Garrett Marino dismissed from Bobcat football team (FREE)

[allcat]

I'm reminded of the open container ticket I earned up in glacier park this fall. I left an empty beer can in the console of the vehicle when we went hiking to the falls. The ranger was in the parking lot waiting for my return as apparently they look into everyone's vehicle when they're out hiking. I paid it. I earned it, but it's crap.

Wow. That's complete B.S. I wouldn't have paid it. Is that even against the law??? An empty beer can?

I agree the ticket is bull but how does the cop know if it is empty. The real problem that I have is I don't like cops shopping to give a ticket, if they do see something wrong I don't have a problem, but I see this type of ticket as shopping.

[catatac]

I'm reminded of the open container ticket I earned up in glacier park this fall. I left an empty beer can in the console of the vehicle when we went hiking to the falls. The ranger was in the parking lot waiting for my return as apparently they look into everyone's vehicle when they're out hiking. I paid it. I earned it, but it's crap.

Wow. That's complete B.S. I wouldn't have paid it. Is that even against the law??? An empty beer can?

I agree the ticket is bull but how does the cop know if it is empty. The real problem that I have is I don't like cops shopping to give a ticket, if they do see something wrong I don't have a problem, but I see this type of ticket as shopping.

The bigger problem is... who cares? I agree they are shopping. I get it - they are there to enforce the rules but give me a break. It was only a few years ago that the law changed to even make this illegal anyway. Lastly, LTCF - when you looked it up, is it still illegal if there is zero trace or alcohol left in the can? I just keep thinking about how many times I have an empty growler, or empty cans or bottles in a garbage sack in the back of my truck, etc.

[LongTimeCatFan]

I'm reminded of the open container ticket I earned up in glacier park this fall. I left an empty beer can in the console of the vehicle when we went hiking to the falls. The ranger was in the parking lot waiting for my return as apparently they look into everyone's vehicle when they're out hiking. I paid it. I earned it, but it's crap.

Wow. That's complete B.S. I wouldn't have paid it. Is that even against the law??? An empty beer can?

I agree the ticket is bull but how does the cop know if it is empty. The real problem that I have is I don't like cops shopping to give a ticket, if they do see something wrong I don't have a problem, but I see this type of ticket as shopping.

The bigger problem is... who cares? I agree they are shopping. I get it - they are there to enforce the rules but give me a break. It was only a few years ago that the law changed to even make this illegal anyway. Lastly, LTCF - when you looked it up, is it still illegal if there is zero trace or alcohol left in the can? I just keep thinking about how many times I have an empty growler, or empty cans or bottles in a garbage sack in the back of my truck, etc.

Yep, doesn't matter. As long as it was once a vessel to contain alcohol, they can get ya.

[CatBlitz]

I'm reminded of the open container ticket I earned up in glacier park this fall. I left an empty beer can in the console of the vehicle when we went hiking to the falls. The ranger was in the parking lot waiting for my return as apparently they look into everyone's vehicle when they're out hiking. I paid it. I earned it, but it's crap.

Wow. That's complete B.S. I wouldn't have paid it. Is that even against the law??? An empty beer can?

I agree the ticket is bull but how does the cop know if it is empty. The real problem that I have is I don't like cops shopping to give a ticket, if they do see something wrong I don't have a problem, but I see this type of ticket as shopping.

The bigger problem is... who cares? I agree they are shopping. I get it - they are there to enforce the rules but give me a break. It was only a few years ago that the law changed to even make this illegal anyway. Lastly, LTCF - when you looked it up, is it still illegal if there is zero trace or alcohol left in the can? I just keep thinking about how many times I have an empty growler, or empty cans or bottles in a garbage sack in the back of my truck, etc.

Yep, doesn't matter. As long as it was once a vessel to contain alcohol, they can get ya.

Moral of the story, mix your liquor in with a coke can/bottle or pour your beer in something else.

[LTown Cat]

I'm reminded of the open container ticket I earned up in glacier park this fall. I left an empty beer can in the console of the vehicle when we went hiking to the falls. The ranger was in the parking lot waiting for my return as apparently they look into everyone's vehicle when they're out hiking. I paid it. I earned it, but it's crap.

Wow. That's complete B.S. I wouldn't have paid it. Is that even against the law??? An empty beer can?

I agree the ticket is bull but how does the cop know if it is empty. The real problem that I have is I don't like cops shopping to give a ticket, if they do see something wrong I don't have a problem, but I see this type of ticket as shopping.

The bigger problem is... who cares? I agree they are shopping. I get it - they are there to enforce the rules but give me a break. It was only a few years ago that the law changed to even make this illegal anyway. Lastly, LTCF - when you looked it up, is it still illegal if there is zero trace or alcohol left in the can? I just keep thinking about how many times I have an empty growler, or empty cans or bottles in a garbage sack in the back of my truck, etc.

Yep, doesn't matter. As long as it was once a vessel to contain alcohol, they can get ya.

Moral of the story, mix your liquor in with a coke can/bottle or pour your beer in something else.

Tough to do while driving...

[LongTimeCatFan]

I'm reminded of the open container ticket I earned up in glacier park this fall. I left an empty beer can in the console of the vehicle when we went hiking to the falls. The ranger was in the parking lot waiting for my return as apparently they look into everyone's vehicle when they're out hiking. I paid it. I earned it, but it's crap.

Wow. That's complete B.S. I wouldn't have paid it. Is that even against the law??? An empty beer can?

I agree the ticket is bull but how does the cop know if it is empty. The real problem that I have is I don't like cops shopping to give a ticket, if they do see something wrong I don't have a problem, but I see this type of ticket as shopping.

The bigger problem is... who cares? I agree they are shopping. I get it - they are there to enforce the rules but give me a break. It was only a few years ago that the law changed to even make this illegal anyway. Lastly, LTCF - when you looked it up, is it still illegal if there is zero trace or alcohol left in the can? I just keep thinking about how many times I have an empty growler, or empty cans or bottles in a garbage sack in the back of my truck, etc.

Yep, doesn't matter. As long as it was once a vessel to contain alcohol, they can get ya.

Moral of the story, mix your liquor in with a coke can/bottle or pour your beer in something else.

Or crush the can and put it out of view before leaving.

[CatBlitz]

I'm reminded of the open container ticket I earned up in glacier park this fall. I left an empty beer can in the console of the vehicle when we went hiking to the falls. The ranger was in the parking lot waiting for my return as apparently they look into everyone's vehicle when they're out hiking. I paid it. I earned it, but it's crap.

Wow. That's complete B.S. I wouldn't have paid it. Is that even against the law??? An empty beer can?

I agree the ticket is bull but how does the cop know if it is empty. The real problem that I have is I don't like cops shopping to give a ticket, if they do see something wrong I don't have a problem, but I see this type of ticket as shopping.

The bigger problem is... who cares? I agree they are shopping. I get it - they are there to enforce the rules but give me a break. It was only a few years ago that the law changed to even make this illegal anyway. Lastly, LTCF - when you looked it up, is it still illegal if there is zero trace or alcohol left in the can? I just keep thinking about how many times I have an empty growler, or empty cans or bottles in a garbage sack in the back of my truck, etc.

Yep, doesn't matter. As long as it was once a vessel to contain alcohol, they can get ya.

Moral of the story, mix your liquor in with a coke can/bottle or pour your beer in something else.

Or crush the can and put it out of view before leaving.

Well yeah, if you're leaving. But in case you don't want to be hassled just sitting there...

[LongTimeCatFan]

Just in case anybody wants to know more than they need to about Montana's Open Container law:

http://www.mdt.mt.gov/safety/open_container.shtml

[RockyBearCat]

and more detail on DUI. http://leg.mt.gov/bills/mca/61/8/61-8-401.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As far as the DUI, it does not matter if he hadn't even moved the vehicle. A DUI can be given (and is) if you are impaired and have physical control of a vehicle upon the ways of this state open to the public. Parking lots are included in that. You hear about people trying to sleep it off in the car after a trip to the bar, but that is considered physical control and you can be arrested. Best bet, get a ride home, take a taxi, just stay out of the vehicles.

[The Big Meowski]

and more detail on DUI. http://leg.mt.gov/bills/mca/61/8/61-8-401.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As far as the DUI, it does not matter if he hadn't even moved the vehicle. A DUI can be given (and is) if you are impaired and have physical control of a vehicle upon the ways of this state open to the public. Parking lots are included in that. You hear about people trying to sleep it off in the car after a trip to the bar, but that is considered physical control and you can be arrested. Best bet, get a ride home, take a taxi, just stay out of the vehicles.

I know a guy that was hammered with a DUI for sleeping in his vehicle. Kinda stinks, of course it didn't help his case that the vehicle was running and he was at a stoplight. Not good.

[LongTimeCatFan]

and more detail on DUI. http://leg.mt.gov/bills/mca/61/8/61-8-401.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As far as the DUI, it does not matter if he hadn't even moved the vehicle. A DUI can be given (and is) if you are impaired and have physical control of a vehicle upon the ways of this state open to the public. Parking lots are included in that. You hear about people trying to sleep it off in the car after a trip to the bar, but that is considered physical control and you can be arrested. Best bet, get a ride home, take a taxi, just stay out of the vehicles.

I know a guy that was hammered with a DUI for sleeping in his vehicle. Kinda stinks, of course it didn't help his case that the vehicle was running and he was at a stoplight. Not good.

In Conrad?

[[cat_bracket]]

and more detail on DUI. http://leg.mt.gov/bills/mca/61/8/61-8-401.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As far as the DUI, it does not matter if he hadn't even moved the vehicle. A DUI can be given (and is) if you are impaired and have physical control of a vehicle upon the ways of this state open to the public. Parking lots are included in that. You hear about people trying to sleep it off in the car after a trip to the bar, but that is considered physical control and you can be arrested. Best bet, get a ride home, take a taxi, just stay out of the vehicles.

"Can be" but doesn't have to be. Cops can use their judgement.

[KittieKop]

and more detail on DUI. http://leg.mt.gov/bills/mca/61/8/61-8-401.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As far as the DUI, it does not matter if he hadn't even moved the vehicle. A DUI can be given (and is) if you are impaired and have physical control of a vehicle upon the ways of this state open to the public. Parking lots are included in that. You hear about people trying to sleep it off in the car after a trip to the bar, but that is considered physical control and you can be arrested. Best bet, get a ride home, take a taxi, just stay out of the vehicles.

"Can be" but doesn't have to be. Cops can use their judgement.

Yeah, right up until that judgement differs from what someone else thought should be done, then its "why didn't the stupid cop just do his job?"

A buzzed guy moving a car in the parking lot isn't a big deal until he bumps into your car, then its a big deal and you want him hung from the nearest tree. Believe me, I've had this argument 1,000 times in the last 20+ years.

"Judgement" and "discretion" in DUIs is great - until you give a drunk a ride home with instructions to stay there and not drive. And he walks back to get his car, drives and kills someone. Believe me, I have first hand knowledge of that happening. Then there's no defense of just using "judgement" in not arresting someone.

[LongTimeCatFan]

and more detail on DUI. http://leg.mt.gov/bills/mca/61/8/61-8-401.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As far as the DUI, it does not matter if he hadn't even moved the vehicle. A DUI can be given (and is) if you are impaired and have physical control of a vehicle upon the ways of this state open to the public. Parking lots are included in that. You hear about people trying to sleep it off in the car after a trip to the bar, but that is considered physical control and you can be arrested. Best bet, get a ride home, take a taxi, just stay out of the vehicles.

"Can be" but doesn't have to be. Cops can use their judgement.

Yeah, right up until that judgement differs from what someone else thought should be done, then its "why didn't the stupid cop just do his job?"

A buzzed guy moving a car in the parking lot isn't a big deal until he bumps into your car, then its a big deal and you want him hung from the nearest tree. Believe me, I've had this argument 1,000 times in the last 20+ years.

"Judgement" and "discretion" in DUIs is great - until you give a drunk a ride home with instructions to stay there and not drive. And he walks back to get his car, drives and kills someone. Believe me, I have first hand knowledge of that happening. Then there's no defense of just using "judgement" in not arresting someone.

I can see that. It's certainly not an easy job.

[Joe Bobcat]

and more detail on DUI. http://leg.mt.gov/bills/mca/61/8/61-8-401.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As far as the DUI, it does not matter if he hadn't even moved the vehicle. A DUI can be given (and is) if you are impaired and have physical control of a vehicle upon the ways of this state open to the public. Parking lots are included in that. You hear about people trying to sleep it off in the car after a trip to the bar, but that is considered physical control and you can be arrested. Best bet, get a ride home, take a taxi, just stay out of the vehicles.

"Can be" but doesn't have to be. Cops can use their judgement.

Yeah, right up until that judgement differs from what someone else thought should be done, then its "why didn't the stupid cop just do his job?"

A buzzed guy moving a car in the parking lot isn't a big deal until he bumps into your car, then its a big deal and you want him hung from the nearest tree. Believe me, I've had this argument 1,000 times in the last 20+ years.

"Judgement" and "discretion" in DUIs is great - until you give a drunk a ride home with instructions to stay there and not drive. And he walks back to get his car, drives and kills someone. Believe me, I have first hand knowledge of that happening. Then there's no defense of just using "judgement" in not arresting someone.

I was sure you would have something to add on this and glad to see you did. I very much respect you and thank you for doing your job concerning DUI. Things that have happened to friends and relatives in my past have given me the resolve to not knowingly let someone drive drunk and I do not hesitate a bit in reporting a drunk driver.

[TomCat88]

You could probably walk down Main Street smoking weed and the cops wouldn't think twice about it, but once you get in that car, it's trouble. Same as having alcohol around your car and they're probably a lot more sensitive to that.

[LongTimeCatFan]

You could probably walk down Main Street smoking weed and the cops wouldn't think twice about it, but once you get in that car, it's trouble. Same as having alcohol around your car and they're probably a lot more sensitive to that.

You're right.

Apparently the people off the Rez had some big parties at the falls which is why they check vehicles down there now.

It was $110 and not worth my time. But yeah, I get what you're saying. I just think a little common sense is missing sometimes.

[lutecat]

I always thought that the best idea to sleep it off was to get in the passenger or back seat of the car and make sure your keys are in the opposite. Never in the ignition. I know a guy that got a DUI because he decided to sleep it off in the parking lot of the Cat's Paw. He was caught because he turned his car on to stay warm and the car just happened to catch on fire. Yep. Way to wake up. Cop pulling you out of your car that's on fire and getting slapped with a DUI to boot.

As far as the open container law, I get why its that way, but it makes it so people would be more likely to litter. Drink a beer fishing and when its time to go home, what do you do with your trash now? Take it back in your car and you could get an open container violation if you get pulled over.

[KittieKop]

I don't know about the national park thing - I assume the ticket there came on some regulation having to do with national park grounds. The MT open contain in a vehicle law applies to any OPEN container of alcohol in the passenger compartment. You're not going to get in trouble for empty beer cans on the floorboard of the car (though obviously a stack of fresh empties will probably peek a cops interest in DUI or something else, so throw them away). It DOES apply to open bottles of liquor, so don't grab the open bottle of whiskey to bring to someone's house and throw it on your passenger seat. If the seal's broken, its open; put it in the trunk.

As far as MJ goes, I can say in MT anyway, the attitude is obviously changing. I can speak for most the people I know, cops aren't out hunting for small quantity, personal use dope. You shove it in my face, yeah, I have to do something about it. You drive while you're impaired, whether its drugs or alcohol, yeah, I'm going to do something about it. You're stupid enough to be sitting in a car in a parking lot smoking and I roll up on you, the window comes down and its something like from a Cheech and Chong movie, don't expect me to ignore it.

The thing with being a cop is - and I'm sorry if I was a bit of a jerk on the earlier comeback, its been a rough week - its becoming more and more risky liability-wise personally. Its usually much safer, and I have no problem saying this, if there's probable cause to make an arrest to just make it and let the courts and attorneys decide whether it should proceed or be dismissed. There are few things to me worth risking my family, my house, my job for. And if I make the wrong decision just once, like letting a guy I know is drunk walk away from a stop, that's all it might take. Most of the time cops eventually are covered personally by qualified immunity, as long as you act legally under color of your authority, but if you step away from what's lawful or against what a policy or procedure it, you can find yourself flapping in the wind.

I can talk for hours about being a cop - I've done it for 20 years, I love my job and one of my passions is promoting the professionalism of my job, but its hard because there are knuckle-draggers in my profession and not all departments care about all the things I think I and mine do. Its hard changing the course of a river, particularly when you're under a microscope and every time an idiot cop in Texas does something - to a chunk of the population anyway - that somehow shows every single cop in the country is the same way. You get a guy who's truly a hood-wearing racist, then somehow everyone is. I've made mistakes, and will continue to make mistakes, because we're all human. And if you want people in jobs like this to be able to use judgement and discretion, to be able to have empathy and sympathy for people you need human beings not robots. If you have human beings, you have to live with some of the human foibles and weaknesses also, though hopefully to a lesser extent. So, sorry, end of rant.

[77matcat]

Yup. Not an easy job. Thanks for your service!!!


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