NCAA Rules and MSU

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wbtfg
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NCAA Rules and MSU

Post by wbtfg » Fri Apr 18, 2014 3:30 pm

One thing that I found really interesting in Mark Emmert's interviews over the past couple weeks is that it sounded like the NCAA was on it's way to allowing students to get the full cost of attendance paid for in their full-ride scholarship packages, rather than just Tuition, Room/Board, and Books. At MSU, I think this would work out to be roughly $3,500/year/full ride athlete.

My interpretation is that the big 5 conferences would likely be required to fill this gap, but, it would be optional at all other schools. Would MSU have the means to be one of the first BSC schools to offer an additional $3500 for scholarship aid? That could be a huge advantage over other schools that may not have the fan support.

It sounds like this would mainly pertain to students who are offered full rides (partials/walk ons wouldn't qualify). What would it take?


Football: 63 Scholarships (not all are full ride)
MBB: 12 Full Ride
WBB: 15 Full Ride
WVB: 12 Full Ride
*I assume none of the other sports offer full rides, or at least not enough to drastically skew results.

So if MSU wants to make this happen we would need to commit an additional $136k per year on scholarships. I wonder if that's doable? Also, is it doable for any of our other BSC foes (UM, EWU, Weber...etc)? If yes, then we need to be ahead of the curve on this.....


What other looming decisions could potentially positively/negatively impact MSU Athletics?



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Re: NCAA Rules and MSU

Post by Bobcat Steve » Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:42 pm

I may be clueless what would the $3500 cover



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wbtfg
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Re: NCAA Rules and MSU

Post by wbtfg » Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:00 pm

Transportation/personal expenses



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Re: NCAA Rules and MSU

Post by p8nted » Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:57 pm

Yep. Transportation to and from school, gas money, eating out money, Laundry money, movie night. Basically a personal budget since rules say they can't have a part time job during season and year around training makes having a part time job tough anyway even during the offseason.

I think this is an FBS issue not an FCS issue. I know the MWC and the AAC both voted to pay full expenses for athletes a few years ago but the small BB only division 1 teams all voted no in the NCAA and killed it. That is one reason why the P5 don't want the small BB only schools deciding what they can and can't do.

It could hurt MSU in recruiting the borderline FBS/FCS kid if a MWC/CUSA/Sun Belt team is offering full cost of attendance that is a pretty big deal compared to MSU only offering Books, Tuition, and room and board.



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Re: NCAA Rules and MSU

Post by TomCat88 » Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:42 pm

The 63 for football are usually split up among 85 players. I would guess the stipend would be doled out proportionally.


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Re: NCAA Rules and MSU

Post by John K » Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:47 am

TomCat88 wrote:The 63 for football are usually split up among 85 players. I would guess the stipend would be doled out proportionally.
I'm not sure that's accurate. From what I've heard and read about this issue, I interpreted it as only full scholly athletes, in any sport, being eligible for a stipend. My guess is that stipulation is designed specifically to allow schools to avoid giving stipends to most athletes who compete in non-revenue sports, since I believe most of them only have partial schollies at most schools.



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Re: NCAA Rules and MSU

Post by Hawks86 » Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:12 am

It all starts Thursday when they vote on the new governance structure . Stay tuned :P


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Re: NCAA Rules and MSU

Post by wbtfg » Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:57 am

The way it stands now, are Pell grant eligible student athletes allowed to have Pell Grants make up the personal expenses?



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Re: NCAA Rules and MSU

Post by TIrwin24 » Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:26 pm

This is crap.

Not only are they receiving a free tuition, with meal plans, but now they're getting a raise in their allotted free money?

Maybe make these students apply for student loans that will help create a bit more incentive to continue with college knowing that they will have to pay back the loans in the future.


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Re: NCAA Rules and MSU

Post by SonomaCat » Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:34 pm

TIrwin24 wrote:This is crap.

Not only are they receiving a free tuition, with meal plans, but now they're getting a raise in their allotted free money?

Maybe make these students apply for student loans that will help create a bit more incentive to continue with college knowing that they will have to pay back the loans in the future.
Why is it okay for a kid on an academic scholarship to receive these kinds of things, but not for student-athletes? Or, for that matter, why shouldn't athletes be able to earn whatever the free market will bear?



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Re: NCAA Rules and MSU

Post by CelticCat » Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:38 pm

TIrwin24 wrote:This is crap.

Not only are they receiving a free tuition, with meal plans, but now they're getting a raise in their allotted free money?

Maybe make these students apply for student loans that will help create a bit more incentive to continue with college knowing that they will have to pay back the loans in the future.
I've been on the fence about this. I think this is fair. They aren't allowed to have jobs during the season, and as another poster mentioned in the offseason nowadays you are expected to train pretty much year round.

That being said they could get a job during the summer and make $3500. But I don't think giving these kids a few bucks is a bad idea.

In the past I have been of the opinion that they do get paid, in the form of a free education. But the demands of that free education often make it hard to earn any money for living expenses.

If there are 16 weeks in a semester, that means for 32 weeks in a year they will received about $109 per week. Just enough for gas and a few extra meals.


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Re: NCAA Rules and MSU

Post by kyle_sample » Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:50 pm

First off, football is an equivalency sport meaning the program has 63 scholarships, it can use them any way they want. At the FBS level, football is a head-count sport, which means the 85 (? I think that's the right total) scholarships programs are given have to be used, 1 scholarship for 1 player, no breaking them up.

The difference between scholarship amounts and cost of attendance is mandated by the NCAA. From what I've been told by compliance officers at numerous schools, the NCAA was worried some schools would act liberally in the "cost of attendance" for certain athletes, essentially jacking the rate way up, which would in turn increase his/her grant-in-aid (scholarship) and allow him/her to benefit from the actual difference.

The NCAA board brought this up for a vote a few years ago, but it was denied by the membership schools, many of which, like Montana State, don't know where they would get the money to make up for the difference. If you take a low estimate of MSU's scholarships, say 250, and multiply that by $3,500 it comes to a total of $875,000. Where is MSU going to get that amount? That's why I asked Emmert if the NCAA board could adopt a proposal that forced the BCS conferences to subsidize the difference. If the board put this proposal to the members, made up only of division I schools, it would likely pass in a landslide; NCAA membership is largely made up from schools like Montana State, which would likely accept the help. He would only say that's one of the areas the NCAA is looking in to.



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Re: NCAA Rules and MSU

Post by kyle_sample » Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:56 pm

wbtfg wrote:The way it stands now, are Pell grant eligible student athletes allowed to have Pell Grants make up the personal expenses?

All scholarship athletes are urged to apply for other scholarships that don't somehow interfere with the scholarship they receive, or to apply to FAFSA to help make up the gap.



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Re: NCAA Rules and MSU

Post by Hawks86 » Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:07 pm

The restructuring of Div. I football begins

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story ... ubdivision" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


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Re: NCAA Rules and MSU

Post by TomCat88 » Tue Apr 22, 2014 7:51 pm

Hawks86 wrote:The restructuring of Div. I football begins

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story ... ubdivision" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That's good. I think it's good to have sports teams aligned in divisions so that there's fair competition throughout. The FBS has never really been just one division for football. It is two divisions posing as one.


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Re: NCAA Rules and MSU

Post by WalkOn79 » Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:05 pm

So what's this do to the FBS? Or the FCS for that matter?


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Re: NCAA Rules and MSU

Post by TomCat88 » Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:12 pm

WalkOn79 wrote:So what's this do to the FBS? Or the FCS for that matter?


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I guess that's to be determined. My guess is the conferences in the FBS left out of the big five (Mtn. West, MAC, etc.) will eventually form their own playoff system. The FCS and DII/DIII will remain the same.

I think it will increase the amount of money that comes to the NCAA and then to the other divisions, which will allow the NCAA to put together higher quality playoffs and other amenities.

Just a quick guess.


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Re: NCAA Rules and MSU

Post by Darth Yoda » Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:59 pm

This could shake out in many directions, but rest assured, the Cats will be auditioning at Arkansas State this August. The FBS was never actually at just one level just like Tom mentioned, but the same can be said of the FCS. Monmouth got a taste of that reality. The question is what are the metics that define this new 2nd tier and whether or not a few of the high end BSC schools can hit those metrics.



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Re: NCAA Rules and MSU

Post by [cat_bracket] » Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:35 am

I believe the main metric will be money. If that second tier lowers its scholarship limit from 85 to 70-75, then maybe MSU will look at it. Adding 22 scholarships (from the current 63 to 85) to the budget is probably asking too much of the BOR and especially the MT legislature. Adding 22 men's schollies means adding roughly the same women's. Also need coaches, travel for the new women's team(s). There may be some more revenue coming from the NCAA, but I doubt it covers much of that.



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Re: NCAA Rules and MSU

Post by John K » Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:45 am

[cat_bracket] wrote:I believe the main metric will be money. If that second tier lowers its scholarship limit from 85 to 70-75, then maybe MSU will look at it. Adding 22 scholarships (from the current 63 to 85) to the budget is probably asking too much of the BOR and especially the MT legislature. Adding 22 men's schollies means adding roughly the same women's. Also need coaches, travel for the new women's team(s). There may be some more revenue coming from the NCAA, but I doubt it covers much of that.
You can bet that the main winners financially from this reorganization, will be the schools in the "big 5" conferences. FCS and lower tier FBS schools won't see much, if any, increase in revenue from TV contracts, et al. I think it's impossible to predict all the future ramifications with any degree of accuracy, except that the rich will get richer.



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