Krakauer book on um/grizz/msla...

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Re: Krakauer book on um/grizz/msla...

Post by PapaG » Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:44 pm

Blackfoot Griz wrote:
Perhaps you need to hang out with some different people on this side of the divide. Most Griz fans that I know don't defend the football program at any cost. When the JJ story first came out, many were calling for his head on a platter and I was one of them. Not one Griz fan I know was happy when MSU was going through it's problems as it was a black eye for MSU and Montana. Please be careful when trying to paint with such a broad brush.
I'm close to a lot of Griz boosters. My name is in your Hall of Champions as a donor. For me, it's good-natured ribbing from good friends, but when I venture to egriz, I read many of the same things that I hear in person in Missoula, only with what appears to be 100,000x more anger than the real thing. :D


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Re: Krakauer book on um/grizz/msla...

Post by [cat_bracket] » Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:10 am

Krakauer doesn't fiddly-fart around. This book will definitely rile the um fanbase to its core. It'll also highlight things that weren't discussed much. That's just how he rolls. It'll definitely be critical of athletes getting the star treatment and compare Johnson to nationally recognized athletes that skated by. Agree with it or not, that's what it is.

It'll also be greatly received by the female audience and that alone could put it in the national spotlight. What will be interesting will be the pushback by the "false claims" crowd. That could be just what the sexual assault activists want as they may be able to expose them if they take the bait.

Very intriguing.



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Re: Krakauer book on um/grizz/msla...

Post by golden77 » Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:50 pm

Will be interesting to see if ESPN game day spends any part of their pre game show talking about the Krakauer book . I'm betting yes.



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Re: Krakauer book on um/grizz/msla...

Post by [cat_bracket] » Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:56 am

golden77 wrote:Will be interesting to see if ESPN game day spends any part of their pre game show talking about the Krakauer book . I'm betting yes.
Not likely. GameDay is very focused on football and a party atmosphere. E60, Outside the Lines, or some other show hosted by Bob Ley might do something the week of that game depending on the national reaction.



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Re: Krakauer book on um/grizz/msla...

Post by [cat_bracket] » Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:17 am

PapaG wrote:
info197176 wrote:I never did, many also attacked Donaldson and rightfully so, we're all not PR the excuse maker.
I was generalizing about egriz, but Bozeman did get get the national treatment from Sports Illustrated. In the end, the negative publicity helped expedite the transformation of not only the athletic department, but also the culture of the university, its alumni, and its boosters.

I've yet to see evidence, based both on message boards along with my trips home to Missoula, that any lessons have been learned at all at UM. Maybe this book will help get some in Missoula (and Griz fans elsewhere) out of the denial stage, but I'm not holding my breath on that happening. I'm guessing Krakaeur will get the Gwen Florio treatment, except without the blatant misogyny, so that will be nice.
You called it.



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Re: Krakauer book on um/grizz/msla...

Post by Sportin' Life » Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:20 am

[cat_bracket] wrote:
PapaG wrote:
info197176 wrote:I never did, many also attacked Donaldson and rightfully so, we're all not PR the excuse maker.
I was generalizing about egriz, but Bozeman did get get the national treatment from Sports Illustrated. In the end, the negative publicity helped expedite the transformation of not only the athletic department, but also the culture of the university, its alumni, and its boosters.

I've yet to see evidence, based both on message boards along with my trips home to Missoula, that any lessons have been learned at all at UM. Maybe this book will help get some in Missoula (and Griz fans elsewhere) out of the denial stage, but I'm not holding my breath on that happening. I'm guessing Krakaeur will get the Gwen Florio treatment, except without the blatant misogyny, so that will be nice.
You called it.
Well, almost. Calling him 'krack-hore' has a slight tinge of misogyny.


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Re: Krakauer book on um/grizz/msla...

Post by [cat_bracket] » Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:21 am

Sportin' Life wrote:
Bay Area Cat wrote:
[cat_bracket] wrote:Based on the teaser at Krakauer's Facebook page it sounds like egriz will get some ink. He mentions 'grizz football fan sites' when talking about how women who press charges are attacked.
Good research ... that's exactly what I was wondering about.
That will be interesting to see what he says.

I stopped reading egriz for months because of the misogynistic crap I was reading on those threads, whether it be in posts that had the most erudite and flowery legalese language or crude references to actual people it was inappropriate uncalled for. I completely disagree with Papa that any fan base has a corner on any particular virtue or vice, but egriz is a cesspool. Somehow they managed to aggregate some of the worst of humanity over there.
Little did we know which egrizz post would be there. :lol: When I read the reference I was thinking you were messing around.



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Re: Krakauer book on um/grizz/msla...

Post by [cat_bracket] » Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:22 am

Sportin' Life wrote:
[cat_bracket] wrote:
PapaG wrote:
info197176 wrote:I never did, many also attacked Donaldson and rightfully so, we're all not PR the excuse maker.
I was generalizing about egriz, but Bozeman did get get the national treatment from Sports Illustrated. In the end, the negative publicity helped expedite the transformation of not only the athletic department, but also the culture of the university, its alumni, and its boosters.

I've yet to see evidence, based both on message boards along with my trips home to Missoula, that any lessons have been learned at all at UM. Maybe this book will help get some in Missoula (and Griz fans elsewhere) out of the denial stage, but I'm not holding my breath on that happening. I'm guessing Krakaeur will get the Gwen Florio treatment, except without the blatant misogyny, so that will be nice.
You called it.
Well, almost. Calling him 'krack-hore' has a slight tinge of misogyny.
True. I missed that detail. :)



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Re: Krakauer book on um/grizz/msla...

Post by Sportin' Life » Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:51 pm

[cat_bracket] wrote:
Sportin' Life wrote:
Bay Area Cat wrote:
[cat_bracket] wrote:Based on the teaser at Krakauer's Facebook page it sounds like egriz will get some ink. He mentions 'grizz football fan sites' when talking about how women who press charges are attacked.
Good research ... that's exactly what I was wondering about.
That will be interesting to see what he says.

I stopped reading egriz for months because of the misogynistic crap I was reading on those threads, whether it be in posts that had the most erudite and flowery legalese language or crude references to actual people it was inappropriate uncalled for. I completely disagree with Papa that any fan base has a corner on any particular virtue or vice, but egriz is a cesspool. Somehow they managed to aggregate some of the worst of humanity over there.
Little did we know which egrizz post would be there. :lol: When I read the reference I was thinking you were messing around.
I really can't express how amused I am --- especially around my wife who is slightly mortified.


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Re: Krakauer book on um/grizz/msla...

Post by PapaG » Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:22 pm

Sportin' Life wrote:
I really can't express how amused I am --- especially around my wife who is slightly mortified.
You do realize that your days of anonymity are likely over under that screen name, right? Somebody isn't going to accept the "I was being sarcastic" excuse, which I totally believe, by the way, and I won't be surprised if some women's organizations are right now trying to find out who you are, and to out you as a misogynist. Sometimes, it's better to leave the joke in your head. You never know these days when you'll end up national news!


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Re: Krakauer book on um/grizz/msla...

Post by Bobcatsinmso » Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:45 pm

The Costco in Missoula has a very large supply of the book, front and center. Several were snapped up while I was there this morning. A local book store called Fact and Fiction are also selling the book and giving all of the proceeds to the YWCA and First Step, which is a resource center that provides medical evaluations, forensic interviews, care coordination and referrals for child and adult victims of abuse or assault, here in Missoula. That is just one of the positive things that is happening as a result of this book.


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Krakauer book on um/grizz/msla...

Post by bobcatmaniac » Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:05 pm

Blackfoot Griz wrote:
PapaG wrote:
grizatwork wrote:PapaG,
I think the mistake you are making is thinking that egriz represents all of griz nation. I would be wrong if I thought you represented all of bobcat nation. You usually see the worst of people when they think they can say what they want under the guise of anonymity. Look at egriz closely. You see a handful of posters repeating the same thing. Same thing on this site. I am not going to be an apologist. There was some rough years in Missoula and much of it self inflicted by arrogance bred by success. Our actions bring the consequences they usually deserve.
I spend a lot of time in Missoula, and I find that egriz is fairly representative of the Griz fans I know there.
Perhaps you need to hang out with some different people on this side of the divide. Most Griz fans that I know don't defend the football program at any cost. When the JJ story first came out, many were calling for his head on a platter and I was one of them. Not one Griz fan I know was happy when MSU was going through it's problems as it was a black eye for MSU and Montana. Please be careful when trying to paint with such a broad brush.
You are truly crazy. I don't know a griz fan alive that wouldnt defend a grizzly if he or she was involved with a murder using a wood chipper as in "Fargo". They defend their own to the death. Funniest part of this fiasco is griz will defend their town, keep it in the public eye (Player Rep is already feeling his palms itch hopefully for lawsuits) so we all hear about it forever. They won't let the story die quickly. Good for them. And while they do they will bitch about enrollment going down the toilet.


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Re: Krakauer book on um/grizz/msla...

Post by SonomaCat » Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:32 am

What's crazy is to attribute the worst traits of a few people from a group over the entire group. I would hate it if people judged all MSU grads by the worst behaviors of a few of us.

egriz is not the voice of the entire UM fanbase. Fortunately, Bobcatnation.com is also not the voice of the entire Bobcat fanbase.



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Re: Krakauer book on um/grizz/msla...

Post by PapaG » Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:57 am

Bay Area Cat wrote:What's crazy is to attribute the worst traits of a few people from a group over the entire group. I would hate it if people judged all MSU grads by the worst behaviors of a few of us.

egriz is not the voice of the entire UM fanbase. Fortunately, Bobcatnation.com is also not the voice of the entire Bobcat fanbase.
When was the last time you were at a game in Missoula? Hell, when was the last time you were in Missoula at all? I'm there 4 times a year, and it's sad to me how Griz fans will go to any length to defend one of their players. If my opinion strikes you as "crazy," I suggest you leave your little bubble in SF once in a while and offer something other than insults to fellow Bobcat fans.

Flipping Know It All ... I thought you were "too busy" to post here anymore. Or was your pathetic opus just a literary exercise in getting attention for yourself and brag about your "new business?". I'm going with the latter.


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Re: Krakauer book on um/grizz/msla...

Post by SonomaCat » Sun Apr 26, 2015 11:17 am

PapaG wrote:
Bay Area Cat wrote:What's crazy is to attribute the worst traits of a few people from a group over the entire group. I would hate it if people judged all MSU grads by the worst behaviors of a few of us.

egriz is not the voice of the entire UM fanbase. Fortunately, Bobcatnation.com is also not the voice of the entire Bobcat fanbase.
When was the last time you were at a game in Missoula? Hell, when was the last time you were in Missoula at all? I'm there 4 times a year, and it's sad to me how Griz fans will go to any length to defend one of their players. If my opinion strikes you as "crazy," I suggest you leave your little bubble in SF once in a while and offer something other than insults to fellow Bobcat fans.

Flipping Know It All ... I thought you were "too busy" to post here anymore. Or was your pathetic opus just a literary exercise in getting attention for yourself and brag about your "new business?". I'm going with the latter.
Like I said, I would hate it if people judged all MSU grads by the worst behavior of a few of us.



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Re: Krakauer book on um/grizz/msla...

Post by Sportin' Life » Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:34 pm

I think in general, BAC, you are right, but maybe not in this instance. Definitely if you hear something like 'fans of that team all have filthy mouths' it is crap, but there is a real 'circling of the wagons' happening in Missoula. Right now there are a lot of good people in Griz nation that feel picked on by all of this, so naturally they have become insular. I can tell you first hand, that if you wear the Griz colors you are expected to hate Gwen Florio, and I think now Krakauer ... you are supposed to think those people have it out for the team and the fans. If you aren't a full believer in the idea that men are persecuted in this society, you are at least supposed to believe that what happened in Missoula was one of those rare cases where a person cried rape, so any insults hurled at the young woman, Krakauer, and Florio are allowed.

The whole thing reminds me of Nebraska football in the mid-90s. Nebraska fans had always gotten a bit of moral superiority through the 80s as they watched their rivals, Oklahoma win national championships. They took great pride in fielding tough teams without having the cockiness of Barry Switzer's (or Miami's) teams. Leading them was the pious never cursing, aw shucks farmboy Tom Osborne. Sure, there were the steroid rumors, but other than that most people thought of Nebraska teams as good wholesome salt of the earth types. But in the mid nineties players like Lawrence Philips and Christian Peters came to Lincoln. Philips had several incidents the most famous of which was dragging his girlfriend by her hair down a flight of stairs. Peters was a serial sexual abuser-- he felt entitled to put his hands on any woman he wanted. He got in trouble for that a bit, but mostly his rumors of sexual assault and rape were swept under the rug in Lincoln. But Tom Osborne couldn't ignore Philips' high profile arrest.

But when Osborne did let Philips back in for the championship game, Nebraska fans mostly defended him. They honestly trusted Osborne to make the correct judgement about Phillips' character, and once he did they were willing to go on as if nothing happened. There must be something about jumping up and down and screaming and wishing with every part of your being for an athlete to do well that makes a person willing ignore things that one would never ever ignore in someone else. I know good people whose judgment I trust who seem to act like Florio is the cause of the Griz problems, and the Griz players did very little if any wrong.

Side note about Lawrence Phillips -- I just read recently that he is in prison and recently murdered his cell mate. I'd say Osborne judged his character a just a bit wrongly.


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Re: Krakauer book on um/grizz/msla...

Post by PapaG » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:47 am

Bay Area Cat wrote:
Like I said, I would hate it if people judged all MSU grads by the worst behavior of a few of us.
So you're saying you haven't been to Missoula since Johnson was charged with rape, yet you're calling other posts by MSU fans"crazy."

What a pathetic response from such a "smart" guy.
Last edited by PapaG on Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:50 am, edited 2 times in total.


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Re: Krakauer book on um/grizz/msla...

Post by PapaG » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:49 am

Sportin' Life wrote:I think in general, BAC, you are right, but maybe not in this instance. Definitely if you hear something like 'fans of that team all have filthy mouths' it is crap, but there is a real 'circling of the wagons' happening in Missoula. Right now there are a lot of good people in Griz nation that feel picked on by all of this, so naturally they have become insular. I can tell you first hand, that if you wear the Griz colors you are expected to hate Gwen Florio, and I think now Krakauer ... you are supposed to think those people have it out for the team and the fans. If you aren't a full believer in the idea that men are persecuted in this society, you are at least supposed to believe that what happened in Missoula was one of those rare cases where a person cried rape, so any insults hurled at the young woman, Krakauer, and Florio are allowed.

The whole thing reminds me of Nebraska football in the mid-90s. Nebraska fans had always gotten a bit of moral superiority through the 80s as they watched their rivals, Oklahoma win national championships. They took great pride in fielding tough teams without having the cockiness of Barry Switzer's (or Miami's) teams. Leading them was the pious never cursing, aw shucks farmboy Tom Osborne. Sure, there were the steroid rumors, but other than that most people thought of Nebraska teams as good wholesome salt of the earth types. But in the mid nineties players like Lawrence Philips and Christian Peters came to Lincoln. Philips had several incidents the most famous of which was dragging his girlfriend by her hair down a flight of stairs. Peters was a serial sexual abuser-- he felt entitled to put his hands on any woman he wanted. He got in trouble for that a bit, but mostly his rumors of sexual assault and rape were swept under the rug in Lincoln. But Tom Osborne couldn't ignore Philips' high profile arrest.

But when Osborne did let Philips back in for the championship game, Nebraska fans mostly defended him. They honestly trusted Osborne to make the correct judgement about Phillips' character, and once he did they were willing to go on as if nothing happened. There must be something about jumping up and down and screaming and wishing with every part of your being for an athlete to do well that makes a person willing ignore things that one would never ever ignore in someone else. I know good people whose judgment I trust who seem to act like Florio is the cause of the Griz problems, and the Griz players did very little if any wrong.

Side note about Lawrence Phillips -- I just read recently that he is in prison and recently murdered his cell mate. I'd say Osborne judged his character a just a bit wrongly.
I actually do care about Griz athletics, because my family is closely associated with them. You typed a lot of truth in this post, but don't expect BAC to respond to them.

He's more about dumb grudges on a message board than he is about reality.


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Re: Krakauer book on um/grizz/msla...

Post by AlphaGriz1 » Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:35 am

Bay Area Cat wrote:What's crazy is to attribute the worst traits of a few people from a group over the entire group. I would hate it if people judged all MSU grads by the worst behaviors of a few of us.

egriz is not the voice of the entire UM fanbase. Fortunately, Bobcatnation.com is also not the voice of the entire Bobcat fanbase.
Its fair to judge the Griz fan base by eGriz, because 90% of the people that post there are 100% retarded and how they hit submit is a question for Hawking. BY FAR the Griz fan base is the most obnoxious, loud, look at me bunch of has beens in the FCS nothing is close. Most of Griz nation still talks about the "flagship" as being relevant but they are bad at math because its been 15 years since we have been relevant. Those idiots want to compare programs with NDSU when there is nothing to compare. NDSU has 20 National Championships at multiple levels, they have been FCS for 6 years? and won 4 National Championships.

Even as cocky as NDSU fans are (and they should be) they cant come close to the arrogance and idiocy that Griz nation churns out.

Look at "fans" like PlayaRape, UM75 and Wahlberg, they are leading the pitchfork brigade with their head in the sand and acting like all the negative attention in Missoula is a blight against their personal welfare. The attention in Missoula is DESERVED and EARNED, lots of mismanagement to go around, ODay, Hauck, Maes, Lucero, Foley etc

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Re: Krakauer book on um/grizz/msla...

Post by seataccat » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:48 pm

PapaG wrote:[

I actually do care about Griz athletics, because my family is closely associated with them. You typed a lot of truth in this post, but don't expect BAC to respond to them.

He's more about dumb grudges on a message board than he is about reality.
I think BAC gets tired of posting a logical train of thought only to be responded to with the latest in right wing talking points parroted from cable TV or talk radio. I can't speak for him but I am sure he has a hard time taking most of the people on here serious as far as debating skills. Most have no idea when they've had there peckers drug through the dirt metaphorically and should put their tail between their legs and shut up. Ring a bell PapaG?


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