Best player in the Big Sky in 2014 is ...

[[cat_bracket]]

no high horse here. not fired up either. just asked colter a question as I've read his writings countless times and his wording and placement of his comments were different than usual. not a big deal. just an interesting perspective is all...

I wasn't trying to slight Tanner Roderick in the least. More, I was trying to praise Cooper Kupp. In my opinion, Kupp has honed the craft of playing receiver as aptly as anyone in FCS history already and he's only played one year. He attacks the ball in the air as well as anyone I've ever seen at this level.

Roderick is a great athlete with potential, but an unproven player as he enters his fourth year of college football. As a freshman, Kupp has more yards in individual games against Montana, Southern Utah, Idaho State, Cal Poly, Portland State and Towson than Roderick has all season.

I agree that Roderick is a better pure athlete than Kupp. But I made that statement to praise Kupp's work ethic and to not set up unrealistic expectations for Roderick that I see him having almost no chance of living up to. Roderick will not score 21 touchdowns in his Bobcat career. Kupp scored 21 touchdowns his first year of college football.

Junior Adams and Beau Baldwin absolutely gush about Kupp, both saying he's the hardest worker they've coached. I've never heard anyone at MSU say similar things about Roderick. They praise his athleticism and his potential often.

I think you're putting too much emphasis on stats. A player can be equally valuable without the eye-popping numbers.

The term "stats don't lie" comes to mind.

They don't lie. But people put too much emphasis on them a lot. For instance Henry Ellard had more TDs, catches and yards than Jerry Rice in 1988. Rice, despite what the stats say, was a better WR that year. Every year. He was also more valuable as his Super Bowl MVP that year would say.

[Silenoz]

I don't think Kupp is nearly as good an athlete as TRod. I predict his numbers will plummet this year with every coach in the league figuring out ways to stop him and EWU's offense. Ashton Clark (83 receptions, 1,233 yards, 10 TDs) is gone.

Kupp played hoops, but was nowhere close to TRod in that sport. TRod also played a much more challenging position in HS. Once he focuses on WR he'll be a force, but won't get up to Kupp's numbers due to the style of offense we run.

Kupp is already one of the best players in FCS, and he's only a sophomore. Anticipating that his numbers will "plummet" (especially in a defensively weak league like the Big Sky) is probably wishful thinking at best. And I wouldn't put too much stock into the loss of Clark, EWU obviously has a gift at re-loading at WR.

Roderick has a ways to go before he should be compared to Kupp

[[cat_bracket]]

I don't think Kupp is nearly as good an athlete as TRod. I predict his numbers will plummet this year with every coach in the league figuring out ways to stop him and EWU's offense. Ashton Clark (83 receptions, 1,233 yards, 10 TDs) is gone.

Kupp played hoops, but was nowhere close to TRod in that sport. TRod also played a much more challenging position in HS. Once he focuses on WR he'll be a force, but won't get up to Kupp's numbers due to the style of offense we run.

Kupp is already one of the best players in FCS, and he's only a sophomore. Anticipating that his numbers will "plummet" (especially in a defensively weak league like the Big Sky) is probably wishful thinking at best. And I wouldn't put too much stock into the loss of Clark, EWU obviously has a gift at re-loading at WR.

Roderick has a ways to go before he should be compared to Kupp

No one is comparing him to Kupp. People are saying he has that kind of potential as a WR. Athletically there is no comparison. TRod is a better athlete.

Almost across the board in every sport at every level when a player has a season like Kupp just had its followed by a drop off. AP just had one last year. McGhee (the two-time BSC MVP) did from from frosh to soph years.

[Silenoz]

No one is comparing him to Kupp.

I'd say most of this thread is doing exactly that... including your posts

[[cat_bracket]]

No one is comparing him to Kupp.

I'd say most of this thread is doing exactly that... including your posts

No one is comparing TRod's production as a college player to Kupp, which is what you were framing your comments around and therefore what I'm responding to. There have comparisons, but those were limited to athletic ability with an example of their HS careers.

[bobcat99]

I don't think Kupp is nearly as good an athlete as TRod. I predict his numbers will plummet this year with every coach in the league figuring out ways to stop him and EWU's offense. Ashton Clark (83 receptions, 1,233 yards, 10 TDs) is gone.

Kupp played hoops, but was nowhere close to TRod in that sport. TRod also played a much more challenging position in HS. Once he focuses on WR he'll be a force, but won't get up to Kupp's numbers due to the style of offense we run.

Kupp is already one of the best players in FCS, and he's only a sophomore. Anticipating that his numbers will "plummet" (especially in a defensively weak league like the Big Sky) is probably wishful thinking at best. And I wouldn't put too much stock into the loss of Clark, EWU obviously has a gift at re-loading at WR.

Roderick has a ways to go before he should be compared to Kupp

No one is comparing him to Kupp. People are saying he has that kind of potential as a WR. Athletically there is no comparison. TRod is a better athlete.

Almost across the board in every sport at every level when a player has a season like Kupp just had its followed by a drop off. AP just had one last year. McGhee (the two-time BSC MVP) did from from frosh to soph years.

To use your Jerry Rice comparison again, there were a lot of WR's that were much better athletes than he was. What set him above was his precision and work-ethic.

Sound familiar? And even if Kupp does has a drop-off, he'll still be incredibly productive. Hell, if his TD catches decrease by 50%, he would still have 10 TD's…that's still very, very good.

Essentially what I'm saying is that just because you're more talented physically does not mean that you have more potential.

[Silenoz]

No one is comparing him to Kupp.

I'd say most of this thread is doing exactly that... including your posts

No one is comparing TRod's production as a college player to Kupp, which is what you were framing your comments around and therefore what I'm responding to. There have comparisons, but those were limited to athletic ability with an example of their HS careers.

Dude, most of this thread is comparing (among other things) their:

- work ethic
- other ethics/issues
- production
- speed
- athleticism

...but whatever, moving on. My answer would be Kupp or Adams. Hard to argue with the guy who finishes 2nd in the Payton voting, or the guy who climbs to the top of the WR heap as a frosh

[[cat_bracket]]

I don't think Kupp is nearly as good an athlete as TRod. I predict his numbers will plummet this year with every coach in the league figuring out ways to stop him and EWU's offense. Ashton Clark (83 receptions, 1,233 yards, 10 TDs) is gone.

Kupp played hoops, but was nowhere close to TRod in that sport. TRod also played a much more challenging position in HS. Once he focuses on WR he'll be a force, but won't get up to Kupp's numbers due to the style of offense we run.

Kupp is already one of the best players in FCS, and he's only a sophomore. Anticipating that his numbers will "plummet" (especially in a defensively weak league like the Big Sky) is probably wishful thinking at best. And I wouldn't put too much stock into the loss of Clark, EWU obviously has a gift at re-loading at WR.

Roderick has a ways to go before he should be compared to Kupp

No one is comparing him to Kupp. People are saying he has that kind of potential as a WR. Athletically there is no comparison. TRod is a better athlete.

Almost across the board in every sport at every level when a player has a season like Kupp just had its followed by a drop off. AP just had one last year. McGhee (the two-time BSC MVP) did from from frosh to soph years.

To use your Jerry Rice comparison again, there were a lot of WR's that were much better athletes than he was. What set him above was his precision and work-ethic.

Sound familiar? And even if Kupp does has a drop-off, he'll still be incredibly productive. Hell, if his TD catches decrease by 50%, he would still have 10 TD's…that's still very, very good.

Essentially what I'm saying is that just because you're more talented physically does not mean that you have more potential.

Cool. I'm glad to see you agree with me.

[[cat_bracket]]

No one is comparing him to Kupp.

I'd say most of this thread is doing exactly that... including your posts

No one is comparing TRod's production as a college player to Kupp, which is what you were framing your comments around and therefore what I'm responding to. There have comparisons, but those were limited to athletic ability with an example of their HS careers.

Dude, most of this thread is comparing (among other things) their:

- work ethic
- other ethics/issues
- production
- speed
- athleticism

...but whatever, moving on. My answer would be Kupp or Adams. Hard to argue with the guy who finishes 2nd in the Payton voting, or the guy who climbs to the top of the WR heap as a frosh

Whatever indeed.

[TomCat88]

no high horse here. not fired up either. just asked colter a question as I've read his writings countless times and his wording and placement of his comments were different than usual. not a big deal. just an interesting perspective is all...

I wasn't trying to slight Tanner Roderick in the least. More, I was trying to praise Cooper Kupp. In my opinion, Kupp has honed the craft of playing receiver as aptly as anyone in FCS history already and he's only played one year. He attacks the ball in the air as well as anyone I've ever seen at this level.

Roderick is a great athlete with potential, but an unproven player as he enters his fourth year of college football. As a freshman, Kupp has more yards in individual games against Montana, Southern Utah, Idaho State, Cal Poly, Portland State and Towson than Roderick has all season.

I agree that Roderick is a better pure athlete than Kupp. But I made that statement to praise Kupp's work ethic and to not set up unrealistic expectations for Roderick that I see him having almost no chance of living up to. Roderick will not score 21 touchdowns in his Bobcat career. Kupp scored 21 touchdowns his first year of college football.

Junior Adams and Beau Baldwin absolutely gush about Kupp, both saying he's the hardest worker they've coached. I've never heard anyone at MSU say similar things about Roderick. They praise his athleticism and his potential often.

Good deal. I'm back on my Roderick could be a Kupp-esque-type player horse. We hang on your every word, Colter, so have a heart next time.

[Bobcat Steve]

no high horse here. not fired up either. just asked colter a question as I've read his writings countless times and his wording and placement of his comments were different than usual. not a big deal. just an interesting perspective is all...

I wasn't trying to slight Tanner Roderick in the least. More, I was trying to praise Cooper Kupp. In my opinion, Kupp has honed the craft of playing receiver as aptly as anyone in FCS history already and he's only played one year. He attacks the ball in the air as well as anyone I've ever seen at this level.

Roderick is a great athlete with potential, but an unproven player as he enters his fourth year of college football. As a freshman, Kupp has more yards in individual games against Montana, Southern Utah, Idaho State, Cal Poly, Portland State and Towson than Roderick has all season.

I agree that Roderick is a better pure athlete than Kupp. But I made that statement to praise Kupp's work ethic and to not set up unrealistic expectations for Roderick that I see him having almost no chance of living up to. Roderick will not score 21 touchdowns in his Bobcat career. Kupp scored 21 touchdowns his first year of college football.

Junior Adams and Beau Baldwin absolutely gush about Kupp, both saying he's the hardest worker they've coached. I've never heard anyone at MSU say similar things about Roderick. They praise his athleticism and his potential often.

Good deal. I'm back on my Roderick could be a Kupp-esque-type player horse. We hang on your every word, Colter, so have a heart next time.

I think those comparisons are some what unfair as Kupp had a lot more catch attempts and I hate to say better passes to catch, Which encompasses the whole offense,I think we will do a lot better this year.

[catsrback76]

no high horse here. not fired up either. just asked colter a question as I've read his writings countless times and his wording and placement of his comments were different than usual. not a big deal. just an interesting perspective is all...

I wasn't trying to slight Tanner Roderick in the least. More, I was trying to praise Cooper Kupp. In my opinion, Kupp has honed the craft of playing receiver as aptly as anyone in FCS history already and he's only played one year. He attacks the ball in the air as well as anyone I've ever seen at this level.

Roderick is a great athlete with potential, but an unproven player as he enters his fourth year of college football. As a freshman, Kupp has more yards in individual games against Montana, Southern Utah, Idaho State, Cal Poly, Portland State and Towson than Roderick has all season.

I agree that Roderick is a better pure athlete than Kupp. But I made that statement to praise Kupp's work ethic and to not set up unrealistic expectations for Roderick that I see him having almost no chance of living up to. Roderick will not score 21 touchdowns in his Bobcat career. Kupp scored 21 touchdowns his first year of college football.

Junior Adams and Beau Baldwin absolutely gush about Kupp, both saying he's the hardest worker they've coached. I've never heard anyone at MSU say similar things about Roderick. They praise his athleticism and his potential often.

I think you're putting too much emphasis on stats. A player can be equally valuable without the eye-popping numbers.

The term "stats don't lie" comes to mind.

They don't lie. But people put too much emphasis on them a lot. For instance Henry Ellard had more TDs, catches and yards than Jerry Rice in 1988. Rice, despite what the stats say, was a better WR that year. Every year. He was also more valuable as his Super Bowl MVP that year would say.

Well yea, but 21 TD's in one year don't "accidentally" happen! So, if given a chance to draft Kupp, do you take him now, or do you pass?

[[cat_bracket]]

no high horse here. not fired up either. just asked colter a question as I've read his writings countless times and his wording and placement of his comments were different than usual. not a big deal. just an interesting perspective is all...

I wasn't trying to slight Tanner Roderick in the least. More, I was trying to praise Cooper Kupp. In my opinion, Kupp has honed the craft of playing receiver as aptly as anyone in FCS history already and he's only played one year. He attacks the ball in the air as well as anyone I've ever seen at this level.

Roderick is a great athlete with potential, but an unproven player as he enters his fourth year of college football. As a freshman, Kupp has more yards in individual games against Montana, Southern Utah, Idaho State, Cal Poly, Portland State and Towson than Roderick has all season.

I agree that Roderick is a better pure athlete than Kupp. But I made that statement to praise Kupp's work ethic and to not set up unrealistic expectations for Roderick that I see him having almost no chance of living up to. Roderick will not score 21 touchdowns in his Bobcat career. Kupp scored 21 touchdowns his first year of college football.

Junior Adams and Beau Baldwin absolutely gush about Kupp, both saying he's the hardest worker they've coached. I've never heard anyone at MSU say similar things about Roderick. They praise his athleticism and his potential often.

I think you're putting too much emphasis on stats. A player can be equally valuable without the eye-popping numbers.

The term "stats don't lie" comes to mind.

They don't lie. But people put too much emphasis on them a lot. For instance Henry Ellard had more TDs, catches and yards than Jerry Rice in 1988. Rice, despite what the stats say, was a better WR that year. Every year. He was also more valuable as his Super Bowl MVP that year would say.

Well yea, but 21 TD's in one year don't "accidentally" happen! So, if given a chance to draft Kupp, do you take him now, or do you pass?

Pass. If he did that in the SEC or Big Ten, etc. I'd take him, but not the BSC. If he has another year like 2013, I'd change my mind.

[catsrback76]

no high horse here. not fired up either. just asked colter a question as I've read his writings countless times and his wording and placement of his comments were different than usual. not a big deal. just an interesting perspective is all...

I wasn't trying to slight Tanner Roderick in the least. More, I was trying to praise Cooper Kupp. In my opinion, Kupp has honed the craft of playing receiver as aptly as anyone in FCS history already and he's only played one year. He attacks the ball in the air as well as anyone I've ever seen at this level.

Roderick is a great athlete with potential, but an unproven player as he enters his fourth year of college football. As a freshman, Kupp has more yards in individual games against Montana, Southern Utah, Idaho State, Cal Poly, Portland State and Towson than Roderick has all season.

I agree that Roderick is a better pure athlete than Kupp. But I made that statement to praise Kupp's work ethic and to not set up unrealistic expectations for Roderick that I see him having almost no chance of living up to. Roderick will not score 21 touchdowns in his Bobcat career. Kupp scored 21 touchdowns his first year of college football.

Junior Adams and Beau Baldwin absolutely gush about Kupp, both saying he's the hardest worker they've coached. I've never heard anyone at MSU say similar things about Roderick. They praise his athleticism and his potential often.

I think you're putting too much emphasis on stats. A player can be equally valuable without the eye-popping numbers.

The term "stats don't lie" comes to mind.

They don't lie. But people put too much emphasis on them a lot. For instance Henry Ellard had more TDs, catches and yards than Jerry Rice in 1988. Rice, despite what the stats say, was a better WR that year. Every year. He was also more valuable as his Super Bowl MVP that year would say.

Well yea, but 21 TD's in one year don't "accidentally" happen! So, if given a chance to draft Kupp, do you take him now, or do you pass?

Pass. If he did that in the SEC or Big Ten, etc. I'd take him, but not the BSC. If he has another year like 2013, I'd change my mind.

Ok, well, you'd probably have passed on Randy Moss too, so I think that works.

[marceag]

Shawn Johnson should be on that list...

[marceag]

I don't think Kupp is nearly as good an athlete as TRod. I predict his numbers will plummet this year with every coach in the league figuring out ways to stop him and EWU's offense. Ashton Clark (83 receptions, 1,233 yards, 10 TDs) is gone.

Kupp played hoops, but was nowhere close to TRod in that sport. TRod also played a much more challenging position in HS. Once he focuses on WR he'll be a force, but won't get up to Kupp's numbers due to the style of offense we run.

Kupp is already one of the best players in FCS, and he's only a sophomore. Anticipating that his numbers will "plummet" (especially in a defensively weak league like the Big Sky) is probably wishful thinking at best. And I wouldn't put too much stock into the loss of Clark, EWU obviously has a gift at re-loading at WR.

Roderick has a ways to go before he should be compared to Kupp

No one is comparing him to Kupp. People are saying he has that kind of potential as a WR. Athletically there is no comparison. TRod is a better athlete.

Almost across the board in every sport at every level when a player has a season like Kupp just had its followed by a drop off. AP just had one last year. McGhee (the two-time BSC MVP) did from from frosh to soph years.

Your dislike towards EWU is strong...

[catgrad05]

Shawn Johnson should be on that list...

Interesting point. Should we be arguing best player that is retuning for 2014? That would be Kupp in a lot of peoples eyes. Best chance to have a huge production increase? A great case could be made for Johnson. Is it safe to say that Shawn Johnson was the most under utilized home run hitter in the BSC last year? I would say yes

[TomCat88]

Shawn Johnson should be on that list...

Interesting point. Should we be arguing best player that is retuning for 2014? That would be Kupp in a lot of peoples eyes. Best chance to have a huge production increase? A great case could be made for Johnson. Is it safe to say that Shawn Johnson was the most under utilized home run hitter in the BSC last year? I would say yes

I don't know if he was the most under utilized in the BSC, but he was definitely under utilized. He needed 15-18 touches per game, not counting returns. He had about 10. That would've not only given him the chance to hit the HR, but also saved on the wear-n-tear on Kirk.

[Clinton T]

Vernon Adams. Won't even be close.

[Joe Bobcat]

Vernon Adams. Won't even be close.

I'll grant you that Vernon Adams is the odds on favorite but I will go out on the thinnest of limbs here and say that Vernon Adams won't even be close to being the best player in the BSC in 2014.