the scenery" why shouldn't they and why wouldn't they want to? To the "elites" (I'm talking about the hiring committee chairs and administration) Montanan's aren't "diverse" enough, don't have enough "experience," and aren't capable of running such important and intricate systems/departments/programs. No Montanan is qualified for these positions. Its Jonathan Gruber syndrome at the state level!



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Re: "Ash never wins the big games"

Post by FTG06' » Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:17 am

WetWaderMT wrote:
FTG06' wrote:
77matcat wrote:We played like it's another game. Griz played like it was Cat Griz game


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I agree with this. I don't like that Ash preaches "it's just another game" because it isn't. Never has been. When Ash decides to leave, I hope there is a Montana native who applies for the job.


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MSU won't hire a Montana native...look at their hiring at EVERY high level position on campus! The mentality is, "we have to pay more for out-of-staters to come here and bring their experience/worldliness/enlightened opinions and ideas, because Montanan's aren't as cultured." And, we have to pay them more. I've heard it 100s of times, "That's what we have to do to get 'them' to come here." Then, these same people turn around and brag about how awesome Bozeman and MSU are...but, wait, if the town and University are so awesome, shouldn't we be able to pay them less, especially when they don't have any experience at the position they're accepting? Everyone else who works at MSU, and in most of Bozeman, has to be paid less than the 5/7/15 state average and is supposed to "eat the scenery" why shouldn't they and why wouldn't they want to? To the "elites" (I'm talking about the hiring committee chairs and administration) Montanan's aren't "diverse" enough, don't have enough "experience," and aren't capable of running such important and intricate systems/departments/programs. No Montanan is qualified for these positions. Its Jonathan Gruber syndrome at the state level!
Good point. This is how MSU ends up with losers like Franke Wilmer.


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Re:

Post by Cat Grad » Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:27 am

FTG06' wrote:
WetWaderMT wrote:
FTG06' wrote:
77matcat wrote:We played like it's another game. Griz played like it was Cat Griz game


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I agree with this. I don't like that Ash preaches "it's just another game" because it isn't. Never has been. When Ash decides to leave, I hope there is a Montana native who applies for the job.


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MSU won't hire a Montana native...look at their hiring at EVERY high level position on campus! The mentality is, "we have to pay more for out-of-staters to come here and bring their experience/worldliness/enlightened opinions and ideas, because Montanan's aren't as cultured." And, we have to pay them more. I've heard it 100s of times, "That's what we have to do to get 'them' to come here." Then, these same people turn around and brag about how awesome Bozeman and MSU are...but, wait, if the town and University are so awesome, shouldn't we be able to pay them less, especially when they don't have any experience at the position they're accepting? Everyone else who works at MSU, and in most of Bozeman, has to be paid less than the 5/7/15 state average and is supposed to "eat the scenery" why shouldn't they and why wouldn't they want to? To the "elites" (I'm talking about the hiring committee chairs and administration) Montanan's aren't "diverse" enough, don't have enough "experience," and aren't capable of running such important and intricate systems/departments/programs. No Montanan is qualified for these positions. Its Jonathan Gruber syndrome at the state level!
Good point. This is how MSU ends up with losers like Franke Wilmer.


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Man, did you ever hit on a sore subject of mine! Not just MSU but check out the school systems! It's extremely disappointing to go through our faculty lists and look at where they are from and then compare them with any of our neighboring states. Say what you will about the evil school west on I-90, they do a reasonable job of keeping their faculty home grown. It's probably the main reason I voted for Mike Wheat after listening to him speak and I'll paraphrase: "All you rich out of state big money interests, go back to where the hell you're from!"



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Re:

Post by msuhunter » Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:36 am

FTG06' wrote:
WetWaderMT wrote:
FTG06' wrote:
77matcat wrote:We played like it's another game. Griz played like it was Cat Griz game


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I agree with this. I don't like that Ash preaches "it's just another game" because it isn't. Never has been. When Ash decides to leave, I hope there is a Montana native who applies for the job.


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MSU won't hire a Montana native...look at their hiring at EVERY high level position on campus! The mentality is, "we have to pay more for out-of-staters to come here and bring their experience/worldliness/enlightened opinions and ideas, because Montanan's aren't as cultured." And, we have to pay them more. I've heard it 100s of times, "That's what we have to do to get 'them' to come here." Then, these same people turn around and brag about how awesome Bozeman and MSU are...but, wait, if the town and University are so awesome, shouldn't we be able to pay them less, especially when they don't have any experience at the position they're accepting? Everyone else who works at MSU, and in most of Bozeman, has to be paid less than the 5/7/15 state average and is supposed to "eat the scenery" why shouldn't they and why wouldn't they want to? To the "elites" (I'm talking about the hiring committee chairs and administration) Montanan's aren't "diverse" enough, don't have enough "experience," and aren't capable of running such important and intricate systems/departments/programs. No Montanan is qualified for these positions. Its Jonathan Gruber syndrome at the state level!
Good point. This is how MSU ends up with losers like Franke Wilmer.


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Truth. That lady is the most worthless professor on campus (right next to Jerry Johnson).



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Re: "Ash never wins the big games"

Post by Cat Grad » Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:37 am

And while you're on the subject of out of state faculty, what about the athletic department? What's the deal there with not hiring more than a few of our former players? I know every year since fields has been at MSU it's been suggested to him numerous times to take the coaches to the huge concentrations of MSU grads in large metropolitan areas and that they could use some help facilitating booster clubs. Much too inconvenient for him and his staff I suppose.

We spend a great deal of time counting where our student-athletes played high school sports but we don't do a very good job of supporting our own once they graduate and I'm sure the rest of the country appreciates the relief our school is providing for their overloaded schools.



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Re: "Ash never wins the big games"

Post by FTG06' » Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:44 am

Cat Grad wrote:And while you're on the subject of out of state faculty, what about the athletic department? What's the deal there with not hiring more than a few of our former players? I know every year since fields has been at MSU it's been suggested to him numerous times to take the coaches to the huge concentrations of MSU grads in large metropolitan areas and that they could use some help facilitating booster clubs. Much too inconvenient for him and his staff I suppose.

We spend a great deal of time counting where our student-athletes played high school sports but we don't do a very good job of supporting our own once they graduate and I'm sure the rest of the country appreciates the relief our school is providing for their overloaded schools.
Little known fact: Fields is from Presque Isle, Maine. If MSU has a problem, it's an east coast problem. If I was to make an observation about east coasters compared to us Montanans, east coasters are very self centered.


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Re:

Post by Cat Grad » Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:54 am

FTG06' wrote:
Cat Grad wrote:And while you're on the subject of out of state faculty, what about the athletic department? What's the deal there with not hiring more than a few of our former players? I know every year since fields has been at MSU it's been suggested to him numerous times to take the coaches to the huge concentrations of MSU grads in large metropolitan areas and that they could use some help facilitating booster clubs. Much too inconvenient for him and his staff I suppose.

We spend a great deal of time counting where our student-athletes played high school sports but we don't do a very good job of supporting our own once they graduate and I'm sure the rest of the country appreciates the relief our school is providing for their overloaded schools.
Little known fact: Fields is from Presque Isle, Maine. If MSU has a problem, it's an east coast problem. If I was to make an observation about east coasters compared to us Montanans, east coasters are very self centered.


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I've never had very good experiences with those from the northeast, but I suppose it has a lot to do with my personal interests. Plus, fields is another NAIA product and it seems if we are sincere about overall qualifications throughout the campus, one would be much happier with staff and faculty from more prestigious venues.

You do realize he was a wrestler, so what would his level of expertise truly bring to our campus and especially in light of the fact he was little more than an intern assisting with fund raising in Columbia with Missouri? Between him and the previous administration, what has he cost MSU in lost litigation how many times?



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"Ash never wins the big games"

Post by 77matcat » Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:02 am

We do seem to struggle with big games or In some cases melt down. Not sure that I think the coach should go but I do think we ought to get him help. I have said this a couple of times for the past couple of years.

Hire a sports psychologist to evaluate the approach we take. Something seems to be off.

As a junior in high school I played on an over achieving team and we beat a team that should have been champs. Next year with a good portion of the team back we failed.




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Re: "Ash never wins the big games"

Post by Muck the Friz » Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:10 am

MSU01 wrote:I understand where some of the criticism of the coaching staff comes from, although I prefer to stay out of it as those guys on the sidelines have forgotten 10 times more about football than I will ever know. But can we at least end the "Ash can't win the big games" thing now? If this wasn't a big game I'm not sure what is.

Big games are games against ranked opponents, the Friz, or playoffs. Winning regular conference games against unranked opponents is NOT a big game. Ash is a good teacher but I just don't think he is a motivator. Our Cats seem flat or outmatched every year against the Griz. How can they not match the intensity of the Friz each year?!


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Re:

Post by TrueCat » Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:16 am

[quote="FTG06'"][quote="Cat Grad"]And while you're on the subject of out of state faculty, what about the athletic department? What's the deal there with not hiring more than a few of our former players? I know every year since fields has been at MSU it's been suggested to him numerous times to take the coaches to the huge concentrations of MSU grads in large metropolitan areas and that they could use some help facilitating booster clubs. Much too inconvenient for him and his staff I suppose.

We spend a great deal of time counting where our student-athletes played high school sports but we don't do a very good job of supporting our own once they graduate and I'm sure the rest of the country appreciates the relief our school is providing for their overloaded schools.[/quote]
Little known fact: Fields is from Presque Isle, Maine. If MSU has a problem, it's an east coast problem. If I was to make an observation about east coasters compared to us Montanans, east coasters are very self centered.


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WOW! That is a pretty broad stroke you are painting with. [-X



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Re: Re:

Post by NrthFce » Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:01 pm

TrueCat wrote:
FTG06' wrote:
Cat Grad wrote:And while you're on the subject of out of state faculty, what about the athletic department? What's the deal there with not hiring more than a few of our former players? I know every year since fields has been at MSU it's been suggested to him numerous times to take the coaches to the huge concentrations of MSU grads in large metropolitan areas and that they could use some help facilitating booster clubs. Much too inconvenient for him and his staff I suppose.

We spend a great deal of time counting where our student-athletes played high school sports but we don't do a very good job of supporting our own once they graduate and I'm sure the rest of the country appreciates the relief our school is providing for their overloaded schools.
Little known fact: Fields is from Presque Isle, Maine. If MSU has a problem, it's an east coast problem. If I was to make an observation about east coasters compared to us Montanans, east coasters are very self centered.


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WOW! That is a pretty broad stroke you are painting with. [-X
I must agree :D


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Re: "Ash never wins the big games"

Post by FTG06' » Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:33 pm

TrueCat wrote:
FTG06' wrote:
Cat Grad wrote:And while you're on the subject of out of state faculty, what about the athletic department? What's the deal there with not hiring more than a few of our former players? I know every year since fields has been at MSU it's been suggested to him numerous times to take the coaches to the huge concentrations of MSU grads in large metropolitan areas and that they could use some help facilitating booster clubs. Much too inconvenient for him and his staff I suppose.

We spend a great deal of time counting where our student-athletes played high school sports but we don't do a very good job of supporting our own once they graduate and I'm sure the rest of the country appreciates the relief our school is providing for their overloaded schools.
Little known fact: Fields is from Presque Isle, Maine. If MSU has a problem, it's an east coast problem. If I was to make an observation about east coasters compared to us Montanans, east coasters are very self centered.


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WOW! That is a pretty broad stroke you are painting with. [-X
I've lived in every part of this country, from the west coast, to the Midwest, the south, and now the east coast. Believe me, I have perspective.

But that really has nothing to do with the thread, so I'll shut up now.


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Re: "Ash never wins the big games"

Post by wbtfg » Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:47 pm

Jason McEndoo ‏@JasonMcEndoo 22m22 minutes ago
I've coached long enough to know that the people patting you on the back are sometimes the ones stabbing u in the back.................#CHiP



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Re: "Ash never wins the big games"

Post by tampa_griz » Mon Nov 24, 2014 6:08 pm

wbtfg wrote:Jason McEndoo ‏@JasonMcEndoo 22m22 minutes ago
I've coached long enough to know that the people patting you on the back are sometimes the ones stabbing u in the back.................#CHiP
Ouch.



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Re: "Ash never wins the big games"

Post by ElbowCat » Mon Nov 24, 2014 6:18 pm

wbtfg wrote:Jason McEndoo ‏@JasonMcEndoo 22m22 minutes ago
I've coached long enough to know that the people patting you on the back are sometimes the ones stabbing u in the back.................#CHiP
Wow, that is some kind of tweet there and I suspect spot on given the atmosphere around here after a loss.



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Re: "Ash never wins the big games"

Post by TomCat88 » Mon Nov 24, 2014 6:22 pm

Everyone, from coaches to players to fans, better move on or this SDSU game isn't going to go well. Cramsey said last night that they can't let one less loss turn into two losses. If MSU doesn't put this Cat-Griz game behind it, it'll do just that.


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Re: "Ash never wins the big games"

Post by GoldstoneCat » Mon Nov 24, 2014 6:54 pm

TomCat88 wrote:Everyone, from coaches to players to fans, better move on or this SDSU game isn't going to go well. Cramsey said last night that they can't let one less loss turn into two losses. If MSU doesn't put this Cat-Griz game behind it, it'll do just that.
Exactly, great point by him and by you Tom. Nothing can possibly be gained from re-living that game, we all saw what happened. Burn the tape and scatter the ashes, and focus on SDSU, because they deserve our full attention. So many on here say you want to compete for Big Sky and National championships, which I think we all agree with. Here's our chance to take the first step toward that championship run. Do I believe we have that type of run in us? Not sure, but I'm looking forward to watching this week and seeing how it goes, and I'll be there in the snow yelling my fool head off!



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