Lance Armstrong ... doping

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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping

Post by allcat » Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:41 pm

Bay Area Cat wrote:Well, if nothing else, we've finally found one person who believes that OJ was innocent. That's something. :D

He's also good at lifting recent rhetorical arguments from David Stern. :wink:

It seems a little strange to blame the public's view on Lance Armstrong on the "media" argument ... isn't this the same Lance Armstrong that was just about the biggest American hero ever? The same guy that the press was fawning over for years?

I don't think the media, collectively, had any motivation to unjustly take down Lance Armstrong. I think the media has only reported on the story because there has been a whole lot of smoke surrounding this story.
You're right, but what I am saying is that you cannot get the whole picture from what you hear in the media. They give you the edited, sensational headline. When they get it wrong the put in where no one reads it. I'm not saying the media is out to get him. just reporting the salacious details.


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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping

Post by John K » Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:15 pm

allcat wrote:
Bay Area Cat wrote:Well, if nothing else, we've finally found one person who believes that OJ was innocent. That's something. :D

He's also good at lifting recent rhetorical arguments from David Stern. :wink:

It seems a little strange to blame the public's view on Lance Armstrong on the "media" argument ... isn't this the same Lance Armstrong that was just about the biggest American hero ever? The same guy that the press was fawning over for years?

I don't think the media, collectively, had any motivation to unjustly take down Lance Armstrong. I think the media has only reported on the story because there has been a whole lot of smoke surrounding this story.
You're right, but what I am saying is that you cannot get the whole picture from what you hear in the media. They give you the edited, sensational headline. When they get it wrong the put in where no one reads it. I'm not saying the media is out to get him. just reporting the salacious details.
I can't speak for anyone else, but for me personally, the media has not influenced my opinion at all. My belief that he is guilty is based mostly on the fact that it seems unlikely that the most dominant rider was clean, when virtually all of the other top riders of that era were using PED. The media coverage didn't have anything to do with it...it's just simple logic.



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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping

Post by MashTun » Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:38 pm

John K wrote:
allcat wrote:
Bay Area Cat wrote:Well, if nothing else, we've finally found one person who believes that OJ was innocent. That's something. :D

He's also good at lifting recent rhetorical arguments from David Stern. :wink:

It seems a little strange to blame the public's view on Lance Armstrong on the "media" argument ... isn't this the same Lance Armstrong that was just about the biggest American hero ever? The same guy that the press was fawning over for years?

I don't think the media, collectively, had any motivation to unjustly take down Lance Armstrong. I think the media has only reported on the story because there has been a whole lot of smoke surrounding this story.
You're right, but what I am saying is that you cannot get the whole picture from what you hear in the media. They give you the edited, sensational headline. When they get it wrong the put in where no one reads it. I'm not saying the media is out to get him. just reporting the salacious details.
I can't speak for anyone else, but for me personally, the media has not influenced my opinion at all. My belief that he is guilty is based mostly on the fact that it seems unlikely that the most dominant rider was clean, when virtually all of the other top riders of that era were using PED. The media coverage didn't have anything to do with it...it's just simple logic.
There are many riders that have been busted, but it is definitely not "virtually all" of the riders. To me that implies 90% or above and that just isn't true. Do you actually follow the sport? I have followed the tour since the Lemond days in the early 80's


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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping

Post by SonomaCat » Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:33 pm

An update:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... malertNEWS
USADA, a nonprofit organization that operates under the auspices of the World Anti-Doping Association, said more than 10 former teammates of Mr. Armstrong's will testify that he doped during his cycling career. It also said it had obtained blood-testing results from 2009 and 2010 that allegedly show Mr. Armstrong doped during those years.



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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping

Post by TIrwin24 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:23 am

I simply don't understand why they don't just drop it? To me, it sounds like the USADA has some weird vendetta against Armstrong and they really are only going to use former associates and teammates of Armstrong to try and convince (through words, not actual evidence) that Armstrong was guilty. This is just stupid.

And, to top it off, they have effictively ruined his career as a potential Triathlete.
The agency, which is responsible for enforcing doping rules for Olympic sports, doesn't have the authority to bring criminal charges. As a result of the case being initiated, Mr. Armstrong, a former rider with the U.S. Postal Service team, has been banned from competition in Ironman triathlons. He took up that sport after retiring from cycling in 2011.


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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping

Post by ilovethecats » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:44 am

serious question. if what this link said is true, why would ten plus riders be willing to testify against him? that seems like a lot and i don't understand what they have to gain. you'd think many of them that were actually caught cheating would want this all to go away too. very confusing and frankly i'm kinda over hearing about it.



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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping

Post by TIrwin24 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:38 am

ilovethecats wrote:serious question. if what this link said is true, why would ten plus riders be willing to testify against him? that seems like a lot and i don't understand what they have to gain. you'd think many of them that were actually caught cheating would want this all to go away too. very confusing and frankly i'm kinda over hearing about it.
That's my question as well. I really don't know what all of these guys think that they're gonna get out of this other than a bunch of negative press and some unwarranted headaches.


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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping

Post by John K » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:08 pm

TIrwin24 wrote:
ilovethecats wrote:serious question. if what this link said is true, why would ten plus riders be willing to testify against him? that seems like a lot and i don't understand what they have to gain. you'd think many of them that were actually caught cheating would want this all to go away too. very confusing and frankly i'm kinda over hearing about it.
That's my question as well. I really don't know what all of these guys think that they're gonna get out of this other than a bunch of negative press and some unwarranted headaches.
Did you ever consider that at least some of those riders were actually clean, and they resent that a guy who is known to have cheated has become a legend in the sport? I don't believe that none of the ten cheated because I think a majority of the riders from that era used POD, but I don't doubt that at least a few of them may have been clean. For those that did cheat, they may harbor some resentments towards Armstrong as well, if they know that cycling's "golden boy" cheated and got away with it, while they all got caught. I don't follow the sport closely enough to know who the 10 "sources" may be, and whether or not any or all of them are known to have also used POD, but either way I don't think it's that shocking that some of his former teammates are willing to testify against him. Plus, it's rumored that he's not that well liked by many of his former teammates and others in the cycling world, so I'm sure many of them wouldn't mind seeing him knocked down a peg or two.



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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping

Post by CapitalCityCat » Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:37 pm

My conspiracy theory? Lance has an identical twin. They were separated at birth when their parents got divorced and were each raised by a different parent. In their teen years, they met at a summer camp, and noticed that their was an odd similarity yet familiar connection with each other. Lance was the cool, laid back, cycling twin from the U.S. while Chance was the prim and proper lad from the UK. Banned to the isolation cabin, the two boys discover that they are in fact twins and hatch a diabolical plot to one day rule the cycling world. When camp ends, they switch parents but the father, Vance, whom had raised Lance, notices that Chance cannot ride a bike without training wheels. Hilarity abounds when the twins decide to reunite the parents and the family sets out on a madcap adventure where Lance will dominate the cycling world, while once prim and proper Chance secretly steps in for Lance during blood draws and urine specimens.

Don't miss Lance Armstrong and Chance Armstrong in The Parent Trap: Tour de Farce. Coming soon to a theater near you.


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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping

Post by SonomaCat » Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:14 pm

TIrwin24 wrote:
ilovethecats wrote:serious question. if what this link said is true, why would ten plus riders be willing to testify against him? that seems like a lot and i don't understand what they have to gain. you'd think many of them that were actually caught cheating would want this all to go away too. very confusing and frankly i'm kinda over hearing about it.
That's my question as well. I really don't know what all of these guys think that they're gonna get out of this other than a bunch of negative press and some unwarranted headaches.
Justice?



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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping

Post by TIrwin24 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:27 pm

Bay Area Cat wrote:
TIrwin24 wrote:
ilovethecats wrote:serious question. if what this link said is true, why would ten plus riders be willing to testify against him? that seems like a lot and i don't understand what they have to gain. you'd think many of them that were actually caught cheating would want this all to go away too. very confusing and frankly i'm kinda over hearing about it.
That's my question as well. I really don't know what all of these guys think that they're gonna get out of this other than a bunch of negative press and some unwarranted headaches.
Justice?
How many times has he been investigated and in turn been found clean every time?

There's got to be some sort of limit that somebody can be investigated and found innocent.


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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping

Post by SonomaCat » Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:53 pm

He's never been found to be innocent by an investigation.



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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping

Post by allcat » Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:19 pm

Bay Area Cat wrote:He's never been found to be innocent by an investigation.
Innocence is very hard to prove. This also should not be the hurdle.


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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping

Post by SonomaCat » Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:29 pm

allcat wrote:
Bay Area Cat wrote:He's never been found to be innocent by an investigation.
Innocence is very hard to prove. This also should not be the hurdle.
Agreed. And Agreed.

Of course, you presumably also agree that my statement was true.

I think it's very safe to assume that this organization will base its findings upon scientific evidence and other substantive facts, and also that it has far more first-hand knowledge of this situation than any of us. So it seems like everyone interested in finding out the truth (whatever that may be) would be more than happy to let this group do its investigation and then present its findings for all to see.



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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping

Post by SonomaCat » Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:58 pm

And Armstrong fires back ... by trying to shut down the hearings/investigation:

http://news.yahoo.com/lance-armstrong-c ... ories.html

I still don't know why he doesn't just sue the former teammates who have already publicly testified against him. If they are truly lying, then he'd have a slam dunk case of slander/libel.

Of course, that might force him to take the stand under oath, and that is, perhaps, something he's not interested in doing.



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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping

Post by TIrwin24 » Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:25 pm

Lance must have read my July 2nd post.

Image


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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping

Post by MashTun » Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:29 pm

Bay Area Cat wrote:
TIrwin24 wrote:
ilovethecats wrote:serious question. if what this link said is true, why would ten plus riders be willing to testify against him? that seems like a lot and i don't understand what they have to gain. you'd think many of them that were actually caught cheating would want this all to go away too. very confusing and frankly i'm kinda over hearing about it.
That's my question as well. I really don't know what all of these guys think that they're gonna get out of this other than a bunch of negative press and some unwarranted headaches.
Justice?
I'd say it's less justice, than a concerted effort to get one guy. His TDF titles were 7 or 8 years ago.

If the entity was primarily concerned with justice, why not at least review the top 20 finishers in the TDF each of the years they're looking at. The "they're all dopers" crowd here is so convinced that "nearly everyone" doped, let's really get after it. They won't, since that's not what it's primarily about. He's a big prize to bag. IMHO


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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping

Post by ilovethecats » Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:21 pm

i don't follow the sport much although i did for a time as a little kid as my folks were friends with greg lemond and while he was already done racing, he piqued my interest. anyway...i was under the impression that they were investigating a lot of riders and not just armstrong. haven't they alreadt stripped titles and banned racers? i thought that was part of the reason they had former racers and teammates coming out saying armstrong was using ped's too?

no disagreement they are going after the big game with this one though. but i don't think they would just make things up simply to take down the best the sport has ever seen. could be off on that as i really don't follow the sport. pretty interesting although i feel this has been going on for like 10 years now. #-o



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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping

Post by SonomaCat » Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:41 pm

MashTun wrote:
Bay Area Cat wrote:
TIrwin24 wrote:
ilovethecats wrote:serious question. if what this link said is true, why would ten plus riders be willing to testify against him? that seems like a lot and i don't understand what they have to gain. you'd think many of them that were actually caught cheating would want this all to go away too. very confusing and frankly i'm kinda over hearing about it.
That's my question as well. I really don't know what all of these guys think that they're gonna get out of this other than a bunch of negative press and some unwarranted headaches.
Justice?
I'd say it's less justice, than a concerted effort to get one guy. His TDF titles were 7 or 8 years ago.

If the entity was primarily concerned with justice, why not at least review the top 20 finishers in the TDF each of the years they're looking at. The "they're all dopers" crowd here is so convinced that "nearly everyone" doped, let's really get after it. They won't, since that's not what it's primarily about. He's a big prize to bag. IMHO
It's seems like the "big names" in baseball were the ones everyone was focused on as well.



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