Lance Armstrong ... doping

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TIrwin24
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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping

Post by TIrwin24 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:56 pm

My question is: Is it considered illegal if you're doing something to your body that hasn't thought to be tested yet?

A great example of this is Bill Romanowski. His usage of supplements and different nutritional combinations were so far ahead of the testing standards of the time that when time came to rule something illegal, he was already on to trying something else to improve his playing ability.

PS. Romo's book is a really interesting read that I definitely recommend to any sports fan.


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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping

Post by SonomaCat » Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:13 pm

Is your question related to Armstrong in some way?



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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping

Post by ilovethecats » Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:50 pm

for me it's not really that he cheated. like baseball...i think a TON of these riders were cheating. it's the fact that he ruined so many lives in the process to maintain his innocence. people were fired. people lost time and money defending him. employees for livestrong got crushed. greg lemond and his businesses were hammered. armstrong didn't just cheat and lie. he literally ruined peoples lives and that is going to be hard to forget.

my guess is we see a lot of lawsuits on the way against him.

what a mess. but pretty predictable.

**EDIT**
found a very interesting link in regards to my thoughts above.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more- ... -1.1188512" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping

Post by John K » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:08 pm

ilovethecats wrote:for me it's not really that he cheated. like baseball...i think a TON of these riders were cheating. it's the fact that he ruined so many lives in the process to maintain his innocence. people were fired. people lost time and money defending him. employees for livestrong got crushed. greg lemond and his businesses were hammered. armstrong didn't just cheat and lie. he literally ruined peoples lives and that is going to be hard to forget.

my guess is we see a lot of lawsuits on the way against him.

what a mess. but pretty predictable.
I agree completely. His vindictive actions and words towards so many people are despicable in my opinion. That's why he should be judged more harshly than the other riders who cheated, or PED users in other sports for that matter. Barry Bonds for example is certainly not widely admired by baseball fans, but at least he didn't feel compelled to "Gillooly" (how many of you get that reference?) all those who spoke out (truthfully) against him.



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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping

Post by tampa_griz » Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:19 pm

ilovethecats wrote:for me it's not really that he cheated. like baseball...i think a TON of these riders were cheating. it's the fact that he ruined so many lives in the process to maintain his innocence. people were fired. people lost time and money defending him. employees for livestrong got crushed. greg lemond and his businesses were hammered. armstrong didn't just cheat and lie. he literally ruined peoples lives and that is going to be hard to forget.

my guess is we see a lot of lawsuits on the way against him.

what a mess. but pretty predictable.

**EDIT**
found a very interesting link in regards to my thoughts above.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more- ... -1.1188512" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thanks for the link. I'd heard abstract stories about Armstrong's strong-arm retaliations but didn't know the specifics. Good grief.....he doesn't just sound like a cheater but almost sounds like a sociopath. What a sh!tty deal. His was one of those stories you really wanted to believe.



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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping

Post by ilovethecats » Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:42 pm

tampa_griz wrote:
ilovethecats wrote:for me it's not really that he cheated. like baseball...i think a TON of these riders were cheating. it's the fact that he ruined so many lives in the process to maintain his innocence. people were fired. people lost time and money defending him. employees for livestrong got crushed. greg lemond and his businesses were hammered. armstrong didn't just cheat and lie. he literally ruined peoples lives and that is going to be hard to forget.

my guess is we see a lot of lawsuits on the way against him.

what a mess. but pretty predictable.

**EDIT**
found a very interesting link in regards to my thoughts above.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more- ... -1.1188512" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thanks for the link. I'd heard abstract stories about Armstrong's strong-arm retaliations but didn't know the specifics. Good grief.....he doesn't just sound like a cheater but almost sounds like a sociopath. What a sh!tty deal. His was one of those stories you really wanted to believe.
i agree. i would have loved to believe it too. and i did for a long time. i mentioned before that i have met greg lemond a few times as he's a friend of a friend. after hearing him talk and mention some things he was dealing with i knew that lance wasn't the guy we all thought he was. not that it matters but i predict we're going to learn much more about some of the things armstrong was doing behind the scenes and how many lives he ruined.



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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping

Post by SonomaCat » Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:10 pm

tampa_griz wrote:
ilovethecats wrote:for me it's not really that he cheated. like baseball...i think a TON of these riders were cheating. it's the fact that he ruined so many lives in the process to maintain his innocence. people were fired. people lost time and money defending him. employees for livestrong got crushed. greg lemond and his businesses were hammered. armstrong didn't just cheat and lie. he literally ruined peoples lives and that is going to be hard to forget.

my guess is we see a lot of lawsuits on the way against him.

what a mess. but pretty predictable.

**EDIT**
found a very interesting link in regards to my thoughts above.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more- ... -1.1188512" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thanks for the link. I'd heard abstract stories about Armstrong's strong-arm retaliations but didn't know the specifics. Good grief.....he doesn't just sound like a cheater but almost sounds like a sociopath. What a sh!tty deal. His was one of those stories you really wanted to believe.
I have to assume he truly is a sociopath in some clinical sort of way. I really don't think it's possible for a non-sociopath to lie for as long as he has and to willfully attempt to destroy as many people as he has to cover those lies. A normal person wouldn't be able to pull off that level of antisocial behavior.



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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping

Post by wbtfg » Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:17 pm

I tried doping before a bike ride once and it just made me slow and hungry. Not sure what the big deal is.
Last edited by wbtfg on Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping

Post by grizzh8r » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:53 pm

wbtfg wrote:I tried doping before a bike ride one and it just made me slow and hungry. Not sure what the big deal is.
Image


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94VegasCat wrote:Are you for real? That is just a plain ol dumb paragraph! You just nailed every note in the Full Reetard sing-a-long choir!!!
:rofl:

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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping

Post by tampa_griz » Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:10 pm

Bay Area Cat wrote:
tampa_griz wrote:
ilovethecats wrote:for me it's not really that he cheated. like baseball...i think a TON of these riders were cheating. it's the fact that he ruined so many lives in the process to maintain his innocence. people were fired. people lost time and money defending him. employees for livestrong got crushed. greg lemond and his businesses were hammered. armstrong didn't just cheat and lie. he literally ruined peoples lives and that is going to be hard to forget.

my guess is we see a lot of lawsuits on the way against him.

what a mess. but pretty predictable.

**EDIT**
found a very interesting link in regards to my thoughts above.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more- ... -1.1188512" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thanks for the link. I'd heard abstract stories about Armstrong's strong-arm retaliations but didn't know the specifics. Good grief.....he doesn't just sound like a cheater but almost sounds like a sociopath. What a sh!tty deal. His was one of those stories you really wanted to believe.
I have to assume he truly is a sociopath in some clinical sort of way. I really don't think it's possible for a non-sociopath to lie for as long as he has and to willfully attempt to destroy as many people as he has to cover those lies. A normal person wouldn't be able to pull off that level of antisocial behavior.
And he couldn't just let it stand at one title. Nope, he had to cheat his way to seven. You'd think a "normal" cheater would just leave well-enough alone at the first one and go, "Phew! I pulled it off!. Imagine a cheating poker player winning the World Series but keeps going back to do it another six times. It's weird.



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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping

Post by allcat » Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:24 pm

tampa_griz wrote:
Bay Area Cat wrote:
tampa_griz wrote:
ilovethecats wrote:for me it's not really that he cheated. like baseball...i think a TON of these riders were cheating. it's the fact that he ruined so many lives in the process to maintain his innocence. people were fired. people lost time and money defending him. employees for livestrong got crushed. greg lemond and his businesses were hammered. armstrong didn't just cheat and lie. he literally ruined peoples lives and that is going to be hard to forget.

my guess is we see a lot of lawsuits on the way against him.

what a mess. but pretty predictable.

**EDIT**
found a very interesting link in regards to my thoughts above.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more- ... -1.1188512" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thanks for the link. I'd heard abstract stories about Armstrong's strong-arm retaliations but didn't know the specifics. Good grief.....he doesn't just sound like a cheater but almost sounds like a sociopath. What a sh!tty deal. His was one of those stories you really wanted to believe.
I have to assume he truly is a sociopath in some clinical sort of way. I really don't think it's possible for a non-sociopath to lie for as long as he has and to willfully attempt to destroy as many people as he has to cover those lies. A normal person wouldn't be able to pull off that level of antisocial behavior.
And he couldn't just let it stand at one title. Nope, he had to cheat his way to seven. You'd think a "normal" cheater would just leave well-enough alone at the first one and go, "Phew! I pulled it off!. Imagine a cheating poker player winning the World Series but keeps going back to do it another six times. It's weird.
Every one of those guys were doping, he was better at it, why would you not keep going if everybody is doing it and they can't seem to catch you. Do you really think that the oversight people were really trying to catch anyone?


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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping

Post by ilovethecats » Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:52 pm

allcat wrote: Every one of those guys were doping, he was better at it, why would you not keep going if everybody is doing it and they can't seem to catch you. Do you really think that the oversight people were really trying to catch anyone?
i agree many of them were using and said as much all along. not EVERY one of them mind you...but certainly a lot. that said...it's not the point. the guy flat out ruined peoples lives in the process. he didn't just maintain his "innocence". he blasted, intimidated, ridiculed, anyone that was in his path and that is just bizarre to me.

although i assume this will be the stance that all of the armstrong supporters will take now. they ignore all of the innocent victims and point to the fact that "every" rider was cheating....lance was just better at it. :lol:



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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping

Post by allcat » Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:23 pm

ilovethecats wrote:
allcat wrote: Every one of those guys were doping, he was better at it, why would you not keep going if everybody is doing it and they can't seem to catch you. Do you really think that the oversight people were really trying to catch anyone?
i agree many of them were using and said as much all along. not EVERY one of them mind you...but certainly a lot. that said...it's not the point. the guy flat out ruined peoples lives in the process. he didn't just maintain his "innocence". he blasted, intimidated, ridiculed, anyone that was in his path and that is just bizarre to me.

although i assume this will be the stance that all of the armstrong supporters will take now. they ignore all of the innocent victims and point to the fact that "every" rider was cheating....lance was just better at it. :lol:
I was not addressing whether it was all right, I was just addressing the question as to why he would keep going. I also don't care what happens to him, I only cared about the Tour de France because an American was winning. Other sports that I don't care about are Soccer, UFC, and womens sports, except for beach volleyball.


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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping

Post by ilovethecats » Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:44 pm

allcat wrote:
ilovethecats wrote:
allcat wrote: Every one of those guys were doping, he was better at it, why would you not keep going if everybody is doing it and they can't seem to catch you. Do you really think that the oversight people were really trying to catch anyone?
i agree many of them were using and said as much all along. not EVERY one of them mind you...but certainly a lot. that said...it's not the point. the guy flat out ruined peoples lives in the process. he didn't just maintain his "innocence". he blasted, intimidated, ridiculed, anyone that was in his path and that is just bizarre to me.

although i assume this will be the stance that all of the armstrong supporters will take now. they ignore all of the innocent victims and point to the fact that "every" rider was cheating....lance was just better at it. :lol:
I was not addressing whether it was all right, I was just addressing the question as to why he would keep going. I also don't care what happens to him, I only cared about the Tour de France because an American was winning. Other sports that I don't care about are Soccer, UFC, and womens sports, except for beach volleyball.
ya sorry i just re-read it and i wasn't directing that at you personally. i just think this will be the stance many of his supporters take. many were absolutely convinced he wasn't cheating and to save face rather than just saying how wrong they were they will play the cars that everyone else was doing it too. and even if that was true...no one went to the lengths that armstrong did and ruined so many innocent people along the way. yuck. :(



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Re: Lance Armstrong ... doping

Post by John K » Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:11 am

tampa_griz wrote:
Bay Area Cat wrote:
tampa_griz wrote:
ilovethecats wrote:for me it's not really that he cheated. like baseball...i think a TON of these riders were cheating. it's the fact that he ruined so many lives in the process to maintain his innocence. people were fired. people lost time and money defending him. employees for livestrong got crushed. greg lemond and his businesses were hammered. armstrong didn't just cheat and lie. he literally ruined peoples lives and that is going to be hard to forget.

my guess is we see a lot of lawsuits on the way against him.

what a mess. but pretty predictable.

**EDIT**
found a very interesting link in regards to my thoughts above.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more- ... -1.1188512" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thanks for the link. I'd heard abstract stories about Armstrong's strong-arm retaliations but didn't know the specifics. Good grief.....he doesn't just sound like a cheater but almost sounds like a sociopath. What a sh!tty deal. His was one of those stories you really wanted to believe.
I have to assume he truly is a sociopath in some clinical sort of way. I really don't think it's possible for a non-sociopath to lie for as long as he has and to willfully attempt to destroy as many people as he has to cover those lies. A normal person wouldn't be able to pull off that level of antisocial behavior.
And he couldn't just let it stand at one title. Nope, he had to cheat his way to seven. You'd think a "normal" cheater would just leave well-enough alone at the first one and go, "Phew! I pulled it off!. Imagine a cheating poker player winning the World Series but keeps going back to do it another six times. It's weird.
That's just human nature though. For most people, if they get away with something once, they''ll try it again, and then again, and then again...until they finally get busted. I always think about that when I hear about people who've been caught embezzling large sums of money from their employers. In most cases, I'm sure they didn't initially intend for it to be an ongoing practice. They were probably "a little short" one month, and intended for it to be just a one time thing, often times probably even fully intending to replace the money once they "got back on their feet". But after getting away with it once, I can imagine them thinking (perhaps subconsciously) "hmmm...that was easier than I thought it would be"...and then doing it again. The more times they get away with it, the easier it is to repeat the behavior. Eventually, after getting away with it for so long, they begin thinking that they're so smart, they just might be able to get away with it forever. But of course, that is never the case. There may be no truer adage than the one about being able to "fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but not all the people all the time".



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