Defense with a lead

[John K]

I have greatly enjoyed watching our first four games. The offense is a nice change. I will also enjoy the rest of our games.

Having said that, I believe our defense is good but it probably won't get us far into the playoffs if at all. Not sure if it's skills, coaching or both.

Am convinced that D wins championships and at this point doesn't look like one is in the cards for us.

Hope I'm wrong


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Can you give some examples? With the game still hanging in the balance we've played very well on D with exception of the final drive vs EWU.

It wasn't just the final drive in the EWU game. The defense allowed 22 points in the 4th quarter, and we squandered a 14-point 4th quarter lead. That shouldn't ever happen to a championship caliber defense, even against a great offensive team like EWU. We got away with it against average/bad teams like UCA and UND, but I think we may get bitten again when playing better teams, if we don't start doing a better job of locking down 4th quarter leads.

Sorry, but there's only one EWU and you can't seriously be blaming the D for that loss and that one game can't seriously be the only game worth evaluating in determining if a team has a good or bad defense. The defense allowed 15 points in The fourth not 22.

So rather than blaming the defense, you would blame an offense that scored 51 points??? Gotcha.

[91catAlum]

I have greatly enjoyed watching our first four games. The offense is a nice change. I will also enjoy the rest of our games.

Having said that, I believe our defense is good but it probably won't get us far into the playoffs if at all. Not sure if it's skills, coaching or both.

Am convinced that D wins championships and at this point doesn't look like one is in the cards for us.

Hope I'm wrong


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Can you give some examples? With the game still hanging in the balance we've played very well on D with exception of the final drive vs EWU.

Yup 50+ points. Can't believe anyone would ask about defense re Eastern game



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EWU just had its string of 13 straight 500+ yard games snapped by all of 25 yards. When you can show me a team that stops EWU I'll be all ears. Do our other games not count?

Our other games do indeed count. The defense has been less than stellar in the 4th quarter of every one of our games against D-I opponents so far this season, but the EWU game was the only one in which it actually cost us a victory. And I'll guarantee you that NDSU wouldn't allow EWU to gain 500 yards or score 22 4th quarter points.

I agree with what you're saying... But the EWU score at the end of 3 quarters was 44-37. The defense gave up 15 in the 4th. Not 22. We did lead 44-30 at one point but that was in the 3rd qtr.

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[[cat_bracket]]

I have greatly enjoyed watching our first four games. The offense is a nice change. I will also enjoy the rest of our games.

Having said that, I believe our defense is good but it probably won't get us far into the playoffs if at all. Not sure if it's skills, coaching or both.

Am convinced that D wins championships and at this point doesn't look like one is in the cards for us.

Hope I'm wrong


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Can you give some examples? With the game still hanging in the balance we've played very well on D with exception of the final drive vs EWU.

It wasn't just the final drive in the EWU game. The defense allowed 22 points in the 4th quarter, and we squandered a 14-point 4th quarter lead. That shouldn't ever happen to a championship caliber defense, even against a great offensive team like EWU. We got away with it against average/bad teams like UCA and UND, but I think we may get bitten again when playing better teams, if we don't start doing a better job of locking down 4th quarter leads.

Sorry, but there's only one EWU and you can't seriously be blaming the D for that loss and that one game can't seriously be the only game worth evaluating in determining if a team has a good or bad defense. The defense allowed 15 points in The fourth not 22.

So rather than blaming the defense, you would blame an offense that scored 51 points??? Gotcha.

You shouldn't need me to point out that MSU dropped two potential game winning passes and failed to convert one yard on two occasions. So, yes, if I'm going to cast blame its not going to be on the defense.

[John K]

I have greatly enjoyed watching our first four games. The offense is a nice change. I will also enjoy the rest of our games.

Having said that, I believe our defense is good but it probably won't get us far into the playoffs if at all. Not sure if it's skills, coaching or both.

Am convinced that D wins championships and at this point doesn't look like one is in the cards for us.

Hope I'm wrong


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Can you give some examples? With the game still hanging in the balance we've played very well on D with exception of the final drive vs EWU.

Yup 50+ points. Can't believe anyone would ask about defense re Eastern game



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EWU just had its string of 13 straight 500+ yard games snapped by all of 25 yards. When you can show me a team that stops EWU I'll be all ears. Do our other games not count?

Our other games do indeed count. The defense has been less than stellar in the 4th quarter of every one of our games against D-I opponents so far this season, but the EWU game was the only one in which it actually cost us a victory. And I'll guarantee you that NDSU wouldn't allow EWU to gain 500 yards or score 22 4th quarter points.

I agree with what you're saying... But the EWU score at the end of 3 quarters was 44-37. The defense gave up 15 in the 4th. Not 22. We did lead 44-30 at one point but that was in the 3rd qtr.

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OK...I stand corrected. But the score that made it 44-37 came with only 1:11 to go in the 3rd quarter, so they scored 22 points in the final 16 minutes of the game.

[[cat_bracket]]

I have greatly enjoyed watching our first four games. The offense is a nice change. I will also enjoy the rest of our games.

Having said that, I believe our defense is good but it probably won't get us far into the playoffs if at all. Not sure if it's skills, coaching or both.

Am convinced that D wins championships and at this point doesn't look like one is in the cards for us.

Hope I'm wrong


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Can you give some examples? With the game still hanging in the balance we've played very well on D with exception of the final drive vs EWU.

Yup 50+ points. Can't believe anyone would ask about defense re Eastern game



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

EWU just had its string of 13 straight 500+ yard games snapped by all of 25 yards. When you can show me a team that stops EWU I'll be all ears. Do our other games not count?

Our other games do indeed count. The defense has been less than stellar in the 4th quarter of every one of our games against D-I opponents so far this season, but the EWU game was the only one in which it actually cost us a victory. And I'll guarantee you that NDSU wouldn't allow EWU to gain 500 yards or score 22 4th quarter points.

Oh, excuse me, I forgot. We're supposed to play offense like EWU and defense like NDSU or its not good enough. Thanks I'll remember that. Again, we gave up 15 points in the fourth, not 22.

[[cat_bracket]]

I have greatly enjoyed watching our first four games. The offense is a nice change. I will also enjoy the rest of our games.

Having said that, I believe our defense is good but it probably won't get us far into the playoffs if at all. Not sure if it's skills, coaching or both.

Am convinced that D wins championships and at this point doesn't look like one is in the cards for us.

Hope I'm wrong


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Can you give some examples? With the game still hanging in the balance we've played very well on D with exception of the final drive vs EWU.

Yup 50+ points. Can't believe anyone would ask about defense re Eastern game



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EWU just had its string of 13 straight 500+ yard games snapped by all of 25 yards. When you can show me a team that stops EWU I'll be all ears. Do our other games not count?

And they didn't score any in an 11 minute stretch of the fourth whilst our offense was turning the ball over - once in prime scoring position and right after dropping a TD pass. Damn defense!!
Our other games do indeed count. The defense has been less than stellar in the 4th quarter of every one of our games against D-I opponents so far this season, but the EWU game was the only one in which it actually cost us a victory. And I'll guarantee you that NDSU wouldn't allow EWU to gain 500 yards or score 22 4th quarter points.

I agree with what you're saying... But the EWU score at the end of 3 quarters was 44-37. The defense gave up 15 in the 4th. Not 22. We did lead 44-30 at one point but that was in the 3rd qtr.

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OK...I stand corrected. But the score that made it 44-37 came with only 1:11 to go in the 3rd quarter, so they scored 22 points in the final 16 minutes of the game.

We held them scoreless for an 11 minute stretch in the fourth while our offense turned it over on downs twice. Once in prime scoring position and once right after dropping a td pass. Damn defense!!!

[John K]

I have greatly enjoyed watching our first four games. The offense is a nice change. I will also enjoy the rest of our games.

Having said that, I believe our defense is good but it probably won't get us far into the playoffs if at all. Not sure if it's skills, coaching or both.

Am convinced that D wins championships and at this point doesn't look like one is in the cards for us.

Hope I'm wrong


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Can you give some examples? With the game still hanging in the balance we've played very well on D with exception of the final drive vs EWU.

It wasn't just the final drive in the EWU game. The defense allowed 22 points in the 4th quarter, and we squandered a 14-point 4th quarter lead. That shouldn't ever happen to a championship caliber defense, even against a great offensive team like EWU. We got away with it against average/bad teams like UCA and UND, but I think we may get bitten again when playing better teams, if we don't start doing a better job of locking down 4th quarter leads.

Sorry, but there's only one EWU and you can't seriously be blaming the D for that loss and that one game can't seriously be the only game worth evaluating in determining if a team has a good or bad defense. The defense allowed 15 points in The fourth not 22.

So rather than blaming the defense, you would blame an offense that scored 51 points??? Gotcha.

You shouldn't need me to point out that MSU dropped two potential game winning passes and failed to convert one yard on two occasions. So, yes, if I'm going to cast blame its not going to be on the defense.

The offense certainly made some mistakes and failed to capitalize on some opportunities in the 4th quarter...no argument there. But you make it sound like no defense in the country could be expected to have done a better job against EWU than ours did, and I just don't agree with you. They're a very good offensive team...you don't need to be Vince Lombardi to recognize that. In fact, I posted last week that I thought the defense actually played fairly well against EWU, at least compared to last year. We forced them into three punts, and got two picks. But from what I've seen so far, the defense hasn't been good enough to think that we can go on a deep playoff run...no one will ever confuse it with NDSU's. I think many of us expected that we'd have a dominant defense...perhaps the best in the BSC. I think it's above average/fairly good, but certainly not great.

[John K]

I have greatly enjoyed watching our first four games. The offense is a nice change. I will also enjoy the rest of our games.

Having said that, I believe our defense is good but it probably won't get us far into the playoffs if at all. Not sure if it's skills, coaching or both.

Am convinced that D wins championships and at this point doesn't look like one is in the cards for us.

Hope I'm wrong


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Can you give some examples? With the game still hanging in the balance we've played very well on D with exception of the final drive vs EWU.

Yup 50+ points. Can't believe anyone would ask about defense re Eastern game



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

EWU just had its string of 13 straight 500+ yard games snapped by all of 25 yards. When you can show me a team that stops EWU I'll be all ears. Do our other games not count?

Our other games do indeed count. The defense has been less than stellar in the 4th quarter of every one of our games against D-I opponents so far this season, but the EWU game was the only one in which it actually cost us a victory. And I'll guarantee you that NDSU wouldn't allow EWU to gain 500 yards or score 22 4th quarter points.

Oh, excuse me, I forgot. We're supposed to play offense like EWU and defense like NDSU or its not good enough. Thanks I'll remember that. Again, we gave up 15 points in the fourth, not 22.

Of course that's not what I expect. If we were as good as EWU on offense, and as good as NDSU on defense, we should be playing in the SEC, not the BSC. I was just responding to your comment that no team could stop their offense, and I was pointing out that I can think of at least one team that could.

[codecat]

So a theme this year seems to be the Cats getting up big, and letting teams back in the game. In years past I would attribute this to both conservative offense and defense with a 2+ score lead. However it seems our offense finally likes to go for the jugular - whether they've succeeded or not is debatable but the desire and playcalling is there.

The defense is another story. We start to play prevent, which is the same thing we've done in years past with some success. However the big difference this year versus those other years is our front 4. With Daly, Gale, Schreibeis, etc all out there as pass rush specialists, our DLine was able to get to the QB on obvious passing situations, which is what happens late in the 3rd and 4th when we are up. They could pin their ears back and only worry about getting to the QB. But when we play soft defense, with a 4 man rush that simply cannot get to the QB on their own, that's when teams start to find success throwing the ball and get themselves back into the game.

Unfortunately I think our defense is going to have to have the same mentality as our offense, stay aggressive and attack. We always talk about keeping the pedal to the metal on offense, well I think our defense is going to have to do the same.

Irregardless of what one thinks of the the style of defense we play, I think you absolutely nail the reason teams seem to and can move the ball on us when they are trying to get back into the game.

[77matcat]

I have greatly enjoyed watching our first four games. The offense is a nice change. I will also enjoy the rest of our games.

Having said that, I believe our defense is good but it probably won't get us far into the playoffs if at all. Not sure if it's skills, coaching or both.

Am convinced that D wins championships and at this point doesn't look like one is in the cards for us.

Hope I'm wrong


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Can you give some examples? With the game still hanging in the balance we've played very well on D with exception of the final drive vs EWU.

It wasn't just the final drive in the EWU game. The defense allowed 22 points in the 4th quarter, and we squandered a 14-point 4th quarter lead. That shouldn't ever happen to a championship caliber defense, even against a great offensive team like EWU. We got away with it against average/bad teams like UCA and UND, but I think we may get bitten again when playing better teams, if we don't start doing a better job of locking down 4th quarter leads.

Sorry, but there's only one EWU and you can't seriously be blaming the D for that loss and that one game can't seriously be the only game worth evaluating in determining if a team has a good or bad defense. The defense allowed 15 points in The fourth not 22.

So rather than blaming the defense, you would blame an offense that scored 51 points??? Gotcha.

Good point!!!

Actually I do think allowing a team to score 50+ could be considered a good defensive outing. Coach fish would and should be delighted.

Seriously. If you stopped football fans on the street and asked them if allowing a team to score 50 would be considered a good defensive game, how many do you think would answer yes.

Played better than last year and I believe all played hard, but allowing 50 points isn't a good defensive game.


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[luckyirishguy25]

I think this team really hasn't played to its potential, on defense. Watching games to me it looks like most, not all, are still trying to figure it out. keep up mistakes and that's half the battle. Luckily our O is strong enough to carry us through most of the schedule, but I think given a few more weeks the D should start looking really solid.

[onceacat]

I certainly understand the concern with the 4 the quarter defense performance. Some of it is valid: in particular, depth is a huge concern. Missing Marino really hurt in the ewoo game. And there has been zero depth at lb. I remember the defense looking really gassed in the ArkSt game. The d spent 35 or 40 min going toe to toe with a pretty dynamic offense.

Against UCA, the offense gave up the ball, can't remember if it was a fumble or int, at midfield, scored against the Cat 2s. Helped by a weird safety call...game never really got close though.

Against UND, cats built a nice 3 score lead. Sioux were content to punch it in between the tackles for 4 yards a pop. If they weren't going to play for the win, who are we to argue. Again, the end result was never in doubt. FWIW, the offense wasn't doing any favors by controlling the ball...

Which brings me to EWU. I honestly think the cats let this one get away by being TOO dynamic on offense. Weird, right? But the more I think about it, the more convinced I am that the eagles can only be that bad on defense as a conscious decision. They can only score (mostly) when the ball is in Kupps/Adams' hands. I honestly believe that their defensive strategy is to get the ball out of their opponents hands is as few plays as possible. In eagle-land, a quick TD (SJ 70 yard run or 50 yard pass) is much preferable to a 10 min drive that ends in a FG.

Cat defense forced ewoo to punt 3 times, had 3 takeaways, & forced 1 field goal. Cat defense held 8 times out of 12 on 3rd down. That's pretty good. But the offense couldn't convert 4th &1 twice in the 4 the Q. Convert either of those (or breakers dropped pass) and we win.

So, no. NDSU wouldn't have given up 15 points in the 4th. But they would have held the ball for 10-12 minutes, and wouldn't have turned it over with 70-80 seconds to play. This might not be a championship defense, but it should be good enough to put the cats in a position to make the playoffs. It's a fair shake better than EWUs, and some voters are still picking the eagles as #1.

[TomCat88]

That's a good post onceacat(always a cat, right?)

I agree with everything you say there, but here's a simple thing that, while not deep, is very effective for evaluating how any team as a unit played beyond winning, regardless of the opponent.

In baseball, if you're ahead by two or more runs going into the ninth, you've played well to that point. If you don't allow the other team to get the tying run to the plate, you've played a good game. As long as you never put the other team in position to tie or go ahead, then as a team you've done well.

In basketball, if you're ahead by five or more with two minutes to go and you never let the opposing team have the ball down four or less, you've played a good game. As long as you never put the other team in position to tie or go ahead, then as a team you've done well.

In football, if you're ahead by nine points with less than 10 minutes to play and you never let the opposition have the ball with a chance to tie or go ahead, then as a team you've done well.

And so on...in all those scenarios the opponent never had a serious chance to win the game.

Lots of imperfect teams, I'd say a majority of them, were able to win championships. A lot of 10 point wins could just as easily been 24 point wins, while a lot of 28 point wins could just as easily been 14 point wins. A lot of games where the opponent gains 400 yards could've just as easily been 300 yard games. Etc., etc. There's usually just a couple plays a game that make things either seem closer or more lopsided than they actually were.

Stats aren't all that valuable if you're factoring in what teams do after the game has been decided. Some teams get big leads and sub out and change their style. Some teams get in big holes and lose focus. If you back and look at the stats prior to that, you get a better picture.

First level, you just want to win. Second level, you want to win handily as in the scenarios above. Third level, you want to win going away (pull away in the second half). Fourth level, you want a blow out from the start.

[allcat]

Ash said he is working with that analytics company, I wonder what they have to say about playing with a lead. Is it better to try and crush your opponent, or wiser to play safer and still get the W?