Krakauer book on um/grizz/msla...

[info197176]

I never did, many also attacked Donaldson and rightfully so, we're all not PR the excuse maker.

[PapaG]

I never did, many also attacked Donaldson and rightfully so, we're all not PR the excuse maker.

I was generalizing about egriz, but Bozeman did get get the national treatment from Sports Illustrated. In the end, the negative publicity helped expedite the transformation of not only the athletic department, but also the culture of the university, its alumni, and its boosters.

I've yet to see evidence, based both on message boards along with my trips home to Missoula, that any lessons have been learned at all at UM. Maybe this book will help get some in Missoula (and Griz fans elsewhere) out of the denial stage, but I'm not holding my breath on that happening. I'm guessing Krakaeur will get the Gwen Florio treatment, except without the blatant misogyny, so that will be nice.

[tampa_griz]

I was generalizing about egriz, but Bozeman did get get the national treatment from Sports Illustrated. In the end, the negative publicity helped expedite the transformation of not only the athletic department, but also the culture of the university, its alumni, and its boosters.

Really? Bozeman and MSU learned to stop encouraging a culture of drug-dealing and murder? I don't really believe that. I don't think they ever were. I guess I'm just not much of a "there is an x-culture down there" subscriber. I think we have laws and rules and that some people decide to break those laws. Hopefully we catch the ones that break the laws and punish them.

[PapaG]

I was generalizing about egriz, but Bozeman did get get the national treatment from Sports Illustrated. In the end, the negative publicity helped expedite the transformation of not only the athletic department, but also the culture of the university, its alumni, and its boosters.

Really? Bozeman and MSU learned to stop encouraging a culture of drug-dealing and murder? I don't really believe that. I don't think they ever were. I guess I'm just not much of a "there is an x-culture down there" subscriber. I think we have laws and rules and that some people decide to break those laws. Hopefully we catch the ones that break the laws and punish them.

These were former players, and even that being the case, coaches were fired, and accountability became the new theme at MSU. I'm actually happy for UM that they went outside of the Griz family when they hired Stitt. Haslam, at least, seems to get it, as does Engstrom. On egriz, people are still trying to get Engstrom fired, when every move he's made has been to clean up the image of UM. I find the same thing when I visit Missoula. It was everybody's fault except for the football team. It's either scapegoating, or it's denial, but it isn't healthy or productive when trying to shape the future. I've posted this before, but Haslam not re-hiring Hauck was more about the culture within the AD than it was about how good Bobby could be as the Griz coach. Guess what? Those "major donors" who threatened to withhold money are right back on board. It was a stupid exercise in power, and Haslam/Engstrom held strong. Good on them.

I'll add that I know that Jim O'Day is a good man, and a good friend, and yes, his ouster (along with Robin's) was not completely fair. I hope Jim gets another job in athletics at a school, because he really is talented at what he does. It was more of a booster issue at UM than anything, and that can happen when you promote an excellent fundraiser like O'Day to athletic director. The same thing happened at Oregon when they hired Pat Kilkenny as AD.

[tampa_griz]

Well Pflu and JO were fired too. Fuller wasn't a former player when he was arrested and documents indicated Gatewood was fronting his scholarship money to the other guys for drug purchases while he was a player. And lots of people on BN wanted Fields fired for the Kramer dismissal. Is that indicative of a "culture that doesn't learn"? I don't think so.

I'm not trying to make this a race Papa or dredge up old baggage. But cm'on.

[grizatwork]

PapaG,
I think the mistake you are making is thinking that egriz represents all of griz nation. I would be wrong if I thought you represented all of bobcat nation. You usually see the worst of people when they think they can say what they want under the guise of anonymity. Look at egriz closely. You see a handful of posters repeating the same thing. Same thing on this site. I am not going to be an apologist. There was some rough years in Missoula and much of it self inflicted by arrogance bred by success. Our actions bring the consequences they usually deserve.

[[cat_bracket]]

Based on the teaser at Krakauer's Facebook page it sounds like egriz will get some ink. He mentions 'grizz football fan sites' when talking about how women who press charges are attacked.

[SonomaCat]

Based on the teaser at Krakauer's Facebook page it sounds like egriz will get some ink. He mentions 'grizz football fan sites' when talking about how women who press charges are attacked.

Good research ... that's exactly what I was wondering about.

[[cat_bracket]]

Based on the teaser at Krakauer's Facebook page it sounds like egriz will get some ink. He mentions 'grizz football fan sites' when talking about how women who press charges are attacked.

Good research ... that's exactly what I was wondering about.

Thanks! Wow people have been being really nice to me since I switched from democrat to republican. Even BAC!

[Sportin' Life]

Based on the teaser at Krakauer's Facebook page it sounds like egriz will get some ink. He mentions 'grizz football fan sites' when talking about how women who press charges are attacked.

Good research ... that's exactly what I was wondering about.

That will be interesting to see what he says.

I stopped reading egriz for months because of the misogynistic crap I was reading on those threads, whether it be in posts that had the most erudite and flowery legalese language or crude references to actual people it was inappropriate uncalled for. I completely disagree with Papa that any fan base has a corner on any particular virtue or vice, but egriz is a cesspool. Somehow they managed to aggregate some of the worst of humanity over there.

[BWahlberg]

I find it funny how many people on egriz are refuting what is in a book and how wrong certain things are when it is not on sale for another 2 months.

Agreed, I think a lot of people are rushing to conclusions of what's going to be in it and how it's going to paint the UM and Missoula. I feel and fear that it's going to be really bad and I'm worried about it mostly because I live here, I love it here, and I really hope it doesn't hurt Missoula's appeal nationally. On the other hand this isn't some made-up fictional story this is the re-counting of issues that actually happened here so Missoula and the UM have to take these lumps. It does seem that this book is on prior issues and not exposing new or ongoing events, so I suppose the silver lining is that we're hopefully past that.

It would be interesting to go back and see what posters on here were saying before that big SI article on MSU's issues all those years ago. I bet there was some (but probably not as much) of a reaction that was similar before the article came out.

[BWahlberg]

I think the mistake you are making is thinking that egriz represents all of griz nation.

Unfortunately it does represent one of the very few places where "the public" can go to review what fans are saying. Fair or not it's the main spot an outsider can easily go to "see what Griz fans" are saying.

[SonomaCat]

I think the mistake you are making is thinking that egriz represents all of griz nation.

Unfortunately it does represent one of the very few places where "the public" can go to review what fans are saying. Fair or not it's the main spot an outsider can easily go to "see what Griz fans" are saying.

Yeah, that's one of downsides to these kinds of venues. A sense of perspective is often lost as to what % of the population is really being represented. So people with outrageous opinions will take over a thread along with a handful of others, and in doing so they reinforce the belief among themselves that their opinions are mainstream. Then the general public pops in and takes a look and concludes that the entire fanbase is crazy when in reality its just a handful of people saying the same things over and over and over while a vast majority of the fanbase has given up on them and has started ignoring those threads.

[MSUcantouchus]

Like with anything generalizing a whole group is dumb. There are bad people out there and some places have more than others. Painting a bunch of people as all bad can make someone money. Hopefully the truth is in there and he doesn't get carried away.

[[cat_bracket]]

There's a huge divide between male and female opinions on this from reading comments on the Missoulian and Facebook. Not surprisingly, but worth pointing out. Reinforcing the men are from Mars women are from Venus saying.

[PapaG]

PapaG,
I think the mistake you are making is thinking that egriz represents all of griz nation. I would be wrong if I thought you represented all of bobcat nation. You usually see the worst of people when they think they can say what they want under the guise of anonymity. Look at egriz closely. You see a handful of posters repeating the same thing. Same thing on this site. I am not going to be an apologist. There was some rough years in Missoula and much of it self inflicted by arrogance bred by success. Our actions bring the consequences they usually deserve.

I spend a lot of time in Missoula, and I find that egriz is fairly representative of the Griz fans I know there.

[[cat_bracket]]

PapaG,
I think the mistake you are making is thinking that egriz represents all of griz nation. I would be wrong if I thought you represented all of bobcat nation. You usually see the worst of people when they think they can say what they want under the guise of anonymity. Look at egriz closely. You see a handful of posters repeating the same thing. Same thing on this site. I am not going to be an apologist. There was some rough years in Missoula and much of it self inflicted by arrogance bred by success. Our actions bring the consequences they usually deserve.

I spend a lot of time in Missoula, and I find that egriz is fairly representative of the Griz fans I know there.

Well, of course they act like that when you're around acting like a complete F-stick. They're probably cool once you leave. Kind of like this place. Threads are pretty calm until you start posting your S--T!!

[catatac]

I think the mistake you are making is thinking that egriz represents all of griz nation.

Unfortunately it does represent one of the very few places where "the public" can go to review what fans are saying. Fair or not it's the main spot an outsider can easily go to "see what Griz fans" are saying.

Yeah, that's one of downsides to these kinds of venues. A sense of perspective is often lost as to what % of the population is really being represented. So people with outrageous opinions will take over a thread along with a handful of others, and in doing so they reinforce the belief among themselves that their opinions are mainstream. Then the general public pops in and takes a look and concludes that the entire fanbase is crazy when in reality its just a handful of people saying the same things over and over and over while a vast majority of the fanbase has given up on them and has started ignoring those threads.

Yep, this. Sort of reminds me of when the VA deal started swirling and my buddy made a comment like... "Those EWU fans are idiots. They're actually saying the only reason Oregon pulled VA away from EWU is because they are playing them in the season opener and they saw him beat OSU and almost beat the Huskies, so they figured it was worth a schollie just to not have to play against him... and he's going to ride the pine all season."

So my initial thought was, well of course that theory isn't want the majority of EWU fans think, but I instantly made the connection that somebody probably popped onto a message board and saw fans talking like that and assumed that was the general thought.

[PapaG]

Well, of course they act like that when you're around acting like a complete F-stick. They're probably cool once you leave. Kind of like this place. Threads are pretty calm until you start posting your S--T!!

Good Lord.

[Blackfoot Griz]

PapaG,
I think the mistake you are making is thinking that egriz represents all of griz nation. I would be wrong if I thought you represented all of bobcat nation. You usually see the worst of people when they think they can say what they want under the guise of anonymity. Look at egriz closely. You see a handful of posters repeating the same thing. Same thing on this site. I am not going to be an apologist. There was some rough years in Missoula and much of it self inflicted by arrogance bred by success. Our actions bring the consequences they usually deserve.

I spend a lot of time in Missoula, and I find that egriz is fairly representative of the Griz fans I know there.

Perhaps you need to hang out with some different people on this side of the divide. Most Griz fans that I know don't defend the football program at any cost. When the JJ story first came out, many were calling for his head on a platter and I was one of them. Not one Griz fan I know was happy when MSU was going through it's problems as it was a black eye for MSU and Montana. Please be careful when trying to paint with such a broad brush.