New 4 Game Redshirt Rule

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Rich K
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New 4 Game Redshirt Rule

Post by Rich K » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:16 am

First off, I apologize for trying to get this answered in the Murray thread. I did not want to make this about him. But his situation got me thinking about what kinds of situations this rule might be applied. This linked story seems to be a good start. The more I read this the more I like it. I think it will allow teams to extend the roster a bit, and at the FCS level, that can be especially important.

I especially like the point about how it might keep red-shirted players more engaged with the team. Knowing that he might be called on again to play would foster enthusiasm.

https://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/201 ... shirt.html
"This change promotes not only fairness for college athletes, but also their health and well-being," NCAA Division I Council chair and Miami athletic director Blake James said in a statement. "Redshirt football student-athletes are more likely to remain engaged with the team, and starters will be less likely to feel pressure to play through injuries. Coaches will appreciate the additional flexibility and ability to give younger players an opportunity to participate in limited competition."

The change will allow players to maintain a year of eligibility in the event of injuries of other factors require them to play and opens the door to greater development earlier in a players' college career.

The new rule will have the greatest impact on true freshmen as they get acclimated later in the season, players recovering from offseason injuries that might otherwise miss a whole year and players who were going to redshirt but would've lost a year of eligibility late in the season due to a lack of depth and injuries at their position.


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Darth Yoda
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Re: New 4 Game Redshirt Rule

Post by Darth Yoda » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:52 am

I really like the rule. It always bugged me when a kid would sit out as a RS for most of the season but then lose an entire year of eligibility after only playing in a game or two late. The concept that this will help prevent players from playing through injuries late in the year really resonates too. I'm excited that these freshmen will have all fall to improve and prove they belong on the field instead of just the couple week of summer camp until the coach "declares" who is going to RS.

There was an "under the table" way of doing this before through an injury appeal process (that only applied in the first handful of games in a season), but that rule was a grey area and ripe for exploitation. This rule makes sense.



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Re: New 4 Game Redshirt Rule

Post by kmax » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:53 am

players who were going to redshirt but would've lost a year of eligibility late in the season due to a lack of depth and injuries at their position.
This to me is the big one at this level and one of those "it's about damn time" type of things. I can think of a few times where a kid has lost a whole year of eligibility for less than a game's worth of playing time because we had no choice. Can't remember his name but I believe we lost a full year for one kid for just a few plays at center in that mess at McNeese in the playoffs in 2002.


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Re: New 4 Game Redshirt Rule

Post by Grizaddict » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:07 am

I’m still curious if it will only apply to true freshman or any redshirt regardless of year in school. Will be interesting to see how they handle that one.

Also there are rules under this that will still eliminate eligibility if one of the games played is a post season game. So it will be interesting to see how coaches strategically use a player, whether it’s early or late or they save them for depth.



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Re: New 4 Game Redshirt Rule

Post by Cat Grad » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:34 am

kmax wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:53 am
players who were going to redshirt but would've lost a year of eligibility late in the season due to a lack of depth and injuries at their position.
This to me is the big one at this level and one of those "it's about damn time" type of things. I can think of a few times where a kid has lost a whole year of eligibility for less than a game's worth of playing time because we had no choice. Can't remember his name but I believe we lost a full year for one kid for just a few plays at center in that mess at McNeese in the playoffs in 2002.
Kramer's nephew, Blake Woolfe? Remember how mad Coach got when he found out about having lost a year of eligibity for certain.



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Re: New 4 Game Redshirt Rule

Post by Montanabob » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:50 am

Cat Grad wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:34 am
kmax wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:53 am
players who were going to redshirt but would've lost a year of eligibility late in the season due to a lack of depth and injuries at their position.
This to me is the big one at this level and one of those "it's about damn time" type of things. I can think of a few times where a kid has lost a whole year of eligibility for less than a game's worth of playing time because we had no choice. Can't remember his name but I believe we lost a full year for one kid for just a few plays at center in that mess at McNeese in the playoffs in 2002.
Kramer's nephew, Blake Woolfe? Remember how mad Coach got when he found out about having lost a year of eligibity for certain.
Yeah but if you read the new rule, if you play in postseason game, burns the whole year. So if you don't play all season and play one play in the playoffs, you burned the year of eligibility.


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kmax
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Re: New 4 Game Redshirt Rule

Post by kmax » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:04 pm

Grizaddict wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:07 am
I’m still curious if it will only apply to true freshman or any redshirt regardless of year in school. Will be interesting to see how they handle that one.

Also there are rules under this that will still eliminate eligibility if one of the games played is a post season game. So it will be interesting to see how coaches strategically use a player, whether it’s early or late or they save them for depth.
Found the actual proposal when I was searching for this. Though will still have to wait for the final manual to see if they change any wording the fact that this proposal is marked 'Adopted' and shows the change to the manual makes me think it is probably pretty final.

https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/search/prop ... ?id=101282

The only change to the manual is an ammendment (bolded areas the new content):
12.8 Seasons of Competition: Five-Year Rule. A student-athlete shall not engage in more than four seasons of intercollegiate competition in any one sport (see Bylaws 12.02.5 and 14.3.3). An institution shall not permit a student-athlete to represent it in intercollegiate competition unless the individual completes all of his or her seasons of participation in all sports within the time periods specified below:

[12.8 unchanged.]

12.8.3 Criteria for Determining Season of Competition.

12.8.3.1 Minimum Amount of Competition. Any competition, regardless of time, during a season in an intercollegiate sport shall be counted as a season of competition in that sport, except as provided in Bylaws 12.8.3.1.1, 12.8.3.1.2, 12.8.3.1.4, 12.8.3.1.5 and 12.8.3.1.6. This provision is applicable to intercollegiate athletics competition conducted by a two-year or four-year collegiate institution at the varsity or subvarsity level.

[12.8.3.1.1 through 12.8.3.1.5 unchanged.]

12.8.3.1.6 Exception -- Football. In football, a student-athlete may compete in up to four contests in a season without using a season of competition.

[12.8.3.2 through 12.8.3.7 unchanged.]

[12.8.4 through 12.8.6 unchanged.]
It's pretty clear from this to me anyway that this in no way limits to just incoming freshman and allows for football players to play 4 years + 4 games in a 5th year (regardless of timing or ordering of those years).

It's also obvious if you read the rationale in the proposal that one of the reasonings for this is to limit the number of requests for the so called "medical red-shirt" or 5th year waiver for medical hardship. The rationale also points out many of the other points around acclimating, and allowing for not using a year when forced to use a player for depth and is obviously the source of many of the quotes from the stories about this.
Rationale: Under current legislation, a student-athlete who participates in one play of one contest uses a season of competition. This proposal would enhance student-athlete well-being by permitting a student-athlete, in football, to participate in up to four games without using a season of competition. The current rule often places coaches in a difficult position to decide whether to play a student-athlete in a limited amount of competition or to preserve the student-athlete's season of eligibility. The opportunity to play in a small number of games will ease this decision for coaches and help the student-athlete's development and transition to the college game. Additional flexibility with substitutes may allow starters and more experienced student-athletes additional rest and/or to feel less pressure to play through injuries. The opportunity to play will help student-athletes who might otherwise "redshirt" to remain engaged with the team and may reduce the number of transfers that occur annually in football. Another potential benefit of this legislation is the opportunity for younger student-athletes to participate in bowl games, which are often as much about preparing for the following season as completing the current season. This legislation is supported by the AFCA Board of Trustees. Finally, this proposal may reduce administrative burden by eliminating the need to process a medical hardship request if a student-athlete is injured after limited participation.
The rationale text also specifically points out the post-season aspect and would seem to indicate that post-season play is included in this rule change (to GA's question). Now waiting on the first FCS team to have their star player that started as a true-freshman sit out his 5th year only to come back for a four game playoff run...


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Re: New 4 Game Redshirt Rule

Post by kmax » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:06 pm

Montanabob wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:50 am
Cat Grad wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:34 am
kmax wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:53 am
players who were going to redshirt but would've lost a year of eligibility late in the season due to a lack of depth and injuries at their position.
This to me is the big one at this level and one of those "it's about damn time" type of things. I can think of a few times where a kid has lost a whole year of eligibility for less than a game's worth of playing time because we had no choice. Can't remember his name but I believe we lost a full year for one kid for just a few plays at center in that mess at McNeese in the playoffs in 2002.
Kramer's nephew, Blake Woolfe? Remember how mad Coach got when he found out about having lost a year of eligibity for certain.
Yeah but if you read the new rule, if you play in postseason game, burns the whole year. So if you don't play all season and play one play in the playoffs, you burned the year of eligibility.
Read the new rule? Where, it isn't technically published yet. I just posted the changes in my previous post that are a part of the adopted proposal and see nothing about this excluding postseason games from this and in fact the rationale as I pointed out specifically talks about this being a good way to allow younger players to play in the postseason to help prepare for the following year. If there is something else about this that is specific to the post-season that I have missed please cite a source.


“Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game because they almost always turn out to be—or to be indistinguishable from—self-righteous sixteen-year-olds possessing infinite amounts of free time.” -- Neal Stephenson, Cryptonomicon

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Re: New 4 Game Redshirt Rule

Post by Grizaddict » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:38 pm

Kmax, good find. Sounds like the 4 games are for any redshirt regardless of year. Interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing.



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Re: New 4 Game Redshirt Rule

Post by Cat Grad » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:48 pm

Montanabob wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:50 am
Cat Grad wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:34 am
kmax wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:53 am
players who were going to redshirt but would've lost a year of eligibility late in the season due to a lack of depth and injuries at their position.
This to me is the big one at this level and one of those "it's about damn time" type of things. I can think of a few times where a kid has lost a whole year of eligibility for less than a game's worth of playing time because we had no choice. Can't remember his name but I believe we lost a full year for one kid for just a few plays at center in that mess at McNeese in the playoffs in 2002.
Kramer's nephew, Blake Woolfe? Remember how mad Coach got when he found out about having lost a year of eligibity for certain.
Yeah but if you read the new rule, if you play in postseason game, burns the whole year. So if you don't play all season and play one play in the playoffs, you burned the year of eligibility.
You're correct. At the small college level if they participate in the tournament they forfeit their redshirt. At the bowl level, they forfeit their redshirt if they participate in a bowl.

They could have simplified by simply stating something to the effect "...lose their redshirt if they participate in a game upon the completion of the regular season."

Still, four games is a good place to begin. I know most coaches wanted six games because that redshirt year kills a lot of desire for kids. In a sense, think of what the hurricanes did to Florida State last year.



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